Cheaper option to disable ESS

[Jeeperjamie]

If the ESS doesn't cut the engine off, the alternator powers the systems in the Jeep. Also, the starter lives a much easier life.

Reading through this, maybe the 50th thread I have read regarding the Stop/Start systems, I wonder if anybody has tried to disable the stop/start via the brake sensor. Ah sh!t, I've got to study now.

I put almost 200,000 miles on a BMW with ESS and we never disabled it when we drove it and I never had to replace a starter. I think they might of thought of that before engineering it. Have you ever read or heard of a situation where someone had to replace a starter because of it?

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[Andy29847]

I put almost 200,000 miles on a BMW with ESS and we never disabled it when we drove it and I never had to replace a starter. I think they might of thought of that before engineering it. Have you ever read or heard of a situation where someone had to replace a starter because of it?

No, but common sense tells me any automotive part has a designed in life cycle. Yes, there are always exceptions. Some parts last a million miles. Some parts break the day you leave the showroom. Regarding starters, their life is probably measured in cycles, not miles or years.

You seem to give great credit to automotive designers, engineers, and manufactures. While I agree they do some amazing things, some of their stuff doesn't turn out so well. Obviously, the Jeep Stop/Start system is headed for the "not so well" category. That is why we have threads about the system day after day.

 

[FitfulGoat]

No, but common sense tells me any automotive part has a designed in life cycle. Yes, there are always exceptions. Some parts last a million miles. Some parts break the day you leave the showroom. Regarding starters, their life is probably measured in cycles, not miles or years.

You seem to give great credit to automotive designers, engineers, and manufactures. While I agree they do some amazing things, some of their stuff doesn't turn out so well. Obviously, the Jeep Stop/Start system is headed for the "not so well" category. That is why we have threads about the system day after day.

In what way is the ESS on the Jeep inferior in design? And please avoid blanket and emotional responses like “look at the comments on this board” as this is a small representation of the larger population.

ESS isn’t a poorly designed or engineered system. It functions perfectly fine within the limitations of any battery system (which is what most people gripe about)

Also try googling electronic start stop removal and you will see ads for Ford, Subaru, Volkswagen, etc. The problem to me seems more like a demographical dynamic with a portion of the population hating the function.

 

[billfraley]

In what way is the ESS on the Jeep inferior in design? And please avoid blanket and emotional responses like “look at the comments on this board” as this is a small representation of the larger population.

ESS isn’t a poorly designed or engineered system. It functions perfectly fine within the limitations of any battery system (which is what most people gripe about)

Also try googling electronic start stop removal and you will see ads for Ford, Subaru, Volkswagen, etc. The problem to me seems more like a demographical dynamic with a portion of the population hating the function.

Agreed, but the battery is probably the worst part of the design. They should be using lithium batteries for this function, but cost assures that they do not.

 

[Blade1668]

I put almost 200,000 miles on a BMW with ESS and we never disabled it when we drove it and I never had to replace a starter. I think they might of thought of that before engineering it. Have you ever read or heard of a situation where someone had to replace a starter because of it?

Yes there has been many many different threads on this ESS.
You should have seen the threads years ago when the XJ was killed off, the "new fangled" coil springs TJ then the JK (the hate it got with 3.8 P.O.S.) especially killing off the 4.0 engine.
Not due to "ESS" in 4 other Jeeps, at 100000 miles up areas. In the same vehicle's only the alternator once that was due to them not liking running under muddy water and killing the bearings. My LJ starter gave up back in 2016 under 200000 miles. My MJ in 1999 A common denominator on it (MJ) was being driven short distances then shut off started then drove 5 miles shut off. At the time my "work" commute was total of 7.5 miles or less there and home or less, heck the time to go fishing it would be maybe 10 to 25 miles round trip then. With intermittent road trips of 500 to 1500 miles to visit people, Scuba diving trips, ect.

This sounds like a decent solution a lot of the time.

FYI. In no way is or was my replies a hit on you or the part you located and informed all of us too. There is many different things on the "new Jeeps" let alone new vehicles I don't like.

 

[Andy29847]

In what way is the ESS on the Jeep inferior in design? And please avoid blanket and emotional responses like “look at the comments on this board” as this is a small representation of the larger population.

ESS isn’t a poorly designed or engineered system. It functions perfectly fine within the limitations of any battery system (which is what most people gripe about)

The number one thing I have found with the Jeep Start/Stop system is it starts throwing alarms when the batteries are ~12.4v. A battery at 12.4 is still in the first half of it's useful life. Oh yeah, THE BATTERIES ARE PART OF THE SYSTEM. Jeep believes this too as deduced by the fact they offer warranty coverage on the batteries. One more thing I can think of right now. If you go to the dealer for a stop/start issue, it is likely to take several visits to resolve the issues. That has been my experience (scheduled Monday to go back for the 4th time). Frequent and difficult repair are not attributes of a well-designed system. On wait. I thought of another issue. Have you ever read so much on forums about how to jump start a car or how to properly connect a battery charger? I haven't. I love my Jeeps. I wish it was easier to change things like tire pressure alarms, type of bulb used in lights, tire size, etc. than the way they have designed it.

Also try googling electronic start stop removal and you will see ads for Ford, Subaru, Volkswagen, etc. The problem to me seems more like a demographical dynamic with a portion of the population hating the function.

Are you really using the "everybody does it" excuse?"

 

[Jeeperjamie]

No, but common sense tells me any automotive part has a designed in life cycle. Yes, there are always exceptions. Some parts last a million miles. Some parts break the day you leave the showroom. Regarding starters, their life is probably measured in cycles, not miles or years.

You seem to give great credit to automotive designers, engineers, and manufactures. While I agree they do some amazing things, some of their stuff doesn't turn out so well. Obviously, the Jeep Stop/Start system is headed for the "not so well" category. That is why we have threads about the system day after day.

We have threads about it because people are to lazy to push a button and turn it off when they get a jeep and try to find ways around doing that. I haven't read a thread where the ESS has caused damage to a jeep or starter, just mostly people trying to delete it or the battery that powers it, or the system. Then later on you read about a lot for the same people complaining about battery issues or warning lights showing up on their dash. Hey I got a idea, push the button.

 

[FitfulGoat]

Agreed, but the battery is probably the worst part of the design. They should be using lithium batteries for this function, but cost assures that they do not.

Yes, cost is likely the largest culprit in the choice of batteries but they still fall in line with most automotive applications these days.

Aside from changing batteries more often/the convenience, I would bet there is little cost savings to consumer or manufacture to fully adopt lithium battery technologies at this point in time.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Agreed, but the battery is probably the worst part of the design. They should be using lithium batteries for this function, but cost assures that they do not.

I'll agree with this, and that's mostly the issue with the system. My main battery went out at 53,000 miles, 2-1/2 yrs and since replacing it I haven't had anymore issues 12,000 miles later.

 

[FitfulGoat]

The number one thing I have found with the Jeep Start/Stop system is it starts throwing alarms when the batteries are ~12.4v. A battery at 12.4 is still in the first half of it's useful life. Oh yeah, THE BATTERIES ARE PART OF THE SYSTEM. Jeep believes this too as deduced by the fact they offer warranty coverage on the batteries. One more thing I can think of right now. If you go to the dealer for a stop/start issue, it is likely to take several visits to resolve the issues. That has been my experience (scheduled Monday to go back for the 4th time). Frequent and difficult repair are not attributes of a well-designed system. On wait. I thought of another issue. Have you ever read so much on forums about how to jump start a car or how to properly connect a battery charger? I haven't. I love my Jeeps. I wish it was easier to change things like tire pressure alarms, type of bulb used in lights, tire size, etc. than the way they have designed it.



Are you really using the "everybody does it" excuse?"

What does the battery system being under warranty have to do with the engineering of the ESS system? Last I checked these came with bumper to bumper warranties…

“ If you go to the dealer for a stop/start issue, it is likely to take several visits to resolve the issues.” Anecdotal evidence of your singular experience… same can be said for death wobble… guess the suspension on every solid front axle vehicle is a garbage design.

And no, not an “everyone does it excuse” just pointing out that this isn’t isolated to the engineering of Jeeps ESS and that this is clearly evidence of a hate for the function by a portion of the population.

 

[Gatorized]

I'll agree with this, and that's mostly the issue with the system. My main battery went out at 53,000 miles, 2-1/2 yrs and since replacing it I haven't had anymore issues 12,000 miles later.

Sounds like the average battery in any vehicle in the USofA… most of those vehicles without ESS.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

The number one thing I have found with the Jeep Start/Stop system is it starts throwing alarms when the batteries are ~12.4v. A battery at 12.4 is still in the first half of it's useful life. Oh yeah, THE BATTERIES ARE PART OF THE SYSTEM. Jeep believes this too as deduced by the fact they offer warranty coverage on the batteries. One more thing I can think of right now. If you go to the dealer for a stop/start issue, it is likely to take several visits to resolve the issues. That has been my experience (scheduled Monday to go back for the 4th time). Frequent and difficult repair are not attributes of a well-designed system. On wait. I thought of another issue. Have you ever read so much on forums about how to jump start a car or how to properly connect a battery charger? I haven't. I love my Jeeps. I wish it was easier to change things like tire pressure alarms, type of bulb used in lights, tire size, etc. than the way they have designed it.



Are you really using the "everybody does it" excuse?"

I guess if you go to the wrong dealership. Mine found the problem and fix it first try and that was with me being pretty sure it was the small battery causing my issues. I was wrong and would fixed the wrong issue had I not taken mine in and got in properly diagnosed. I'll agree some dealerships take longer than others but in my experience with the one I use, they are top notch when it comes to service and selling vehicles. That's why I've been doing business with them for almost 20yrs.

 

[billfraley]

We have threads about it because people are to lazy to push a button and turn it off when they get a jeep and try to find ways around doing that. I haven't read a thread where the ESS has caused damage to a jeep or starter, just mostly people trying to delete it or the battery that powers it, or the system. Then later on you read about a lot for the same people complaining about battery issues or warning lights showing up on their dash. Hey I got a idea, push the button.

As someone who has owned Ford, Ram and Jeep vehicles with this technology, every forum I have ever joined has people using a device to automate pressing the button. This is such a low risk action, I have never seen anyone legitimately prove these types of methods have caused any damage.

Bad batteries and trying to actually defeat the system have caused some people a ton of grief. This is why I chose a button defeat vs a system defeat.

 

[redriderjf87]

I put almost 200,000 miles on a BMW with ESS and we never disabled it when we drove it and I never had to replace a starter. I think they might of thought of that before engineering it. Have you ever read or heard of a situation where someone had to replace a starter because of it?

Your starter has X cycles before it fails. The more you cycle it, the sooner it will fail.

 

[billfraley]

Your starter has X cycles before it fails. The more you cycle it, the sooner it will fail.

This is true, but whether it matters or not is the question. I had my first stop/start vehicle in 2015. I still haven’t heard of any widespread issues with premature starter failure. I am sure the manufacturers stress test these parts for reliability.

For me, I could live with it if it wasn’t causing grief with my amp. I just don’t need another thing to press every time I drive. I even automate my phone hotspot for the head unit to get Internet.

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