Diesel Rubicon Payload

[zamboniman]

Picking up a diesel rubicon. It has the normal bumper NOT steel so saves some weight there. For what its worth the payload sticker is 1000#. May help someone as when shopping I couldn't find much actual info other than 1 example that was 900# biggest thing I can see would likely be he heavy bumper package.

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[PackMule]

Picking up a diesel rubicon. It has the normal bumper NOT steel so saves some weight there. For what its worth the payload sticker is 1000#. May help someone as when shopping I couldn't find much actual info other than 1 example that was 900# biggest thing I can see would likely be he heavy bumper package.

Yup, Jeep really hasn't had any info out there on diesel payload, possibly because it varies so much based upon the specific vehicle build... which really sucked for guys like me that ordered early without any vehicles on the lot to verify. There are a couple of other threads on trailering, and diesel vs. max tow that folks with diesels have reported their door sticker payloads, which have varied between 1300# on a Sport Max Tow, to a little over 1000# on an Overland, to my 940# on a Rubicon...even with a plastic bumper.

Don't know why mine would be so much lower than yours. I have a hard top, spray in bed liner, cargo management system, tow package, convenience package, 110V outlet in the bed, leather seats, Mud Terrains, each of which could add a couple lb. each, but not sure how that would add up to 60lb.

How is yours optioned, other than the plastic bumper? Do you have a soft top, or something that would be significantly lighter than mine?

 

[zamboniman]

Mine has AT tire.. could be that simple.

 

[PackMule]

Mine has AT tire.. could be that simple.

Hmm, could be. Are yours Falken Wildpeak AT3 285/70/R17 ? My stock I believe were Falken WIldpeak M/T in the same size. According the the Falken website specs, these ATs are 50lb ea and the M/Ts are 61lb each. So, yeah, that would be 50lb difference. Ive since put on Mickey Thompson ATZ/3 35x12.5x17's on, and they are 66lb, so the Wildpeak MTs are almost as heavy as my 35 AT hybrids.

 

[danielspivey]

My payload on my max tow is 1583.... crazy how much less the diesel is, especially with the more powerful engine.

 

[PackMule]

My payload on my max tow is 1583.... crazy how much less the diesel is, especially with the more powerful engine.

Yup, I appears that the beefiest JTs max out at GVWR of 6250 (Max Tow, Rubicon, etc.), regardless of gas or diesel. So the difference in build weight of the options results in difference in payload. In the case comparing your gas Max Tow and my JTRD, that's about 400# for the diesel engine, and 200# for Rubicon skids/rocker rails/lockers/sway disco/tires etc. The diesel also got Mojave's cast iron axle knuckles, so that's in that weight too.

I just wish they would have beefed up whatever else needed to be beefed (springs/shocks/breaks/etc) to bump the GVWR up higher for the diesel, thus preserving a reasonable payload.

 

[stickshifter]

Yup, Jeep really hasn't had any info out there on diesel payload, possibly because it varies so much based upon the specific vehicle build... which really sucked for guys like me that ordered early without any vehicles on the lot to verify. There are a couple of other threads on trailering, and diesel vs. max tow that folks with diesels have reported their door sticker payloads, which have varied between 1300# on a Sport Max Tow, to a little over 1000# on an Overland, to my 940# on a Rubicon...even with a plastic bumper.

Don't know why mine would be so much lower than yours. I have a hard top, spray in bed liner, cargo management system, tow package, convenience package, 110V outlet in the bed, leather seats, Mud Terrains, each of which could add a couple lb. each, but not sure how that would add up to 60lb.

How is yours optioned, other than the plastic bumper? Do you have a soft top, or something that would be significantly lighter than mine?

I posted this in a thread I started a few days ago, but I'll re-post here. Hope it is helpful:

This has probably already been done, but if not, here is a quick comparison of Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), Payload, and Curb Weight (in pounds) between a gas Gladiator Rubicon and an Ecodiesel Gladiator Rubicon. These numbers will vary depending on options. For example, both these vehicles were similarly spec'd from the factory (hard top, bumpers, etc.). If you had a soft top, curb weight would go down, and payload would go up. These numbers were provided by Brad, from Trail Recon, and I posted a link to his video under the table. He starts the video talking about JL Wranglers; he begins the Gladiator comparison at 11:57 in the video. In summary, payload in the diesel is 200 pounds less, and curb weight is 400 pounds more.

	Gas Gladiator Rubicon	Ecodiesel Gladiator Rubicon
GVWR	6,250	6,450
Payload	1,174	973
Curb Weight	5,076	5,477

Trail Recon Video

 

[PackMule]

...

	Gas Gladiator Rubicon	Ecodiesel Gladiator Rubicon
GVWR	6,250	6,450
Payload	1,174	973
Curb Weight	5,076	5,477

Trail Recon Video

Thanks for the post, and the link.

Trail Recon's video shows the issue that a lot of JT/JL Diesel early buyers are having, that the payload is a shortcoming.

So I stand corrected... FCA did bump up the GVWR on the Ecodiesel Rubi... just not enough to totally offset for the added weight of the diesel.

If 10% stiffer diesel springs and Mojave knuckles were enough to get 200lb of GVWR, I wonder what held them back from compensating for all 400lb of diesel weight? Would 15% springs have gotten it, or would they also have had to make bigger changes?
- stronger ring/pinion in the diffs?
- Chromoly shafts?
- Bigger breaks
... or is the diesel cooling limitation of the JT/JL radiator the show stopper?

I guess we'll never know, but as TrailRecon points out in his video, that 200lb is a big difference, the difference of whether he can take his family with him or not. So now he's selling his JT gas, and instead of doing a JT diesel he's building out a Power Wagon! (and presumably keeping his JL diesel for wheeling, or going on solo trips)

 

[CerOf]

The ring and pinion shoood be quite strong. They are 3.73 in an HD44. If like the 44s in wranglers going back to ‘09, the ring gears are thicker.
The 3.73 in the diesel means a larger pinion head than the 4.10.

 

[stickshifter]

Thanks for the post, and the link.

Trail Recon's video shows the issue that a lot of JT/JL Diesel early buyers are having, that the payload is a shortcoming.

So I stand corrected... FCA did bump up the GVWR on the Ecodiesel Rubi... just not enough to totally offset for the added weight of the diesel.

If 10% stiffer diesel springs and Mojave knuckles were enough to get 200lb of GVWR, I wonder what held them back from compensating for all 400lb of diesel weight? Would 15% springs have gotten it, or would they also have had to make bigger changes?
- stronger ring/pinion in the diffs?
- Chromoly shafts?
- Bigger breaks
... or is the diesel cooling limitation of the JT/JL radiator the show stopper?

I guess we'll never know, but as TrailRecon points out in his video, that 200lb is a big difference, the difference of whether he can take his family with him or not. So now he's selling his JT gas, and instead of doing a JT diesel he's building out a Power Wagon! (and presumably keeping his JL diesel for wheeling, or going on solo trips)

Yeah, Brad traded his JT for a Power Wagon! I've been on the fence for a while between the JT and the PW. Very different trucks in terms of size, but lots of commonalities (solid axles front & rear, lockers front & rear, sway-bar disconnect, manual transfer case, all-around awesomeness). Obviously the JT fits on trails here in Colorado much better than the PW, and that is a huge draw. The JT is also great for all kinds of other Jeep-specific reasons - its more fun to drive (I didn't say relaxing or quiet - just more "fun"), its got a manual transmission, etc. But you give up a lot choosing the JT over the PW (the PW is more comfortable on long trips, and has much more room). Comparing gas to gas, the 6.4 Hemi is much better than the 3.6 Pentastar. Comparing diesel to gas, the torque is awesome with the Ecodiesel, but all things considered (payload, emissions systems, DEF, short trips, really cold weather where I live), I'd rather have the 6.4 than the 3.0 Ecodiesel. I always end up daydreaming about a "relatively" affordable 5.7 Hemi option in the JT...

 

[ArloGuthroJeep]

FWIW my JTRD has a payload of #1080.

 

[PackMule]

The ring and pinion shoud be quite strong. They are 3.73 in an HD44. If like the 44s in wranglers going back to ‘09, the ring gears are thicker.
The 3.73 in the diesel means a larger pinion head than the 4.10.

Thanks. Good to hear.

So... probably cooling is the limiting factor.

... Obviously the JT fits on trails here in Colorado much better than the PW, ...

Yup, same to a degree here in Montana... and the PW wouldn't have fit in the garage of my log home, and I live on a hillside, so garage expansion was out of the question.

 

[PackMule]

FWIW my JTRD has a payload of #1080.

... Hmmm, #140 more than mine. Just out of curiosity, what was on your factory options? Would like to know what's pigging out my weight. Mine has:
- Hard Top
- Hardtop Headliner
- MT Tires
- Tow Package
- Cargo Mgmt
- Convenience Package
- Spray-in Bed Liner
- Leather Interior
- Cold Weather Group
- Engine Block Heater
- Uconnect 8.4 with premium audio (but not the bluetooth speaker)
- Remote keyless entry

 

[ArloGuthroJeep]

... Hmmm, #140 more than mine. Just out of curiosity, what was on your factory options? Would like to know what's pigging out my weight. Mine has:
- Hard Top
- Hardtop Headliner
- MT Tires
- Tow Package
- Cargo Mgmt
- Convenience Package
- Spray-in Bed Liner
- Leather Interior
- Cold Weather Group
- Engine Block Heater
- Uconnect 8.4 with premium audio (but not the bluetooth speaker)
- Remote keyless entry

- Cold weather
- LED
- 8.4 nav + stereo
- Safety Group
- ACC
- Aux switches
- Leather
- Proximity Keyless
- Hard Top
- AT Tires

Full details here: https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6JJTBM8ML540663

 

[PackMule]

- Cold weather
- LED
- 8.4 nav + stereo
- Safety Group
- ACC
- Aux switches
- Leather
- Proximity Keyless
- Hard Top
- AT Tires

Full details here: https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6JJTBM8ML540663

Thanks for the list, and details. So #140 difference in our builds...
...you did a Freedom Panel Storage Bag Delete... so that has to be the weight difference! ??

No... REAL differences were
You had (but I did not)
- Safety Group,
- ACC
... these electronics probably added no more than #10

I had (but you did not)
- M/T tires (this adds 10lb per tire - #50 Total, according to Wildpeak website)
- Convenience Package
- Cargo Mgmt (bed rails, & I believe this adds the inverter for 115v ac plug)
- Spray in bed liner
- Engine Block Heater
- Hard Top Headliner
- Front facing Trail Camera

Hard to believe it, but those last 6 items added #90+ !?! Especially since other threads I've seen speculate that the Engine Block Heater is really on all diesels, except for the plug. So the spray in bead liner, 115v inverter, and Headliners weigh almost #90!?! Head scratcher..

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