Different Lift Methodology = Different Results?

[Clayton Off Road]

Speaking with my local shop today. He said that he has seen Clayton arms hold up extremely well to abuse. He mentioned taking apart the Overland+ joints after several years of use and they were almost like new. He also said good things about Metal Cloak, but that he’s been surprised just how well the Clayton joints hold up to extreme off-roading over a long period of time.

I've heard the same thing about Clayton arms and bushings!

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[RodRecket]

I've heard the same thing about Clayton arms and bushings!

The maintenance free Giiro joints are a big selling point for me. Considering this is my daily driver I don't want to have to think about maintaining or rebuilding joints every year.

For a more complete kit, without spending 3k right now, I was thinking I would add Fox 2.0 and bump stops. Is there anything else I need to consider so I am not prematurely wearing out other components?

 

[RodRecket]

Relocation brackets are probably fine. Ultimately all these kits have compromises. Example, getting a near horizontal lca angle from a relo bracket helps to maintain stock or near stock ride quality because less of the road force (bump) is transferring into your frame because the fulcrum of the lever that is your LCA allows the axle to travel up more easily.

that said, you will be using stock control arms which, as someone said, are maximized more for road performance and not offroad flex. That and if you decide to take on more tough obstacles the lca’s and brackets can get dragged and banged around by being so low. But this isnt really a huge threat for more mild offroading and trekking....unless you want to keep building the rig beyond this kit and then its time to chuck those brackets. At some point they limit you.

my goals were a bit different as i wanted to build a little more flex to explore and build it to last. Mine is probably a little over built for my needs but am loving it.

You make some good points. I think I have narrowed it down to Clayton or AEV.
The main reason AEV is still in the running is their level of detail with the driveshaft spacers, right front spring perch spacer, and frequency tuned springs. Everything seems very specific to the JT. While Clayton has premium components and a very reputable brand the front springs look to be carry overs from JK/JL/JT.

Either way I think I am going to be happy with the ride. Suspension has come such a long way it's pretty awesome I am able to stuff a 35 and expect it to ride better than stock on the street.

 

[Clayton Off Road]

The maintenance free Giiro joints are a big selling point for me. Considering this is my daily driver I don't want to have to think about maintaining or rebuilding joints every year.

For a more complete kit, without spending 3k right now, I was thinking I would add Fox 2.0 and bump stops. Is there anything else I need to consider so I am not prematurely wearing out other components?

The maintenance free Giiro joints are life-changing, especially when they still provide all of the flex you need to keep up off-road!

Adding some bump stops and Fox shocks to the Ride Right kit is everything you would need. You could even live without the bump stops if you weren't planning on flexing your Jeep out too much, but if you're just looking to get the kit closer to the Overland+ kit so that it's easier to upgrade down the road, it definitely wouldn't hurt anything!

 

[Clayton Off Road]

You make some good points. I think I have narrowed it down to Clayton or AEV.
The main reason AEV is still in the running is their level of detail with the driveshaft spacers, right front spring perch spacer, and frequency tuned springs. Everything seems very specific to the JT. While Clayton has premium components and a very reputable brand the front springs look to be carry overs from JK/JL/JT.

Either way I think I am going to be happy with the ride. Suspension has come such a long way it's pretty awesome I am able to stuff a 35 and expect it to ride better than stock on the street.

We personally have not felt or heard of any driveline vibrations at these heights, or seen any kind of passenger side lean on the JT, so while some of these extra components are nice, we didn't feel as though they were necessary or the most important areas that needed attending to. That's not to say they don't serve a purpose, it's just not where we wanted to focus our attention! Also, since Jeep has kept the front of the vehicles the same the past few generations, a lot of manufacturers (ourselves included) found it to be the best approach to continue running the front coils that were already tried and true!

 

[Silvertruck]

Also, i had no issues with driveline angles on the mopar lift, which is more apples to apples to what the OP is shopping for height wise. I may not actually need a carrier bearing spacer now but its cheap insurance to make sure things work well even at full flex. The front driveshaft was definitely required though for my setup.

 

[Mac]

This was originally posted in another thread but I thought it may warrant its own considering I want to talk about many different lifts.

I have decided not to rush into lifting my truck but the end goal is 2"-2.5" w/ 35s on my Sport S 6mt. My truck is my daily driver first and foremost but is also used to haul mulch for my yard in the spring, load up the bed with home depot supplies for house projects, and then....take me off road and camping in places like Imogene Pass CO. Taking all of this into consideration I have found a few lift kits that have caught my eye for my needs and similar in cost (money is also a consideration for me).

1. MOPAR lift: 2" fixed LCAs, no track bars, linear rate springs, comes with Fox 2.0
MOPAR 2"

2. Rusty's 2" Basic: Adjustable LCAs, front and rear adjustable track bars, dual rate progressive springs by Eibach (will pair w/ Fox 2.0)
Rusty's 2"

3. Clayton 2.5" ride right: Adjustable UCAs, adj front and rear track bars, linear front springs and triple rate rear springs (will pair w/ Fox 2.0)
Clayton 2.5"

4. AEV 2.5" Dualsport: Control Arm relocation brackets, track bar relocation brackets, triple rate coils springs, Bilstein shocks, rear driveshaft shims
AEV 2.5"

It's a little bizarre to me that there are so many different ways of achieving the same goal: compliant street ride, more flex offroad, and bigger tires. Not one of these manufacturers take the same approach to making that happen but they all seem fairly high quality.

After actually reading through AEVs site and the install instructions it seems to me there was rational for everything they chose to do (even a small spring spacer for the front right because there is more weight on that side of the vehicle). I had initially wrote off this system but after reading through the product page it may be at the top of my list, even though I am not psyched about their shock choice.

I know this is super long winded but I am hoping for some conversation about the kits listed above as I think they should be a consideration for anyone in the market for a 2" suspension kit for under $2k. I would love to hear from anyone with some expertise that can dissect why some companies choose linear vs double and triple rate springs, adj UCA's vs adj and fixed LCA's vs brackets, etc. Thanks for reading

IMO, unless you are doing serious hard core off roading for the amount of lift you are asking about there is no reason to replace the control arms, just use geometry correcting brackets, it will ride better
and handle forward impact bumps better, like if you drive into a curb. When was the last time you read about a oem control arm failure? IMO it is easy to get carried away with suspension changes and end up with a more complicated and expensive suspension than is needed.

 

[cgflyer]

I think I commented on your last thread and will throw in my 2 cents again for MetalCloak...I think we all love or hate lifts that we choose for our rigs. I don't have experience with Rusty's or Clayton or Mopar or AEV, but I did have a MC lift on my JKR and loved it. They are pricey, but there was zero on road compromise. The ride was better than stock. I'm sure Clayton has a great product, but when I was in my JK and talking to other guys building Jeeps, they weren't talked about much in my circles and I can include Jeep forums in that experience, so I never even looked at them...but back in 2012-2013 when I was building my JK, everyone was talking about MetalCloak. When I am ready to lift my truck, I will go with MC unless I can learn more about Clayton and they change me mind...to me, the Mopar lift is nothing but a budget boost.

 

[RodRecket]

I think I commented on your last thread and will throw in my 2 cents again for MetalCloak...I think we all love or hate lifts that we choose for our rigs. I don't have experience with Rusty's or Clayton or Mopar or AEV, but I did have a MC lift on my JKR and loved it. They are pricey, but there was zero on road compromise. The ride was better than stock. I'm sure Clayton has a great product, but when I was in my JK and talking to other guys building Jeeps, they weren't talked about much in my circles and I can include Jeep forums in that experience, so I never even looked at them...but back in 2012-2013 when I was building my JK, everyone was talking about MetalCloak. When I am ready to lift my truck, I will go with MC unless I can learn more about Clayton and they change me mind...to me, the Mopar lift is nothing but a budget boost.

I have not really considered MK because they only offer a full spring/shock kit in 3.5. Their 2.5 is a front end level. I want to stay as low as possible to fit 35s.

 

[Clayton Off Road]

I think I commented on your last thread and will throw in my 2 cents again for MetalCloak...I think we all love or hate lifts that we choose for our rigs. I don't have experience with Rusty's or Clayton or Mopar or AEV, but I did have a MC lift on my JKR and loved it. They are pricey, but there was zero on road compromise. The ride was better than stock. I'm sure Clayton has a great product, but when I was in my JK and talking to other guys building Jeeps, they weren't talked about much in my circles and I can include Jeep forums in that experience, so I never even looked at them...but back in 2012-2013 when I was building my JK, everyone was talking about MetalCloak. When I am ready to lift my truck, I will go with MC unless I can learn more about Clayton and they change me mind...to me, the Mopar lift is nothing but a budget boost.

Metalcloak is an awesome brand as well! To be honest, our company started almost 20 years ago in 2001 and for the most part, grew and spread by word of mouth primarily, so I don't doubt that there are many areas where our name hasn't quite reached yet! It wasn't until recently that we decided it was time to start showcasing what we had to offer to a larger audience online. As Jeep and wheeling enthusiasts, our goal was always to improve upon the already strong foundation Jeep had built by offering the absolute best solution possible for somebody that wanted the best of everything when it came to their Jeeps suspension. Off-road capability, on-road comfort, the ability to handle heavy payloads and equipment, we want you to have it all! Our company has never been about reinventing the wheel, we're about perfecting what works, fixing what doesn't, and providing peace of mind with 100% Made-In-The-USA parts and materials and a lifetime warranty! Always happy to talk more or answer any questions you have about our products if you are interested, but either way you are not making a bad choice

 

[cgflyer]

I have not really considered MK because they only offer a full spring/shock kit in 3.5. Their 2.5 is a front end level. I want to stay as low as possible to fit 35s.

I'm the same way, I don't really want/need 3.5" even to go 37's since I have MC fenders...ton of clearance, but I've heard from others, unlike with Clayton, MC isn't getting 3.5" with their 3.5" springs...but I can't comment with first hand experience.

 

[DeezJT]

Also MC only offers a 1 year warranty or original purchaser.

 

[GladiatorCruzen]

You make some good points. I think I have narrowed it down to Clayton or AEV.
The main reason AEV is still in the running is their level of detail with the driveshaft spacers, right front spring perch spacer, and frequency tuned springs. Everything seems very specific to the JT. While Clayton has premium components and a very reputable brand the front springs look to be carry overs from JK/JL/JT.

Either way I think I am going to be happy with the ride. Suspension has come such a long way it's pretty awesome I am able to stuff a 35 and expect it to ride better than stock on the street.

Per their site...”AEV is currently developing a new 2.5” spring, specifically for the EcoDiesel. If you are installing this suspension system on an EcoDiesel model, the included coil spring spacer needs to go on the opposite side of the vehicle to account for different fuel and DEF tank placement.”

 

[jurfie]

Which lift to go with is a tricky topic. As @cgflyer said, people either love or hate their lift. Pay attention to those who hate theirs more than those who love theirs, because we ALL have a tendency to think what we picked is best. That, combined with every Jeep owner having a different end goal, what works for one person might not work for you.

Every lift has compromises. If you want a Jeep that handles better than stock, it will not perform as well off road. If you want a rock crawling beast, road manners will suffer. If you want an overland rig, you need spring rates than can accommodate the extra load, so it will handle great when loaded up, but not as well when unloaded. If you want to spend less than $1000 to fit bigger tires, it will ride like crap. Pick your poison.

Also consider customer service and where a product is manufactured (not just engineered). I'd want 100% NA products under my Jeep and am willing to pay a bit more to support it; not everyone cares or can afford to, so make your own decision here.

Metalcloak is a big name in the Jeep community because they were VERY active on forums a few years back when JKs were new. Everyone who have owned a Jeep for a while has heard of them. I haven't looked on the JL forum to see if they post and answer questions, but they are pretty much crickets here (just look at their sponsor section and post count; as of this post, they've posted 8 times and almost all of them are about a giveaway contest). Now, they probably don't post often because they don't need to; they put out a quality product and people are aware of them. But to me at least, a sponsor should be willing to spend time on the forums answering questions, even if they are already popular in the community.

@Clayton Off Road and @Rock Krawler Suspension are examples of suspension manufacturers who have been very gracious (and patient, I might add) with this and that tells me their customer service is top-notch. Again: not saying MC doesn't have great service if you call them up (I've actually heard they do), just that they are much less active than others and that's going to influence where I spend my money.

 

[cgflyer]

Which lift to go with is a tricky topic. As @cgflyer said, people either love or hate their lift. Pay attention to those who hate theirs more than those who love theirs, because we ALL have a tendency to think what we picked is best. That, combined with every Jeep owner having a different end goal, what works for one person might not work for you.

Every lift has compromises. If you want a Jeep that handles better than stock, it will not perform as well off road. If you want a rock crawling beast, road manners will suffer. If you want an overland rig, you need spring rates than can accommodate the extra load, so it will handle great when loaded up, but not as well when unloaded. If you want to spend less than $1000 to fit bigger tires, it will ride like crap. Pick your poison.

Also consider customer service and where a product is manufactured (not just engineered). I'd want 100% NA products under my Jeep and am willing to pay a bit more to support it; not everyone cares or can afford to, so make your own decision here.

Metalcloak is a big name in the Jeep community because they were VERY active on forums a few years back when JKs were new. Everyone who have owned a Jeep for a while has heard of them. I haven't looked on the JL forum to see if they post and answer questions, but they are pretty much crickets here (just look at their sponsor section and post count; as of this post, they've posted 8 times and almost all of them are about a giveaway contest). Now, they probably don't post often because they don't need to; they put out a quality product and people are aware of them. But to me at least, a sponsor should be willing to spend time on the forums answering questions, even if they are already popular in the community.

@Clayton Off Road and @Rock Krawler Suspension are examples of suspension manufacturers who have been very gracious (and patient, I might add) with this and that tells me their customer service is top-notch. Again: not saying MC doesn't have great service if you call them up (I've actually heard they do), just that they are much less active than others and that's going to influence where I spend my money.

Haha, I just said the same thing about MC being crickets on here in a different thread and because of that, I am leaning towards Clayton...but I still love my MC fenders and loved my MC lift on my JKR, and MC does have good customer service and honors military...BUT I have never won any of their give aways hahaha....I'm planning a two month long cross country in the Spring and will almost definitely not be lifted yet (just can't justify it with the amount of tread I have left on my 35's) and plan to try to visit their shop. But the more and more I see Clayton supporting this forum, the more I am interested in their product especially since I am building more of an overland rig than rock crawler.

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