EV - not ready for the masses?

[dcmdon]

The all electric mode for a PHEV is not a party trick at all. A friend is was a tech at a Chevy dealer. He told me an interesting statistic a few years ago. It was that the Chevy Volts typically ran 90 to 95% of their miles in all electric. Its electric range was in the 60 mile range.

It was not uncommon for a 100k mile Volt to have 5000 miles on its engine. So a plug in hybrid achieves 95% electrification with a battery pack 1/5th the size of a pure BEV.

That doesn't sound like a party trick to me. Especially since in many parts of the country electricity is really cheap at night.

So the direct benefit to the consumer is
1) stupid tax credit - but its there so you might as well use it.
2) more power
3) better fuel economy
4) the option to run all electric if you choose.

The person I know with a RAV4 PHEV actually went in to buy a regular hybrid but when he did the math, the PHEV was actually cheaper with the tax credit. And it has Sixty more hp with much more torque right off idle.

We can argue back and forth. Go drive one. You might be surprised.

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[The Duck of Earl]

The all electric mode for a PHEV is not a party trick at all. A friend is was a tech at a Chevy dealer. He told me an interesting statistic a few years ago. It was that the Chevy Volts typically ran 90 to 95% of their miles in all electric. Its electric range was in the 60 mile range.

It was not uncommon for a 100k mile Volt to have 5000 miles on its engine. So a plug in hybrid achieves 95% electrification with a battery pack 1/5th the size of a pure BEV.

That doesn't sound like a party trick to me. Especially since in many parts of the country electricity is really cheap at night.

So the direct benefit to the consumer is
1) stupid tax credit - but its there so you might as well use it.
2) more power
3) better fuel economy
4) the option to run all electric if you choose.

The person I know with a RAV4 PHEV actually went in to buy a regular hybrid but when he did the math, the PHEV was actually cheaper with the tax credit. And it has Sixty more hp with much more torque right off idle.

We can argue back and forth. Go drive one. You might be surprised.

I think we are talking past each other without necessarily disagreeing. Particularly on the stupid tax break...

Party trick comment of mine stands, as in the 4xe wrangler anyway, it only puts out 134 horsepower / 181 pound-foot in pure electric mode. Not enough to be worth it. If that was sufficient to me, I'd get a Nisan leaf for that purpose and call it a day.

And personally, I have no desire to both charge a car and put gas in it. Truck will sit in the driveway, charging will be a pain in the ass. I'd rather have a powerful and seamless 'regular' hybrid like the ford Powerboost or the new tundra... A few years in the future I can see having a gas truck and maybe a pure EV for the around town people mover. Until tech moves along, I stick with my dinosaur juice and leave the outlets for just running my lights, AC, and tools (don't get me started on gas vs electric for heaters, stoves, water heater...).

 

[Blade1668]

A few days ago I did see a interesting semi-truck it's powered with natural gas. Good or Bad the only thing I wouldn't want to be within 50 miles of it if involved in crash directly or indirectly.
The big plus is if "we" can develop more recovery of natural gas from regular oil wells (locations depending) this has great potential in transportation fuel. I'm way out on knowledge of current oil production. In years past most oil wells was self supported by using it to fuel the motor running the pump jack that has been supplemented with electric motors. The excess n. gas is was left to burn off. I knew of some that used the "waste" N. gas to cook and heating. I can see N. Gas, LPG, hydrogen and other potential fuel sources being phased in or should be. If only the "Back to the future 2" Mr Fusion came true..
What goes around comes back in circles of development. Cars of late 1800s started as electric, the problems with them are still around batteries. How and why petro took over transportation then.

Hmmm about a hundred years the same thing is starting over in a way. From horse, ox, mules donkeys to electric then petro now starting over. I hope we don't get to go back to the horse n buggy days...

Dang I like E.V. too it's great for the purposes and has reliability, stupid power and speed plus low cost in wear out parts but.... Many downsides some are known potential for many unknowns. A simple one to think about your ability to just go travel.

Hmmm in the 50k plus crowd vehicle owners dang I'm logged into the wrong forum I guess.

I got to drive a buddies hybrid Prius it was fun to drive, I was able to keep it over 50 MPG's. He drives it Monday to Thursday around Huntsville/ RSA. AL. then Thursday night back to Atlanta GA for weekend driving back Monday morning. Filling up before driving back to Huntsville AL. was what he said.
I've tried to consolidate many things on my reading and thoughts on this.

 

[Geoarch]

We need to stop calling these things EV’s or electric powered.

They’re not electric powered. They’re coal powered. Fossil fuel powered. The whole damn thing is a virtue signaling pipe dream.

Not in New Mexico beginning late this year, and not with my rooftop solar.

 

[Geoarch]

Wonder how the military will handle EV's.

I can see it now. A battery powered Abrams in battle run out of juice. A truck pulls up behind it with a spare battery pack. Swap out the battery packs while the bullets are flying past. The truck takes the old battery pack back behind the lines to a storage depot where the battery pack will be recharged with a portable nuke generator.

EV fighter jets? Instead of EV, need ET.

We ran out of gas and diesel in Vietnam in Amtracs and tanks too. Same thing.

 

[Geoarch]

The all electric mode for a PHEV is not a party trick at all. A friend is was a tech at a Chevy dealer. He told me an interesting statistic a few years ago. It was that the Chevy Volts typically ran 90 to 95% of their miles in all electric. Its electric range was in the 60 mile range.

It was not uncommon for a 100k mile Volt to have 5000 miles on its engine. So a plug in hybrid achieves 95% electrification with a battery pack 1/5th the size of a pure BEV.

That doesn't sound like a party trick to me. Especially since in many parts of the country electricity is really cheap at night.

So the direct benefit to the consumer is
1) stupid tax credit - but its there so you might as well use it.
2) more power
3) better fuel economy
4) the option to run all electric if you choose.

The person I know with a RAV4 PHEV actually went in to buy a regular hybrid but when he did the math, the PHEV was actually cheaper with the tax credit. And it has Sixty more hp with much more torque right off idle.

We can argue back and forth. Go drive one. You might be surprised.

I agree, and with our rooftop solar, driving around town is hydrocarbon free. Unfortunately, the RAV4 PHEVs are rare as hen's teeth, but Hyundai, and soon Subaru will have them.

 

[Rusty PW]

We ran out of gas and diesel in Vietnam in Amtracs and tanks too. Same thing.

But you had plenty of Budweiser.

 

[Geoarch]

But you had plenty of Budweiser.

Eat more beans we need the gas.

 

[dcmdon]

We ran out of gas and diesel in Vietnam in Amtracs and tanks too. Same thing.

This was my point about hybrids actually being very valuable to a military. Drive it normally and you use 40% less fuel. BEVs may be a long way off for military applications, but hybrids are not.

 

[dos0711]

Here's the problem I have with electric cars. They are being shoved down our throats. Here's a crazy idea. Let them both develop side by side and let the market dictate which way to go. Build a better mouse trap and people will buy it. Think Beta vs VHS.

 

[Forum Crawler]

That's an overly negative impression. Renewable energy is a small part of the American power grid, but it is a part of it and it's growing. Also, if you charge an EV from a natural gas power plant, that produces much less carbon than filling the tank with gasoline or diesel. If the power plant is nuclear, even better.

Bullshit. Wind and solar are sometimey at best. States like Texas and California have poured BILLIONS into green energy and it’s anything but dependable. And how many “natural gas” power plants are there again?

It’s not ready for prime time. And that’s a fact.

 

[BigG]

Here in Oregon they want to stop all natural gas, coal, and no nuclear. They also want to remove 4 dams. No idea where we are going to get our power from.

 

[Geoarch]

Bullshit. Wind and solar are sometimey at best. States like Texas and California have poured BILLIONS into green energy and it’s anything but dependable. And how many “natural gas” power plants are there again?

It’s not ready for prime time. And that’s a fact.

If you mean “it’s not” yet “ready for prime time”, I agree. But it will. We have 6.23 kW rooftop solar and pay $8.06 per month even in summer. We’re shopping for a PHEV that will be charged from the sun. And yes I have a JTR because it isn’t there yet, but it will be. I don’t think we’ll be giving up our 4x4s, just powered differently. Funny you bring up Texas which proved that carbon power isn’t always dependable. Or is it “something about Texas”?

 

[Rusty PW]

 

[Klutch]

Bullshit. Wind and solar are sometimey at best. States like Texas and California have poured BILLIONS into green energy and it’s anything but dependable. And how many “natural gas” power plants are there again?

It’s not ready for prime time. And that’s a fact.

Well, yeah. Of course wind and solar are "sometimey". That's why we need other energy sources. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

There are 1,793 natural gas power plants in the US.

There were 241 coal fired power plants in 2019. Likely, some of those have likely been shut down since.

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