Weights, payload.

[Josh00333]

Hi all, lurker, finally joined up.

I've been looking reading and looking more. But I have to say the payload is an issue on this platform. Struggling to solidify to one due to it.

I'm looking at a 3.0l diesel and against what most say it's actually got the highest payload rating, save Max Tow, over the automatic gassers. 1325lb for the Sports, I would hazard a guess it's more in line with the Overland once you add options like leather seats, safety packages etc. The Overland has 1275 payload.

Lets look at a load out on a diesel Overland:
Payload: +1275
-650 trailer 10% of a loaded rig
-50 hitch
-200 driver
-126 fuel
-100 bed cover/soft topper/Truck junk

+149 remaining

Now that's assuming (ya know what that means) a loaded trailer. But also that the payload off the lot is correct, not accounting any accessories or all the shiny bits Jeeps get loaded with (lets not even look at winch and bumpers). Any one actually scale weigh there jeep?

Add wife, kids, dogs, bikes, wife's purse. How is any one actually loading the rigs, or is every one just ignoring the payload rating?


Now looking at the gawr there is a lot of room on the platform, F 3200 R 3750 total 6950 take away the Overland base weight 5041 leaves 1909 "payload" vs the listed one. Note the front gawr on the D's is bumped to 3200 and even 3400 on the rubi. Jeep did something on the suspension for the d's. Any one know the difference on the Rubi diesel from a gas?

Side note the diesel is not that much heavier than the gas, in ready old post every one was saying 600+ pounds etc. But if you look at the Rubi Gas vs Diesel it's only 171 pound difference in base weight. Other trims is more, back to the fawr jeep obviously beefed up other parts, added weight, due to the diesel, over all on an overland the total is 365, but even with that the payload rating is upped from gas of 1120 to diesel of 1275 with a gvwr bump of 700 lbs also.

I'm going to throw this out there, I noted the gas manual payload of 1700, Jeep just toss this out there to claim "highest payload in class"? Nothing on paper makes since that this would have magickly more payload. Same gawr, base weight is only 40 less than the auto. It's got the lowest of all tow ratings, what gives here?

Sponsored

 

[kevman65]

They can say anything they want online and on paper.

The little sticker on the driver door is what you have and what you are "legally" stuck with.

 

[MrJeep]

It has always been the case with the Glady that maxing out payload weight has an impact on hitting payload max very easily. You can see it is not really designed to be fully loaded in both trailer weight and payload weight.
That said, you hit the nail on the head, many people are probably ignoring the payload number at least by a few hundred pounds here or there, which, from an engineering perspective is probably not a big deal. However, the keyboard jockeys love to warn you that your insurance company will be upset if they find out you overloaded the vehicle. This is probably overblown as in 25 years on forums I've never heard of this but I have directly experience the opposite. My parents wrecked their small SUV by grossly overloading the tow capacity with a boat and the insurance company did not bat an eye. Similar story with an idiot friend. The insurance fraud people have bigger fish to fry. That said, the stupid will be punished.

 

[syreeves]

Hi all, lurker, finally joined up.

I've been looking reading and looking more. But I have to say the payload is an issue on this platform. Struggling to solidify to one due to it.

I'm looking at a 3.0l diesel and against what most say it's actually got the highest payload rating, save Max Tow, over the automatic gassers. 1325lb for the Sports, I would hazard a guess it's more in line with the Overland once you add options like leather seats, safety packages etc. The Overland has 1275 payload.

Lets look at a load out on a diesel Overland:
Payload: +1275
-650 trailer 10% of a loaded rig
-50 hitch
-200 driver
-126 fuel
-100 bed cover/soft topper/Truck junk

+149 remaining

Now that's assuming (ya know what that means) a loaded trailer. But also that the payload off the lot is correct, not accounting any accessories or all the shiny bits Jeeps get loaded with (lets not even look at winch and bumpers). Any one actually scale weigh there jeep?

Add wife, kids, dogs, bikes, wife's purse. How is any one actually loading the rigs, or is every one just ignoring the payload rating?


Now looking at the gawr there is a lot of room on the platform, F 3200 R 3750 total 6950 take away the Overland base weight 5041 leaves 1909 "payload" vs the listed one. Note the front gawr on the D's is bumped to 3200 and even 3400 on the rubi. Jeep did something on the suspension for the d's. Any one know the difference on the Rubi diesel from a gas?

Side note the diesel is not that much heavier than the gas, in ready old post every one was saying 600+ pounds etc. But if you look at the Rubi Gas vs Diesel it's only 171 pound difference in base weight. Other trims is more, back to the fawr jeep obviously beefed up other parts, added weight, due to the diesel, over all on an overland the total is 365, but even with that the payload rating is upped from gas of 1120 to diesel of 1275 with a gvwr bump of 700 lbs also.

I'm going to throw this out there, I noted the gas manual payload of 1700, Jeep just toss this out there to claim "highest payload in class"? Nothing on paper makes since that this would have magickly more payload. Same gawr, base weight is only 40 less than the auto. It's got the lowest of all tow ratings, what gives here?

Hi - i don't understand a couple of thing about your list of weights for payload - you have 650 for the trailer - is that weight on the hitch? If so what is the 50lbs of "hitch" - are you talking about the actual drawbar and receiver? Isn't that included on the vehicle weight i.e. not part of your "payload"? Also - you have included gas - I thought the payload rating assuming all fluids already onboard?

 

[Josh00333]

Hi - i don't understand a couple of thing about your list of weights for payload - you have 650 for the trailer - is that weight on the hitch? If so what is the 50lbs of "hitch" - are you talking about the actual drawbar and receiver? Isn't that included on the vehicle weight i.e. not part of your "payload"? Also - you have included gas - I thought the payload rating assuming all fluids already onboard?

650 is the tongue weight from the trailer. The hitch weight is your weight distribution hitch (some weigh more than 50lbs). The big heavy steel part that goes into your receiver the trailer hooks to.

The hitch that's bolted to the truck is part of the vehicle weight. BUT that is an option, it may be one of those things that increases the curb weight and reduces payload.

I'm not sure, on fuel, I could not find any note on Jeep.com or any place if it was or was not included. My understanding is fluids; oil coolant etc are.

 

[brianinca]

The Husky WDH we have is 100 lbs, works great but I'm considering an Anderson because that does only weigh 50 lbs. As you note, 50 lbs matters!

650 is the tongue weight from the trailer. The hitch weight is your weight distribution hitch (some weigh more than 50lbs). The big heavy steel part that goes into your receiver the trailer hooks to.

The hitch that's bolted to the truck is part of the vehicle weight. BUT that is an option, it may be one of those things that increases the curb weight and reduces payload.

I'm not sure, on fuel, I could not find any note on Jeep.com or any place if it was or was not included. My understanding is fluids; oil coolant etc are.

 

[Riccochet]

It's generally a good idea to follow weight ratings. It's not for your axles, or getting going. But emergency stopping. The platform is only capable of controlling so much.

 

[Josh00333]

Exactly, that's why I'm looking at them. The Q is if Jeep says X can carry 1700 pounds what are the actual differences in that model (to your point, breaks) vs the models that have a lower rating. Or is it all just a bunch of corporate bs? I suspect the latter.

I've looked and can't find detailed parts breakdowns of the models to easily see what exactly is different.

We know Max tow and Rubies have different axles, but what's different in the3.6 overland vs 3.0?

What is different in the manual Sport w 1700 pounds of pay load and the same trim with an auto at 1100 with only a 40 pound curb weight difference? They put the max tow springs in the manual? That's the detail I would like to figure out.

It's generally a good idea to follow weight ratings. It's not for your axles, or getting going. But emergency stopping. The platform is only capable of controlling so much.

 

[MrJeep]

Exactly, that's why I'm looking at them. The Q is if Jeep says X can carry 1700 pounds what are the actual differences in that model (to your point, breaks) vs the models that have a lower rating. Or is it all just a bunch of corporate bs? I suspect the latter.

I've looked and can't find detailed parts breakdowns of the models to easily see what exactly is different.

We know Max tow and Rubies have different axles, but what's different in the3.6 overland vs 3.0?

What is different in the manual Sport w 1700 pounds of pay load and the same trim with an auto at 1100 with only a 40 pound curb weight difference? They put the max tow springs in the manual? That's the detail I would like to figure out.

Mostly the spring and shock rates.
The brakes are all the same. The slight engine weight difference as mentioned earlier. Gears might be a factor.

It is all about safety of handling and braking but remember its not like falling through ice where all of sudden too much weight is too much. It is a massive combination of factors that slowly erode safety as you exceed the limits.
You can take off an land a Boeing 747 overweight no problem, the issue is it gets less and less safe as you go above max and gets into probabilities and statistics more than

 

[Riccochet]

Exactly, that's why I'm looking at them. The Q is if Jeep says X can carry 1700 pounds what are the actual differences in that model (to your point, breaks) vs the models that have a lower rating. Or is it all just a bunch of corporate bs? I suspect the latter.

I've looked and can't find detailed parts breakdowns of the models to easily see what exactly is different.

We know Max tow and Rubies have different axles, but what's different in the3.6 overland vs 3.0?

What is different in the manual Sport w 1700 pounds of pay load and the same trim with an auto at 1100 with only a 40 pound curb weight difference? They put the max tow springs in the manual? That's the detail I would like to figure out.

How you calculate payload is combined axle ratings minus sprung weight. The more options and crap you have in your JT the less payload capacity. The 3.0 weighs more than the 3.6, so less payload. Which is why actual payload as indicated on the door sticker will be different depending on options. A stripped down Sport S Max Tow is going to have the highest payload rating.

 

[Josh00333]

That's how I look at it, kinda the point of the gawr I brought up, but that's not at all how Jeep has them set.

Take a Sport gawr of 6850 - listed curb weight of 4691 = payload of 2159 WOW!! errr hard stop, payload is listed at 1105....

Stripped down max tow dose NOT have the highest payload rating. Why not? by all logic it should, a manual with a tow capacity little over a Subaru has the highest payload.

Ric ya see the sheet I attached in the first post? HAs the ratings loads etc. Not a real logic to them. Was trying to sort them out, but no real clarity to them, and not a lot of folks actually look at them.

How you calculate payload is combined axle ratings minus sprung weight. The more options and crap you have in your JT the less payload capacity. The 3.0 weighs more than the 3.6, so less payload. Which is why actual payload as indicated on the door sticker will be different depending on options. A stripped down Sport S Max Tow is going to have the highest payload rating.

 

[Josh00333]

I found a truck set the way I want it and the dealer was nice enough to take a picture of the door load; 1196 payload. -79 less than set on the specification sheet but not as bad as I feared.

Sponsored