Death Wobble Factors?

[Caraholic]

I have no experience with that setup but others here do and like it.

Honestly, it's over the top for what I am doing and way more expensive than what I need just to change the tire size (before someone jumps on me about it, I know that it can do other things but I just don't need to do those other things). I'd rather put that money towards, oh I don't know, new tires, steering upgrades, etc.

@MojaveMat @Ghosts40

I should also note here that a lot of the steering components that tend to fail causing death wobble can be upgraded to much beefier parts which will likely never reach a point where death wobble enters the picture.

You have to remember that the stock components were engineered to provide a realistic service life for a stock vehicle. As soon as you put bigger tires on them, you increase the weight and leverage exerted upon all of those stock components. Then when you take them out to play in the rocks you really make them work. This will likely wear them out faster than if the stock components were only used to crawl to the top level of the mall parking structure.

Personally, when something like a rod end on my tie rod or draglink finally does start to wear out, I'll move to something like the RPM Steering 2.5 Ton Aluminum Steering Kit. The rod ends are rated for a 2.5 Ton application which is waaaaay more heavy duty than the stock parts. Same with things like ball joints...the after market replacement parts are usually way overbuilt and in many cases cost no more than the cheaper stock parts (thanks Jeep/FCA/Stellantis/whatever you call yourself today).

At the end of the day, most of this work can all be done by yourself and replaced with better than stock parts. My strategy is not to simply run out and replace things right now, rather to plan for the eventual upgrade with better components as things wear out. I've done that with both my Wranglers and over the years they now have all new Dynatrac ball joints and full Yeti/SteerSmarts steering setups and Chromoly axle shafts.

I like this thread and I like your recommendation of strong parts. I’d love to see a dedicated thread perhaps even titled; built like a battleship; front end blast proof parts.
It sure would be great to see the recommended best parts listed here where the junk never makes the list and is screened out by all the commenters.
Note; I know we should all do research and there’s other threads but just that info would help so many in one place….
I’m always reading this subject as front end issues are my phobia….

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[cafecito]

So how hard is it to replace any of these front end component bushings? is this a DIY or something that a shop has to do?

If you're a construction manager, I assure you, nothing in the suspension of a Jeep is going to be over your head. If you can safely jack your vehicle up, loosen some nuts and bolts, replace the part, and torque everything back to factory spec, you'll be fine.

If my cushy office-job-having ass can manage to install a lift kit in his garage, you have no excuses.

 

[Ghosts40]

LOL!!!! Yeah you're probably right! Thanks for the laugh ??

 

[HooliganActual]

I like this thread and I like your recommendation of strong parts. I’d love to see a dedicated thread perhaps even titled; built like a battleship; front end blast proof parts.
It sure would be great to see the recommended best parts listed here where the junk never makes the list and is screened out by all the commenters.
Note; I know we should all do research and there’s other threads but just that info would help so many in one place….
I’m always reading this subject as front end issues are my phobia….

Thanks for the kind words. (Not many of them on the internet…lol)

You know, the real challenge with a thread like you've mentioned is that it's the internet. Everyone on here will say that such and such is the best part, even if it maybe isn't. For all you know, the stuff I've recommended is junk; and in all honesty, it might be. The only reason I even found out about RPM Steering is that I know that some drivers at KoH were using their stuff. I figured it might be good stuff if guys will race on it through trails I wouldn't even consider doing. (Doesn't hurt that they are about 3 blocks from where I live...lol)

In fact, there might even be what I consider junk that someone else has had installed problem free for years. I think that there would be a lot of subjectivity in all of it. Then you'd be left wading through what may or may not be someone's brand loyalty, experience under less severe use, etc.

Personally, what I find useful if I'm evaluating an upgrade, mod, whatever is to search that item on this forum and see what kind of comments (which are nothing more than user reviews) come back. You can generally discern the good from the bad and there are guys here who have doing “Jeep Stuff” for many years and are usually happy to help.

And if you aren’t internet-shy, create a thread and ask for opinions on the parts you’re interested in.

 

[jeepwaver]

Death wobble is real.

 

[Coldtoes]

Thanks for the kind words. (Not many of them on the internet…lol)

You know, the real challenge with a thread like you've mentioned is that it's the internet. Everyone on here will say that such and such is the best part, even if it maybe isn't. For all you know, the stuff I've recommended is junk; and in all honesty, it might be. The only reason I even found out about RPM Steering is that I know that some drivers at KoH were using their stuff. I figured it might be good stuff if guys will race on it through trails I wouldn't even consider doing. (Doesn't hurt that they are about 3 blocks from where I live...lol)

In fact, there might even be what I consider junk that someone else has had installed problem free for years. I think that there would be a lot of subjectivity in all of it. Then you'd be left wading through what may or may not be someone's brand loyalty, experience under less severe use, etc.

Personally, what I find useful if I'm evaluating an upgrade, mod, whatever is to search that item on this forum and see what kind of comments (which are nothing more than user reviews) come back. You can generally discern the good from the bad and there are guys here who have doing “Jeep Stuff” for many years and are usually happy to help.

And if you aren’t internet-shy, create a thread and ask for opinions on the parts you’re interested in.

Well said. I've been reading a lot of the threads on death wobble and it is impossible to tell "XXXX" brand or "YYYYY" specific component model is better or worse than another based solely on user experience. What we need but won't get is durability testing in a lab environment where components could be compared side by side without other influencing factors. How about this, if I win a billion $+ lottery I'll build a lab and we can test the crap out of everything side by side by side.

One thing I have considered is the value in using all one brand components. Just to keep things simpler where the components have been designed to work together. I've been considering all Teraflex steering components to go with the teraflex lift I'm planning. Not that there is anything wrong with Steersmarts, Yeti, or the many other brands. It's just that at least with a single brand they've been designed and tested together.

Just my two cents...

 

[HooliganActual]

How about this, if I win a billion $+ lottery I'll build a lab and we can test the crap out of everything side by side by side.

We, the internet, shall hold you to that!!! LOL

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's just that at least with a single brand they've been designed and tested together.

Wish it worked that way. As long as they meet specs beyond the OEM specs, there's really no "working together" to it. There are too many factors involved. You can put the best lift kit in the world on, all parts from the same company, and have problems - they can't account for your tires or wheels or specific settings.
It's not a matter of parts "working together". It's a matter of staying within certain parameters, making sure certain parts are "rigid" and won't bow or flex under stress. But beyond that, they can't account for every possible tire, wheel and settings combination, nor can they account for the fact that a 2.5" lift on Jeep A ends up at 2.0" on Jeep B and 3.0" on Jeep C.
Only a spacer lift can guarantee an exact lift amount.
It's also up to the installer to ensure that all of the parts put things back into the basic design parameters - parallel control arms (to each other and the ground), caster, and so on. the owner can F it all up with wheels and tires, no matter how great the lift kit is.
Make a massive change in scrub radius by using wheels of a different backset, or even just a huge tire size difference and all of a sudden your toe setting isn't going to be correct and you have wobble. Too much caster and you get caster wobble.
Wish it was as simple as choosing a quality lift with all parts from the same company.
You can test until the day you die - and your best efforts when put on another Jeep out there - may fail.

 

[Gizmo]

It takes time but you can usually find the best replacement parts by reading the forums . The second part is to determine who on the forums actually knows from experience vs reading advertisements . Most front end components can be replaced with better aftermarket components . The key is figuring out who wants to sound like they know and are interested in a high post number and those who do know and have dealt with keeps for a long time . Read many forums and see what brands seem to be used most often . With TJs I pretty much stuck with Currie, Metalcloak ,Savvy and PSC for suspension and steering components. It may cost more but never had death wobble . Trick is stay ahead of it . Dry steering test have been a method that has always kept me a head of DW. I use common sensible amounts of Back spacings not the wheels that make tires stick out for no good reasons

 

[Coldtoes]

Wish it worked that way. As long as they meet specs beyond the OEM specs, there's really no "working together" to it. There are too many factors involved. You can put the best lift kit in the world on, all parts from the same company, and have problems - they can't account for your tires or wheels or specific settings.
It's not a matter of parts "working together". It's a matter of staying within certain parameters, making sure certain parts are "rigid" and won't bow or flex under stress. But beyond that, they can't account for every possible tire, wheel and settings combination, nor can they account for the fact that a 2.5" lift on Jeep A ends up at 2.0" on Jeep B and 3.0" on Jeep C.
Only a spacer lift can guarantee an exact lift amount.
It's also up to the installer to ensure that all of the parts put things back into the basic design parameters - parallel control arms (to each other and the ground), caster, and so on. the owner can F it all up with wheels and tires, no matter how great the lift kit is.
Make a massive change in scrub radius by using wheels of a different backset, or even just a huge tire size difference and all of a sudden your toe setting isn't going to be correct and you have wobble. Too much caster and you get caster wobble.
Wish it was as simple as choosing a quality lift with all parts from the same company.
You can test until the day you die - and your best efforts when put on another Jeep out there - may fail.

Yeah, I didn't intend to imply using a single brand would solve the all the issues or entirely prevent them. My thoughts are that it would eliminate one of the many variables and reduce the chances of issues. There are so many posts about X brand tie rod, with Y brand track bar, and Z brand wheels... it just adds more complication to the already complicated issue. If I setup my rig with a single brand lift, steering, and wheels (think Icon / Teraflex) and use the most common of tire sizes (35/37) with standard widths (11.5/12.5) and stay away from the unusual (42" x 15.5" as an extreme example) the likelihood of issues should be greatly reduced.

With regards to testing, one of the causes frequently discussed is worn connections. My thoughts were that every brand advertises their joints as being the best in design and materials, but there is no way for the consumer to really know which is marketing fluff and which is real. My thoughts with testing would be comparing designed angles of connections (see MetalCloak's assertion they have their control arms aligned correctly where others don't, image attached). Which would/could cause faster wear and potential contributing factor to wobble. It's all just an impossible dream for me to geek out on, but wouldn't happen in reality due to the costs involved. My point was just to, in theory, test parts and theories to see what really makes a difference.

You mentioned backspacing, it's been said too much is a contributing factor but not HOW much is too much. I get it, there are factors that change how much is too much, it just means this is a complicated mess to figure out. It is hard for someone not in-the-know to get clear direction. I'm thinking a basic guideline to evaluating/preventing wobble would be helpful.
(This is likely wrong, just a made up example)
1. Check control arms, tie rod, track bar, drag link and sway bar link joints, correctly torqued and no wobble.
2. Minimize scrub radius to less than XX:XX, (typically wheel offset of < XXX, with 11.5"/12.5" width tires and 7.5"-9.5" width wheels)
3. Lifts >4" should be long arm kits to reduce control arm angle
4. Axle should have drive shaft port near parallel to ground
4. What else?

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