Do Faraday Boxes Work?

[j.o.y.ride]

Yes. Even with two key fobs inside the truck it would not find it. The catch is if I did not lock the box, enough leaks through that it would work. If you lock it, yes it works.

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[Gren71]

The little box I made in my basement is no where near that fancy haha

 

[j.o.y.ride]

The little box I made in my basement is no where near that fancy haha

This thing was $20 and came with 2 travel pouches for hotels etc. I didnt test the pouches. Maybe after my next meeting.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FX6Q4H3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[XraytecH]

I need to get one of these. I have a really bad habit of hanging my keys on a hook by the front door of my apartment. So anyone with half brain can clone my fob and drive away with my JT.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

Why would you stow your fob inside a faraday box, inside your JT?

Well I dont, the box is inside my house. But to prove the box works I took the keys and box inside the truck to show the truck won't even start with 2 keys inside of it if they're in the box.

If the truck can't find 2 keys 1 foot away, hackers can't find them inside your house.

 

[rharr]

That test is only a passive test, you are just testing if the RFID chip can be blocked, which has no amplification or power and very limited range already. The Jeep is what sends the amplified signal to the static chip which in turn, power from the jeep signal then feeds the chip enough energy to then ping a weak signal back to the jeep.

I am still a little confused at what is being used to break into jeeps. Is it pirated/cloned RFID signals (aka passive entry) or is it the active signal from the fob when the unlock is pressed that is the main access vector?

Both very different with very different signal ranges and transmission signal power.

You need a way to press the unlock button of the Fob while in your box to see if if can broadcast through the box to get a better feel for how well the thing works.

doing a little looking the Hitag2 RFID chip (likey used in our fobs) has a range of about 1 meter. But the catch is "an adversary can use tuned equipment with big antennas that ignore radiation regulations in order to reach a larger reading distance"

There in lies the thinking behind using a faraday cage. It's not about keeping signal in but really about protecting the RFID chip when it gets blasted with high power radio waves that allows it to become more readable at longer distances.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I am still a little confused at what is being used to break into jeeps. Is it pirated/cloned RFID signals (aka passive entry) or is it the active signal from the fob when the unlock is pressed that is the main access vector?

Maybe you missed the tech explanation of one method -
You are walking toward your truck in a parking lot - you press the unlock button. Truck doesn't respond. You press it again.
The first time, the signal was captured - but the truck was prevented from receiving it.
The next one was allowed to go through.

They now have an unlock code that will work for several more unlock cycles.

There's more on the details in several threads here.

 

[BigDKY]

I got mine last week it definitely works good when closed. Box is nice looking too. Definitely a good investment for peace of mind.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The Jeep is what sends the amplified signal to the static chip which in turn, power from the jeep signal then feeds the chip enough energy to then ping a weak signal back to the jeep.

Not really. The FOB is the signal. It doesn't get power from the Jeep.

One person will scan the targeted home with a device to locate a key fob. Once they lock in a signal, they will transmit that to another person who is waiting near the car. Depending on the strength, the criminals can break into or even steal the vehicle.

That's why you should not keep the fobs in the open, especially near an outside wall.
You don't need a steel box. A pouch will work fine because the signal is already going through a wall. Move the fob to an interior wall, use a pouch.

Footage from front-door household security cameras has emerged showing thieves using devices to capture the signals from fobs perhaps left on a table in the hallway or in a jacket pocket. As soon as the thieves get access, the car can be driven off in seconds.

The FOB signal alone is strong enough. The truck doesn't transmit power to it. It's already emitting a signal strong enough to be picked up.

Video from a keyless car theft in England shows how it works. Two crooks are needed to pull it off. One goes to the front door where a lot of people store their keys. That signal is then amplified and relayed to the second device that’s being held close to the car door. The car is tricked into thinking the key fob is next to the door. That allows the car to be opened, started, and driven away.

The thing is that one is by the house, locates the fob signal likely near a door or window of the house, they catch the signal, amplify it and relay it to a receiver a second person has, who uses it to unlock the vehicle and start it.

 

[rharr]

Maybe you missed the tech explanation of one method -
You are walking toward your truck in a parking lot - you press the unlock button. Truck doesn't respond. You press it again.
The first time, the signal was captured - but the truck was prevented from receiving it.
The next one was allowed to go through.

They now have an unlock code that will work for several more unlock cycles.

There's more on the details in several threads here.

No i have not missed that part. I am would call that an active signal, that is a different signal then the RFID chip signal. The RFID is a passive signal. The button push on the fob triggers the fob to broadcast a different (active) signal using a built in transmitter and is powered by the battery in the fob.

The passive entry is a different system, it uses a RFID chip/chicklet in the fob that has no power going to it, it's just a chunk of silicone. But is designed in a way that it can use the radio wave energy from a wake ping to then power it's self enough to ping back a hello ping, that is why it has a lower range then a the button push. Think of a RFID chip like a mirror, more power/signal projected at it, the stronger the signal bounced back. The article I read basically goes on to describe that the RFID chip which is likely a Hitag2 chip RFID is pinged from a illegally high power active signal broadcaster antenna that then the RFID passive chip mirrors back it's codes to. Which is then used to gain access to the car.

what you talk about here I don't believe is exactly how it works you are mixing up systems. Have you taken a fob apart and dug out the RFID chip to put into a threedom?

Not really. The FOB is the signal. It doesn't get power from the Jeep.

The FOB signal alone is strong enough. The truck doesn't transmit power to it. It's already emitting a signal strong enough to be picked up.

Video from a keyless car theft in England shows how it works. Two crooks are needed to pull it off. One goes to the front door where a lot of people store their keys. That signal is then amplified and relayed to the second device that’s being held close to the car door. The car is tricked into thinking the key fob is next to the door. That allows the car to be opened, started, and driven away.

The thing is that one is by the house, locates the fob signal likely near a door or window of the house, they catch the signal, amplify it and relay it to a receiver a second person has, who uses it to unlock the vehicle and start it.

The attack above describes a passive RFID attack.

 

[joeym7]

This thing was $20 and came with 2 travel pouches for hotels etc. I didnt test the pouches. Maybe after my next meeting.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FX6Q4H3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My 2 pouches work fine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My 2 pouches work fine.

They will work fine.

I have used simple boxes made of thin copper sheeting to isolate certain electronic parts.

And then my wife has the materials to make RF blocking pouches for things.....

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