Diesel won't start- bad batteries or bad starter?

[69charged]

Sorry ahead of time....this might be a little long rant....

Good day all. I have a little issue with my 23 diesel not starting. We have been driving it with no problems at all. I have not been getting any of the typical warning signs that my aux battery is on its way out or anything. Same for the main battery. This past Monday I tried to command start the truck and it was pretty cold out. I had plugged it in the night before so that wasn't the cause. I noticed it was not running so I put on the winter jacket and went out to start it. It wouldn't turn over at all but I could hear the starter kind of clunk, or it was the solenoid. Not sure which. I tried a couple more times and it gave me starter protection enables warning and a timer. So I left it and threw the battery charger on it. I had to take my daughter to hockey so we took a different vehicle. It was on charger for about 6 hours and my son said it showed fully charged. I asked him to try it and he said it wouldn't go. And that he saw smoke come from the drivers side somewhere.
I called the dealership the next morning and they told me it was probably the batteries, and that if they towed it and that's what it was I wouldn't be covered under warranty as I'm out of the basic warranty. But if it was something else like a starter or something, it would all be covered.
So I decided to buy new batteries and try it myself first. I installed the 2 new batteries and tried it and got the same result. Same sound and no start. I called the dealership and he said to bring it in in a couple weeks. I said there is no way I can go a couple weeks without a running vehicle. So he checked on a loaner or rental and said I'm covered for a maximum of 50 a day, FOR ONE DAY!!! What am I supposed to do with a rental for one day?!
He says let me talk to my manager and see if there is something we can do. Calls me back an hour later and says that the starter is not covered under the powertrain warranty. I told him the guy I talked to before ran my serial number and the starter part number and said it absolutely was covered under my warranty.
So now I'm stuck with a dead truck in the driveway, with 66,000kms on it, and they won't come get it or fix it.

Where should a person go from here? Do i just eat the 1000 bucks for a new starter? Is it really not covered with so little kms on it and I have only owned it a year??
Thanks all if you read all that!!!
Clarence

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[69charged]

I guess the other thing it could be is the actual engine. If it’s seized, then they’ll cover it!!
Hopefully they’d cover it!!!
I’ll update when I get a chance to try move the motor with a breaker bar.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Batteries easily. Mine both crapped at a year old and they never showed signs. Just one morning it wouldn’t start.

 

[DylanM]

I guess the other thing it could be is the actual engine. If it’s seized, then they’ll cover it!!
Hopefully they’d cover it!!!
I’ll update when I get a chance to try move the motor with a breaker bar.

If the engine will rotate with a breaker bar, you can try manually triggering the starter via the method shown in the thread linked below. This'll help determine whether the starter's good or not.
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...sel-with-engine-will-not-start-message.89485/

I would recommend going back over all your battery cable connections however, just to be certain you don't have the batteries wired in series. Couldn't hurt to also check for blown fuses in the PDC -- don't forget to check the Z-fuse as well.

One more thought, it might be a good idea to give all the wiring in the engine bay a once over to be sure nothing's been gnawed on, and check that there isn't a frozen or fried critter anywhere that was looking for a warm spot to hole up.

 

[69charged]

Batteries easily. Mine both crapped at a year old and they never showed signs. Just one morning it wouldn’t start.

I’ve already replaced both. Still no go. I can hear the starter solenoid or the starter attempt for about 5 seconds, then release. I did try it a few times and you can see the ribbon cable that goes from the solenoid into the starter body is discoloured. So it’s been hot.
I have the procedure to remove the starter now from a friend that works at a Jeep dealer. So I will attempt to turn it over tonight with a breaker bar to rule out the motor being seized.

 

[PuddleJumper]

I’ve already replaced both. Still no go. I can hear the starter solenoid or the starter attempt for about 5 seconds, then release. I did try it a few times and you can see the ribbon cable that goes from the solenoid into the starter body is discoloured. So it’s been hot.
I have the procedure to remove the starter now from a friend that works at a Jeep dealer. So I will attempt to turn it over tonight with a breaker bar to rule out the motor being seized.

Damn. Best of luck dude

 

[Jteakus]

Sounds like a bad starter but it shouldn't be bad so early in its life.
Check your coolant level and make sure it isn't low, take a look at oil level too.
Don't get too western trying to turn the engine over with the breaker bar and please keep us posted as to what you find, Best of luck.

 

[69charged]

Tried to get at the balancer bolt but there is a big plastic cover over the whole thing. It’s doable to take off no problem, but I couldn’t feel my fingers anymore and the wind is starting to pick up and howl right under the vehicle were I was working. It’s -17c here (2F) and I’m laying on the snow in the driveway. It’s supposed to be warmer so I have to wait.
On a side note, instead of doing the jumper trick, I reached in there with a giant screwdriver and jumped across the 2 posts. I got nothing. Big sparks. That’s about it.

Clarence

 

[Lost1wing]

You can't put the smoke back into electronic components. If you tried a remote start and found out later that you had a starter lockout (protection mode), I would guess that your starter is toast.

I have diesels and they don't like the cold. Do not use starting fluid if you get it to turn over.

Do the basics, check oil and water and then jump the starter. I believe someone else sent you the link for that.

Once you get it to at least turn, then you will need to figure out why it didn't start in the first place. Hopefully it was just the cold temps and maybe gelled fuel. Think about getting it someplace warm.

 

[69charged]

You can't put the smoke back into electronic components. If you tried a remote start and found out later that you had a starter lockout (protection mode), I would guess that your starter is toast.

I have diesels and they don't like the cold. Do not use starting fluid if you get it to turn over.

Do the basics, check oil and water and then jump the starter. I believe someone else sent you the link for that.

Once you get it to at least turn, then you will need to figure out why it didn't start in the first place. Hopefully it was just the cold temps and maybe gelled fuel. Think about getting it someplace warm.

I understand all that. And thank you for the reply. In this case it’s either the engine is totally seized (which I doubt), or the starter is seized. Jumping the starter like I tried totally eliminates anything to do with any electronics or anything but the starter. The starter will not turn. I jumped across the 2 terminals right on the starter. It has no choice but to spin if it can.
But, gotta wait for warmer weather!!

 

[Lost1wing]

I understand all that. And thank you for the reply. In this case it’s either the engine is totally seized (which I doubt), or the starter is seized. Jumping the starter like I tried totally eliminates anything to do with any electronics or anything but the starter. The starter will not turn. I jumped across the 2 terminals right on the starter. It has no choice but to spin if it can.
But, gotta wait for warmer weather!!

The starter windings are what gets smoked from overheating. That is what I am thinking. I believe your fuel gelled and the engine failed to start. The remote start continued cranking until it timed out. Then you attempted to start it again and saw the smoke from the started windings. If you do put in a new starter, you will most likely smoke it too. If you leave it out in the cold if the fuel was the issue for the no start, history will repeat itself.

Warm that thing up!

 

[69charged]

The starter windings are what gets smoked from overheating. That is what I am thinking. I believe your fuel gelled and the engine failed to start. The remote start continued cranking until it timed out. Then you attempted to start it again and saw the smoke from the started windings. If you do put in a new starter, you will most likely smoke it too. If you leave it out in the cold if the fuel was the issue for the no start, history will repeat itself.

Warm that thing up!

It didn't start at all, or turn over right from the get go. I always remote start from the front door of the house with the door open so I can confirm it started. Did the same with my F150 when I had it.
Also, I don't have a heated garage or anything to put it in. I will change out the fuel filter and check for water in it as you suggest.
Thanks

 

[BillyP]

You said the starter wire was discolored. That could be your problem, not enough amperage getting to your starter.

 

[69charged]

Well, amperage goes up as voltage goes down. So on top of the starter or engine not turning, which in itself draws a lot of current, as the batteries went lower, that also increases current going through. So no doubt the wiring got hot. It was the plastic top cap of the actual solenoid that got hot and was smoking as it is right up against that bare braided wire going into the starter body.

 

[69charged]

Here’s a shot of a starter for a 3.6 gasser. But the solenoid is identical. I jumpered across the 2 studs which bypasses absolutely everything on the vehicle. It should spin no matter what. It didn’t.
Doesn’t answer whether it is the starter or engine though.
I’ll get there!!!

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