GVWR

[ShadowsPapa]

Is the diesel

@ShadowsPapa – thanks for the reply, I actually JUST found example numbers here on the site, it's not encouraging:

For the specific Willys EcoDiesel that was posted:

GVWR: 6350lbs
Payload: 1114lbs

Not encouraging since we want to put an Alu-Cab canopy camper on the rear. Seems the only model with at least somewhat reasonable payload is the Sport with Max Tow Package (which isn't available with an EcoDiesel). Bummer. Need to look more into this.

Is the diesel a must have?? If so, why?

People buy diesels for the engine, not for payload. You want cake, icing, ice cream, too.
These aren't sold for stellar payload abilities, never were.
If you want payload, you need the max tow.
If you do the Gladiator, you are already in compromise territory. It's a Swiss Army Knife - does a ton of things, but not any of them perfectly. Everything it does, it does with the idea that there's a number of vehicles that do that thing better.
It's just not a purpose vehicle, it's a multi-purpose vehicle. To get off-road, you give up some other abilities.

You are going to be over the stickered GVWR no matter what you do more than likely. There just isn't enough documented payload to do much without going over. Assuming you plan to lift your truck, there are plenty of offerings that will enhance the suspension for safer operation.

How will lifting make it safer with a heavier payload? You raise the center of gravity. It's a given, lifts lower towing and payload.
You can enhance "safe operation" with far superior shocks and springs and sway bars and track bars and more - without a lift. But you start putting weight up high on a vehicle that was never designed for it in the first place, then make it sit even higher, seems a bit odd.

I'd absolutely replace shocks and springs. He could put on far better shocks just by getting out of the stock shocks. Almost anything would be better.
There are multi-rate springs that would give it a nice ride, better ability, and keep the stock height for safety.
Lifted isn't safer when your load is already going to be way up high on the truck.
These are designed with the idea of payload being on the floor of the bed and in the seats. Not above the cab.

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[steelponycowboy]

Is the diesel

Is the diesel a must have?? If so, why?

People buy diesels for the engine, not for payload. You want cake, icing, ice cream, too.
These aren't sold for stellar payload abilities, never were.
If you want payload, you need the max tow.
If you do the Gladiator, you are already in compromise territory. It's a Swiss Army Knife - does a ton of things, but not any of them perfectly. Everything it does, it does with the idea that there's a number of vehicles that do that thing better.
It's just not a purpose vehicle, it's a multi-purpose vehicle. To get off-road, you give up some other abilities.


How will lifting make it safer with a heavier payload? You raise the center of gravity. It's a given, lifts lower towing and payload.
You can enhance "safe operation" with far superior shocks and springs and sway bars and track bars and more - without a lift. But you start putting weight up high on a vehicle that was never designed for it in the first place, then make it sit even higher, seems a bit odd.

I'd absolutely replace shocks and springs. He could put on far better shocks just by getting out of the stock shocks. Almost anything would be better.
There are multi-rate springs that would give it a nice ride, better ability, and keep the stock height for safety.
Lifted isn't safer when your load is already going to be way up high on the truck.
These are designed with the idea of payload being on the floor of the bed and in the seats. Not above the cab.

Bottom line the JT is more of a toy than a work truck. If you need a work truck, buy a Ford Super Duty or something similar.

My JT weighs in at 6500 pounds. I have the eco diesel. You need the torque of the diesel if you are going to be doing any off roading to make up for the weight of all your stuff.

My new 4 Wheel Campers Project M comes in at 352 Lbs, add my gear and I'm over the GVWR. Simple as that.

In Moab this week, doing some moderate to difficult trails and no issues. Cache Valley Road out of Arches was a try challenge. Fins and Things was fun. More trails the next few days.

 

[bleda2002]

Pretty much any overland gladiator is easily over the hilariously low gvwr. The soft springs and shocks of the gladiator are a major contributor to the low gvwrs so upgrading to stiffer springs and better shocks will easily control more weight. No you cant change the sticker, but unless you're commercial or live in some place like australia, being a few hundred pounds over isnt going to cause you issues.

 

[cug]

Is the diesel a must have?? If so, why?

No, of course not. The whole vehicle isn't a must have, it's a way of getting around the way we like to get around. The diesel just makes it a nicer way of getting around. There are benefits with diesel (fuel consumption, range doesn't drop as sharply offroad, more torque, more "relaxed" driving, not as easily combustible) as well as gasoline engines (no DEF, no DPF, easier availability, no messing around with DEF range going crazy, etc.).

Overall, I prefer a well working diesel over a well working gasoline engine for the way it develops torque.

People buy diesels for the engine, not for payload. You want cake, icing, ice cream, too.

I'm actually not sure, whether this is just the "American way of seeing things" – it feels wrong to have to buy a MASSIVELY bigger rig, just to get a reasonable payload. It just should not be necessary. Our LC79 isn't any bigger than the Wrangler, okay, it can't be used it for rock crawling, but it still has a payload more than twice as high. And when I look around, the only "compact" truck that through the lineup has decent payload here in the US seems to be the Ford Ranger.

The LC79 pretty good offroad and drives reasonable on-road. The picture below is with one spring leaf still out and with all fluids just filled and my wife inside the camper, so max load on the rear. Would I do rock crawling or difficult trails with this? No, but I don't have to. We enjoy camping off the beaten path and away from people and traveling in areas where there aren't (m)any paved roads, not extreme off-roading.

I'd absolutely replace shocks and springs. He could put on far better shocks just by getting out of the stock shocks. Almost anything would be better.

That's interesting. Our initial thought was to get a Mojave due to the added strengthening (steering, frame), but it seems to be very single purpose with a soft suspension and something that would be a shame to first pay for and then replace right away. Then I started making comparison sheets and collecting data on GVWR, payload etc, which lead me to the questions here.

Personally, I don't need to lift a Gladiator. I'm generally fine with the 10 to 11 inches of ground clearance and being more careful with my line or putting rocks or Maxtrax out to help. What I need is the truck to handle the load of travel gear well.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I'd say buy the trim level that suits your desires and plan on building the suspension the way you want for the loads required. I seriously doubt you are going to be happy with any of the trim's suspension with the payload you have in mind much of it staying on the truck daily. I have yet to sample the standard red Tenneco shock they are installing now, but I'm sure they aren't much better if any than the OE Fox 2.0?

I kept flipping which trim level to buy knowing full well I could easily change ratio, suspension, and lockers myself. I almost went High Altitude for the most comfortable interior, but settled on the Rubicon because it just made sense for me to get most of what I wanted out of the box, more equipment covered by insurance without a special policy, and a possible higher resale value later?

If you didn't want the diesel I'd say get the "Max Tow" so you get the most payload and springs most likely to suit your use, but the diesel is such a joy to drive in the mountains with a load and the extra range is nice!

 

[cug]

If you didn't want the diesel I'd say get the "Max Tow" so you get the most payload and springs most likely to suit your use, but the diesel is such a joy to drive in the mountains with a load and the extra range is nice!

You're basically speaking my mind here ... I'm still looking into the diesel right now. Our current US rig is SUV + trailer and we'd really like to trim down to a single vehicle, that brought me to think so hard about the various Gladiator trims.

Brain says Sport S with Max Tow, heart says Willys or Rubicon with diesel.

 

[CrazyCooter]

You're basically speaking my mind here ... I'm still looking into the diesel right now. Our current US rig is SUV + trailer and we'd really like to trim down to a single vehicle, that brought me to think so hard about the various Gladiator trims.

Brain says Sport S with Max Tow, heart says Willys or Rubicon with diesel.

It mostly comes down to whether or not you are willing to go over the GVWR number. It's been 2 years and 38K miles for us and I still stand behind my decision to buy what I have with zero regrets.

That said........I have yet to see an single JL/JT in the shop with a bearing or axle housing issue nor have I had one with mine (knock on wood) and I drive off road and faster than most people that I know! I do plan to add a truss to my front axle housing though. TJ's and JK's had issues with axle housings for sure.......

 

[cug]

We just went for it ... we'll certainly try to keep the weight reasonable and only get options we are really going to use (and need, from experience). There will be no "just in case" items on this car like there are on the Land Cruiser ...

Here it is:

 

[CrazyCooter]

We just went for it ... we'll certainly try to keep the weight reasonable and only get options we are really going to use (and need, from experience). There will be no "just in case" items on this car like there are on the Land Cruiser ...

Here it is:

Congrats!

You settled on a Rubi build....Did you go gas or diesel?

I was thinking of you yesterday as I rolled over the scale at the dump with a 200lb cardboard bale in the bed at 6820lb.

 

[cug]

Diesel. It was a good fit for us. Not many options, pretty much a normal Rubicon, with saddle brown leather - maybe that got us the massive discount … takes some getting used to. ;-)

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