Glad dead, the RHF Hub the culprit.

[Charles 236]

I hear ya. So we have a KIN module, security key fob, RFH, multiple antennas, BCM, PCM, and both discrete and CAN bus connections all working together just so we can push a button to start our Jeep instead of having to use something so archaic as a keyed ignition switch. Overly complex systems for no true benefit really are the bane of modern vehicles IMO. Throw in a healthy dose of just in time supply concept, and we have the perfect setup for an ever increasing chance your vehicle will turn into a massive paper weight for extended periods of time until (or if) it can be repaired.

Complexity has it's own issues, but a lot of the issues are more in the quality control side of things, including the suppliers. The engineering is sound on these Jeeps, despite what the internet often says. Also, there is plenty of technical information available for modern vehicles, and it is widely available, unlike a car that I repaired this week.


Simplicity can be a headache as well, and not just in features being left out. I had to repair a 1955 Desoto Fireflite this week that had a ignition off draw that was killing the battery. Despite being a primitive, 6 volt electrical system, it took a while to track down. All the wires were cloth insulated, and the same color (off white) to add an extra level of frustration. I succeeded in repairing the wiring to eliminate the problem, but it made me appreciate a lot of modern features and engineering.

Sponsored

 

[Charles 236]

Yup -once or twice, I've dealt with the 4.0............ but my JT's 3.6 will run circles around it.

Simple? Depends on the year, I suppose.
There's over 50 wires involved............ just for the PCM, in this case - OBD I

Don't let that crank sensor go south, it can be a bitch to diagnose if it's randomly acting up and not setting any codes.

RENIX is a @$%^

Remix! No! That is a bad flashback right there. I was hired as a Chrysler Plymouth tech at my current dealership, and at the time the Jeep and Eagle techs and the C/P techs didn't cross over. So I didn't get any training on Renix, which was no problem until the owner and the service manager decided that the techs were not going to be brand specific anymore. At least there were manuals and Jeep techs on site, so we could sort of cross train each other.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Complexity has it's own issues, but a lot of the issues are more in the quality control side of things, including the suppliers. The engineering is sound on these Jeeps, despite what the internet often says. Also, there is plenty of technical information available for modern vehicles, and it is widely available, unlike a car that I repaired this week.


Simplicity can be a headache as well, and not just in features being left out. I had to repair a 1955 Desoto Fireflite this week that had a ignition off draw that was killing the battery. Despite being a primitive, 6 volt electrical system, it took a while to track down. All the wires were cloth insulated, and the same color (off white) to add an extra level of frustration. I succeeded in repairing the wiring to eliminate the problem, but it made me appreciate a lot of modern features and engineering.

Wow, well, they took it to the correct person, then, I mean, it WAS a Chrysler product in a way.

I have so much wanted to take my SX4 in to the Jeep dealership for some things - it's a 94 ZJ engine, shares much of the underpinnings and drivetrain with Jeep, and see what they say.
But no one has really touched it except me, so there's that.
Some day, someone will have fun tracing down my electrical mods and how I merged the 1982 technology with the 1994 tech, the special circuit I made so the AMC cruise switch could control the Jeep's cruise control built into the PCM, and other fun things I did. I DID document the wire color changes, though - there's a "map" in the glove box (mostly for me LOL)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Remix! No! That is a bad flashback right there. I was hired as a Chrysler Plymouth tech at my current dealership, and at the time the Jeep and Eagle techs and the C/P techs didn't cross over. So I didn't get any training on Renix, which was no problem until the owner and the service manager decided that the techs were not going to be brand specific anymore. At least there were manuals and Jeep techs on site, so we could sort of cross train each other.

My car's 4.0 is a 94 ZJ - OBD I - and I wasn't really smart when I did that work and didn't put back the connector, and removed most of that wiring. So now I have to do the ignition on off sort of thing and watch the light blink in code.

RENIX was a problem for sure. There were a lot of early 4.0s with idling issues that just could not be "fixed".

 

[Hootbro]

This subject of parts availability has been an ongoing catastrophe. Just think back in the late 70's,I believe the 3 year financing and 36000 mile was concurrent with your loan. Today its still the same and the prices 4X more yet they still have the same crapolla warranty period.

The just in time, was not meant for what we have today it has to change waiting 4-6 weeks for a replacement part still paying on your vehicle is unacceptable.

If Jeep gave a damn, they would pull parts from the line and move the cannibalized vehicle to a another facility for more parts harvesting.
I worked 40 years in aviation we had a term AOG,(aircraft on ground) and many times parts were pulled from the production line to support these customers aircraft.
I hope the OP gets a replacement RF hub sooner than later, guess that's all we got after spending 50-70 thousand .

I work in aircraft manufacturing in my day job and get what you are saying. That being said, the quantity of scale of automobile manufacturing eclipses aviation by many folds and cannibalization of manufacturing parts inventory would be a colossal disaster financially for any company to engage in.

By and large, aircraft manufacturing is still a very heavy manual labor-intensive operation vs. automobile manufacturing with automation making the bulk of manufacturing efficiencies. Cannibalization in auto manufacturing would have to be upfront before installation and for many operations, they cannot just build out the rest of the vehicle sans missing whatever part and push it to the side to catch it later.

Right or wrong, any manufacturer is going to keep the factory line moving as that is what is making them money in the moment. They are not going to idle a factory for parts shortages to make up for post-sale customer support issues.

 

[Charles 236]

The days of swapping modules in vehicles, at least in FCA products, is long past. Twenty or 25 years ago, we could "borrow " a module that was known good to test or even replace a failed module. Now, the VIN is stored in many modules, and a new module often has to be programmed to the vehicle it is used in. Once programmed, it can't be used in any other vehicle. Even more, the vehicles each have a PIN that has to be used to authenticate any programming for new modules. Makes me glad to know retirement is less than three months away.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Some perspective -

In 2022, the U.S. alone had 283.4 million registered vehicles.
Globally, the number of cars is expected to reach two billion by 2040.
In contrast, the global fleet of aircraft, including both active and grounded aircraft, was 28,674 in June 2022.

283.4 MILLION registered vehicles just in the USA vs. global aircraft at 28.6 thousand.
(ASSUMING those are accurate figures)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The days of swapping modules in vehicles, at least in FCA products, is long past. Twenty or 25 years ago, we could "borrow " a module that was known good to test or even replace a failed module. Now, the VIN is stored in many modules, and a new module often has to be programmed to the vehicle it is used in. Once programmed, it can't be used in any other vehicle. Even more, the vehicles each have a PIN that has to be used to authenticate any programming for new modules. Makes me glad to know retirement is less than three months away.

LOL - we did a LOT of that when the Ford electronic ignition systems came about in the 1980s. Those things would get hot and fail - you either swapped another one in place or - grabbed that partial can of freon to cool it down. Faster than going to the Ford books and tracking down the signals of each and every wire involved (and by that time the control module had often cooled enough it worked anyway)

 

[YGBSM]

I work in aircraft manufacturing in my day job

I had a nice little meeting with my bosses bosses boss about responding to a tech bulletin from a manufacturer with "...being unable to duplicate [redacted]'s unique manufacturing methods and desire to include metal shavings with each new delivery, I would recommend sacrificing a goat at 3am as your recovery procedure."

I just combined that meeting with HR with the one where I was assigned left seat on a test flight and screamed "TONIGHT WE DINE IN VALHALLA!" on chatter.

Side note... y'all hiring?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I had a nice little meeting with my bosses bosses boss about responding to a tech bulletin from a manufacturer with "...being unable to duplicate [redacted]'s unique manufacturing methods and desire to include metal shavings with each new delivery, I would recommend sacrificing a goat at 3am as your recovery procedure."

I just combined that meeting with HR with the one where I was assigned left seat on a test flight and screamed "TONIGHT WE DINE IN VALHALLA!" on chatter.

Side note... y'all hiring?

 

[GypsyMech]

It's been hashed about in other threads here over the years - it's not possible. You don't and can't do that. I know it sounds good, easy and so on, and feels good to think that, but there are many reasons it can't be done, some of them legal reasons.
(not to mention the people that you'd force to wait several months for a vehicle they have on order, agreed on a trade deal, maybe need that vehicle and have made a deposit - you simply shift it around)
You can't take parts off a vehicle and put them on another - it becomes a legal tangled mess, not to mention that spares are totally different from parts ordered for and intended for the line.
these aren't aircraft, and there are different rules and regulations and processes - and dealerships and so on involved.

It's very hard to pull parts of airplanes without

It's been hashed about in other threads here over the years - it's not possible. You don't and can't do that. I know it sounds good, easy and so on, and feels good to think that, but there are many reasons it can't be done, some of them legal reasons.
(not to mention the people that you'd force to wait several months for a vehicle they have on order, agreed on a trade deal, maybe need that vehicle and have made a deposit - you simply shift it around)
You can't take parts off a vehicle and put them on another - it becomes a legal tangled mess, not to mention that spares are totally different from parts ordered for and intended for the line.
these aren't aircraft, and there are different rules and regulations and processes - and dealerships and so on involved.

It's very hard to legally stop parts from an airplane. In production, the parts are assigned to a specific tail. In service, it's all about traceability. Unlike the automotive world, even scrapped airplanes used for parts need traceability to legally sell the part; unlike car parts where I can run to a junkyard and harvest what I want, no paperwork requirement. JIT(just in time) only works for what's planned, crappy design, cheap design are not included in that theory. When we take parts from production to support AOG aircraft, or purchase from an approved vendor the paperwork must outweigh the part. I'd be surprised to find auto manufacturers being worried about much more than the profit, and inconveniently having to comply with legal requirement.

 

[Texbaz]

No it's not, worked 40 years with Gulfstream, many times when logging flight controls, gear doors etc the serial number on the part was not the serial number of the A/C it was taken off of.
We would recieve a green A/C and I would get a work request to remove a part from a New aircraft and pull it to be sent out, of course inspected, with an 8130-3.

My point was, aviation is a transportation industry, the auto industry is also. The "just in time" parts supply of yesterday does not support the quantity of vehicles today. Manufactures are brutalizing the consumer so they can make a better prophit.
Our company must have purged millions in spare parts because they were paying big bucks for multi thousand dollar part just sitting on the shelf each year. I get it.

Thinking about how the auto production line is, it looks doable but the paper work, logistics involved I have no idea. Still the buyer/consumer is always bearing the Load.
I have also read stories of parts pulled from completed vehicles.

The up and coming generation has a big problem in front of them, spares is what is also hurting the auto industry, along with not enough techs.

Sponsored