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Undecided

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So the frontal area thing is a big deal? Planning a trailer purchase in the next year or so and that seems extremely limiting.

Yet even the super trucks are stuck with it too...?
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ShadowsPapa

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So the frontal area thing is a big deal? Planning a trailer purchase in the next year or so and that seems extremely limiting.

Yet even the super trucks are stuck with it too...?
Yes and Ford and others have listed that as a consideration in their literature since at least 2011 - I've found references to the Ford formulas and numbers back at least that far - then I stopped looking as I wondered if it was more recent than the last decade. It's not, just that no company marketers or bean counters will let that be on the front page - they bury it in the book after you buy the truck.
 

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hivol13

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With no loss of life, I don't think anyone (insurance company, NHTSA, Jeep) will bother investigating the exact root cause.
This is not necessarily the case. There is certainly subrogation potential here.

Edit: Sorry for the late post, looks like Shadow beat me to it!
 

ShadowsPapa

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This is not necessarily the case. There is certainly subrogation potential here.

Edit: Sorry for the late post, looks like Shadow beat me to it!
Yeah, but thanks for reminding me of the proper term. Ran into that subrogation stuff when my father was killed by a sleeping driver. But I forgot the term used.
 

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redrider

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Yes and Ford and others have listed that as a consideration in their literature since at least 2011 - I've found references to the Ford formulas and numbers back at least that far - then I stopped looking as I wondered if it was more recent than the last decade. It's not, just that no company marketers or bean counters will let that be on the front page - they bury it in the book after you buy the truck.
As other posts have illustrated, reading the owners manual for anything is a lost cause for 95% of the owners. Said bean counters and markteers know this. Once you own it, you own it. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense.
 

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So the frontal area thing is a big deal? Planning a trailer purchase in the next year or so and that seems extremely limiting.

Yet even the super trucks are stuck with it too...?
As a child, did you ever hold your hand out of the window, flat against the wind or edge wise like a wing? Just another reason for me to like an Airstream.
 

mountainpass

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As other posts have illustrated, reading the owners manual for anything is a lost cause for 95% of the owners. Said bean counters and markteers know this. Once you own it, you own it. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense.
I think most people don't read them as half of it is "Don't drink contents of battery."
 

redrider

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I think most people don't read them as half of it is "Don't drink contents of battery."
Surely a lot of that going on. I say let them drink acid. Stupid does not need to reproduce. BTW, 30 sq.ft. is the max frontal area allowed per manual, V1. Trailer at 8'x8' is over twice that limit. Ouch.
 

Jar Jar Insano

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Apparently the "highway gradeability test" is done on a 6% grade for 11 miles, 40 mph min at 100F. I don't recall ever being on stretches of highway much more demanding than that.
This area is rolling hills. We drive that highway weekly and i would say i see a car on fire at least once a month at scotsman hill which is decent grade and takes out a lot of vehicles. being i own a grand cherokee with the same engine and a trailer about half that size and more aerodynamic (not by much because they are all sails), my guess is this guy overloaded the engine. the grand cherokee tows the trailer, but i'm often at 5500rpm towing up the hills in the area.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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As a child, did you ever hold your hand out of the window, flat against the wind or edge wise like a wing? Just another reason for me to like an Airstream.
An old American Pickers episode from years ago showed a predecessor to the Airstream. That travel trailer was almost bullet-shaped.
 

jimbom

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As a child, did you ever hold your hand out of the window, flat against the wind or edge wise like a wing? Just another reason for me to like an Airstream.
This is an important point tied to the aero drag discussion. These frontal area limits are without regard to the shape or length of the trailer. Certainly you can tolerate more frontal area with a trailer that is more streamlined (that's where Cd, drag coefficient makes a big difference.) The length doesn't change the drag equation, other than a slight change in Cd (i.e., if you were hauling a billboard perpendicular to the airflow, that would have a higher Cd.)

Also, a certain amount of frontal area is behind the truck itself and has little contribution to overall drag. This is particularly significant if your truck has a shell and essentially the trailer is "drafting" behind that entire frontal area of the truck. It well could be that a shell in this case would lower overall drag of truck and trailer. These frontal area limits are overly simplified and probably overly conservative for CYA reasons.
 

ShadowsPapa

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This is an important point tied to the aero drag discussion. These frontal area limits are without regard to the shape or length of the trailer. Certainly you can tolerate more frontal area with a trailer that is more streamlined (that's where Cd, drag coefficient makes a big difference.) The length doesn't change the drag equation, other than a slight change in Cd (i.e., if you were hauling a billboard perpendicular to the airflow, that would have a higher Cd.

Also, a certain amount of frontal area is behind the truck itself and has little contribution to overall drag. This is particularly significant if your truck has a shell and essentially the trailer is "drafting" behind that entire frontal area of the truck. It well could be that a shell in this case would lower overall drag of truck and trailer. These frontal area limits are overly simplified and probably overly conservative for CYA reasons.
Some you guys remind me of why I chose to NOT go into aircraft or the aerospace industry like one of my teachers suggested. I'm too danged lazy, I guess? I chose the easier path.
My neuropsychologist said I'm above average in math but my personality says - meh, that's too much work.

Carry on...............
 

ShadowsPapa

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I think most people don't read them as half of it is "Don't drink contents of battery."
All new meaning to the phrase "doing some acid"...........
 

jimbom

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Some you guys remind me of why I chose to NOT go into aircraft or the aerospace industry like one of my teachers suggested. I'm too danged lazy, I guess? I chose the easier path.
My neuropsychologist said I'm above average in math but my personality says - meh, that's too much work.

Carry on...............
That and that the aerospace industry is awfully volitile. My wife is also an aerospace engineer. Although she never quit nor was ever layed off in her 35+ years in aerospace, she worked for 4 different companies. I both changed jobs and was laid off before consulting in the end.
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