Going off the grid

[sharpsicle]

Cars are found to be the single worse product for data privacy with a lack of security, including smartphones. That's the point of the above research by Mozilla I linked above. Car brands' are more top hat, cape and mustachio than tinfoil hat, with some three stooges mixed in. Stellantis suffered a major recall after 2 hackers gained control of a Cherokee a few years ago.

Several automakers put it on the driver's legal responsibility to get consent for their tracking your passengers, including minors. Many terms of service (ToS) allow them to track things like sexual activity (WTF), intelligence, immigration status, race, facial expressions, weight, health and genetic information (also WTF), and access data on your phone. These are all actually in various automakers' ToS. You tie that data to systems like LexisNexis or Palantir and it can affect your job prospects, loans, and of course legal predicaments.

A wild read is Hank Asher's story, (The Man Who Trapped Us in Databases), ex-cocaine smuggler turned government/industry data oracle and the founder of several data fusion companies like LexisNexis.

btw, if you wish to increase your phone's privacy/security: Android | iOS

Curious how you think a Gladiator is tracking any of that stuff you mentioned.

Spoiler: it isn't.

If it were, that would clearly be a much different conversation. But it isn't. Putting out a catch-all ToS example as though it's what your truck is actually doing is disingenuous.

I'm all for awareness, but let's not manufacture a situation where it doesn't exist. Unless of course you're just trying to appeal to the tin foil hat crowd.

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[montechie]

Curious how you think a Gladiator is tracking any of that stuff you mentioned.

Spoiler: it isn't.

If it were, that would clearly be a much different conversation. But it isn't. Putting out a catch-all ToS example as though it's what your truck is actually doing is disingenuous.

I'm all for awareness, but let's not manufacture a situation where it doesn't exist. Unless of course you're just trying to appeal to the tin foil hat crowd.

Again, I already linked to the specific research for Jeep in my first post. It's not disingenuous to expect minimal literacy, RTFM.

Jeep/FCA specifically for all UConnect services, apps, and vehicles:

Jeep/FCA says they can collect a massive amount of personal information and vehicle data on you from your Jeep, the Jeep app, and the UConnect connected services if you use them. So many things like your name, precise geolocation, Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), driver’s license number, and other government identifiers, browsing history, search history, biometric identifiers, such as fingerprints or facial templates, and more. Oh, and then they say they can also collect more data on you from third party sources such as data brokers, social media, and car dealers.

"performance data, and other sensor data generated by your Vehicle, images, and event data generated in connection with certain Connected Services (such as autonomous driving and distracted driver features), data from third-party account services that you link to your Connected Services account (e.g., Amazon Alexa), and images captured in connection with vehicle camera record." Then there's all the driving data they say they can collect on you. Things like, "speed, acceleration and braking data; direction of travel; trip data (e.g., mileage, date, time, weather conditions, location, route taken); ignition events; steering events; cruise control data; seatbelt status; information about Vehicle incidents or events; other information about how you drive a Vehicle; and associated date/time stamps for such information."

...they (Jeep) go on to say they can use much of this personal information and car data to draw inferences about you "to create a profile reflecting an individual’s preferences, characteristics, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence, abilities or aptitudes."

There's a whole section at the bottom with the Jeep language specifically as well. That includes such gems as:

Inferences drawn from other personal information that we collect to create a profile reflecting an individual’s preferences, characteristics, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence, abilities or aptitudes, information about an individual’s educational history, audio, electronic, visual, thermal, olfactory, or similar information,

 

[Outback_Joe]

Thanks everyone for the loooong conversation. I made it through a cup of coffee . But really if you want off grid you will need to move to Mars. But even that won't work because they have cameras there too. I guess you'll just have to stay here with all of us meat ? stew'ers. The only way to go off grid is to build a way back machine and set it for the early 1800s. But it's a nice dream, if only.

 

[sharpsicle]

Again, I already linked to the specific research for Jeep in my first post. It's not disingenuous to expect minimal literacy, RTFM.

Jeep/FCA specifically for all UConnect services, apps, and vehicles:







There's a whole section at the bottom with the Jeep language specifically as well. That includes such gems as:

I agree it's not "disingenuous to expect minimal literacy". I see you failed that, though, as you're not actually addressing the point I was making and then tell me to go RTFM. Real nice.

I could care less what the ToS says or what the app does, if the truck itself isn't capable of capturing that information in the first place then it doesn't really matter when talking about the vehicle's systems. And considering a ToS is often written as a legal catch-all to mitigate as many potential liabilities as possible, rather than written for exact specific use cases, it's an important thing to point out.

A ToS isn't an operating manual or a spec sheet. It's a risk mitigation document. It's just there to cover their asses, regardless of the actual capability of the hardware.

I feel like you're intentionally blurring the lines between what a ToS says and what is really occurring at the vehicle hardware level. And even more so by not recognizing that the truck hardware and the Jeep app are different and should be looked at separately. If we could do that, I think you might find we're closer to similar than different opinions on this.

 

[turtle]

buddy, i promise you that you are not that interesting. it doesn't matter.

they just want to tell you a toaster more efficiently and know shit about traffic.

I leave all the tracking shit on because i always need an alibis, amazon suggestions, and someone in the CIA needs a job.

go about your life, take off the tinfoil hat, it doesn't matter.

https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/138/

Listen to the whole episode if you have time, but definitely the bit that starts around 34:00.

One piece of information is meaningless. Thousands of little bits make something.

Scammers don't care who you are or whether or not you "have something worth taking." Technical capability today supports a shotgun approach of ripping off thousands of people for whatever they can get.

 

[Gladiatorboi99]

Oh but wait it gets worse, for all those thinking your phone is bad, your car is creeping on you way worse. The Mozilla Foundation (Firefox, privacy focused research NPO) concluded a recent study of auto brands terms of service, tracking, and privacy, that cars are the worse product for horrible privacy they've ever researched. Jeep wasn't the worse (6th from the "best") but all 25 they reviewed were horrible:

It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy
TLDR:
1. They collect too much personal data (all of them)
2. Most (84%) share or sell your data
3. Most (92%) give drivers little to no control over their personal data
4. We couldn’t confirm whether any of them meet our Minimum Security Standards

Jeep Review

So wait, mine has a connected services delete, listed on the window sticker. Does that mean I’m good?

 

[RubiNewbCB]

https://www.unplugged.com/
you need this phone.

 

[doc-ketamine]

I leave all the tracking shit on because i always need an alibis, amazon suggestions, and someone in the CIA needs a job.

My FBI guy is Chet. He's a good guy, he reminded me to go home and close my garage door when I left it open. He chuckles when he sees my search history.

 

[montechie]

So wait, mine has a connected services delete, listed on the window sticker. Does that mean I’m good?

That would probably help, and not connecting a profile between mobile/web Jeep apps + a VIN. If your vehicle can update the infotainment system on it's own then it can share data via it's own cellular. With Jeep at least opting out of Connect limited what they collect via their ToS. Which is why Mozilla scored them higher (6ish?).

I've worked on mobile/auto apps with a few teams, it's the combo of connecting auto apps to mobile/web profiles via the apps that provides the most identifying behavior data, mapping vehicle analytics back to profile data either in an explicit profile, or via analytics tracking, manufacturer SDKs are much different and allow more access. A JT/JL itself has similar sensors as a phone such as the cell/GPS (receive only)/accelerometer/microphone, except no camera, some features accessible to 3rd parties like our team. Auto/Carplay limit much of that, with per manufacturer SDKs allowing different higher access (accelerometer data for instance).

 

[RubiNewbCB]

Imagine all this teack8ng being used against you during warranty claims.

 

[Blade1668]

I have worked for DoD with just about every letter agency you know and some you don't, going on 26 years now.

If your level of paranoia is this elevated.........Off the grid is a much bigger then you think. You can not travel anyplace with out your picture being taken 100s or 1000s of times, can't step in to an airport, travel on major highway or in any city environment. Want about RFID tracking you, the EZ Pass you have to pay tolls on the highway.......notice if you don't have one, they still find you.

Then finances, can't use anything but cash........but to spend it you have to go into a store....surprise more cameras. But, where are you going to get the cash from???? A bank? well surprise again......more cameras and every transaction you make is still recorded. If you try to withdraw or deposit a certain amount of cash......more paperwork for the IRS.

Get sick or injured, got go to a medical provider......more cameras. You have to pay for the services rendered right????? More documentation, insurance, credit card transaction(but you shouldn't have one right? Ok, wanna pay cash, do you think medical providers are taking cash at all???........wishful thinking.

I won't even go down the cell phone rabbit hole. What about the internet??? You have to pay an ISP right or if the slick answer is using some free Wifi......the joke is defiantly on you more cameras and if you're using free wifi that means you have to be paying for a VPN service, if not, well thats a new level of stupidity ......but regardless of what you think you know or do.......its can ALL, yes ALL be tracked and be associated back to you.

I have been working in Cyber incident response, policy, vulnerability assessments and ethical hacking for along time. Want me to tell you how to run a denial of service on your personal wireless network, how to run a denial of service attack on the card readers at you work place for under a dollar and I could go on and on......maybe clone your fob for the gym or gated community you live in within 5-9 seconds. Too easy, what you know is not the scary stuff, its the stuff you do not know about.......trust me Karen in the Facebook chat isn't aware either.

I could go on and on. But society as a whole will value convenience over security everyday of the week. People use the term off the grid in a very half ass approach; its all or nothing. That's vastly different then minimizing your digital footprint.

Feel free to discuss. With my credentials and back ground.......the "stuff" inside of your 2020-23 Gladiator is the last thing you should be concerned or worried about. IMO

As someone who has seen the D.N.S. attack done, they can block in and outbound phone calls computer traffic. That was 21 years ago. Many details of my experience on it, I wouldn't post on open forums, it was a personal experience this event. I've seen other ones done, just about every person on earth is identified and in a database somewhere.
I was working with facial recognition and biological identification systems in 07-09. That includes voice recognition programs even, it can pick out specific voices in crowds of voices. Oh, the Facebook security or privacy policy and settings is laughably.
The vehicle apps are flat out silly on tracking, between the 2 Jeep apps and the Polaris app on my phone track me probably even when I go to the bathroom.

 

[BearFootSam]

Hello dear jeepers, here comes a hate speech.
I hate the fact that Stellantis company collects all the data about me, ie how, where and when I use my Jeep. The most hateful part is that there is no way to opt out of it.
I personally do not find any "connected" features useful: navigation system is no better than google maps, SOS call assistance have no guarantee to work where there no cell phone coverage and so on.
I also do not remember signing any agreement on my data collection and processing.
Question: has anybody found a way to get off the grid?

Hey at least it’s just a cellular connection and they aren’t pushing to sat yet. If we actually go ‘off the grid’, as in no cell service, no data stream.

 

[ttn333]

buddy, i promise you that you are not that interesting. it doesn't matter.

they just want to tell you a toaster more efficiently and know shit about traffic.

I leave all the tracking shit on because i always need an alibis, amazon suggestions, and someone in the CIA needs a job.

go about your life, take off the tinfoil hat, it doesn't matter.

You, sir, have not seen enough movies or watch enough TV.

 

[Komesk]

Update for those who is interested:

here is the most comprehensive information I could find about the data collected by Uconnect.

https://www.driveuconnect.com/connectedservices/privacy.html

Good news! - there is a way to disconnect from this unsolicited service:
search for "cancel for privacy reasons " towards to the end of the page.

 

[Hootbro]

Update for those who is interested:

here is the most comprehensive information I could find about the data collected by Uconnect.

https://www.driveuconnect.com/connectedservices/privacy.html

Good news! - there is a way to disconnect from this unsolicited service:
search for "cancel for privacy reasons " towards to the end of the page.

I bet it still pings the cell towers that will still log it even after you disconnect from the Uconnect service.

(ii) most Connected Services will not be available to you, including emergency and roadside services and Wi-Fi-enabled services; and

Keyword there is "most" not "All".

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