Sponsored

High Altitude Gladiator for highway use?

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,081
Reaction score
34,559
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
You are pushing a brick through the air - and now, a slightly taller, heavier brick.
Wind resistance, to put it most simply, increases exponentially, studies from the 70s found the biggest savings was found by keeping highway speeds down 60 and above you really start to notice the loss ramp up, 60 and under you see fair savings. I've noticed mine, well, even my Silverado, lost the most MPG when I pushed above 65. 55-65 I got decent mileage.
I'm not advocating you drop down to 55 LOL - just explaining why your mpg sucks.
It's not a straight ramp as far as loss - the faster you go, the more the loss accelerates.
Frankly I'd see 17 as decent at your speeds. 80 is a killer for mpg.
And it's going to be worse with that added height or frontage.
Dunno know where you live - maybe you'd get killed going slower than 75 - but for kicks, try 75 or lower just once and see what a difference it makes. (I've heard parts of Florida they revoke your life insurance for driving under 80 LOL)
Sponsored

 

BearFootSam

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Oct 12, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
472
Reaction score
693
Location
PNW
Vehicle(s)
22' Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Fed
Max tow springs are a good inch+ SHORTER than the factory Overland springs.
Overland springs are definitely softer - lower rate, than max tow.

When I swapped springs and sat the truck back down on the floor - the truck sat about the same. The curb height was basically unchanged - but - the ride was changed - it's stiffer and doesn't stick to the road in rough conditions like it did with the stock Overland springs. That's because lower spring rates allow the tire to be kept against the road better.
So I gained no height, I lost no height, I changed the ride characteristics and I made the truck stick to the road less with the higher spring rate. But it doesn't sag as much under heavy load. I gave up rough road stability to get cargo carrying.

Bottom line - same exact ride height, bumpier ride, not as stable on railroad tracks and washboard roads.

Rubicon springs, GENERALLY SPEAKING" are a soft ride for the articulation needed and to keep the tires stuck to the ground under rough conditions - responding to rocky and rough ground. But they are a bit longer to compensate for the added weight of the Rubicon (and other reasons)

I'd really set things on fire if I posted clips from my college suspension tech books........... and the links I have when our internet is back up and I'm not tethered to a phone sitting up at the peak of the 2nd story of my shop building 30' in the air.
A tidbit from one of the older books "torsion bars are true springs".......... the books were written by automotive engineers with content supplied by Ford, GM and Chrysler.
My 70 Javelin front springs (yes, COIL springs) - the "go pack" springs were heavier springs. If I had wanted to put new stock springs under it - there was roughly 1 page of springs to choose from. Car always sat at the same height so it wasn't a matter of raising or lowering it - it was for changes in the ride and for turning for different purposes. Shocks were all the same.
My parts books reveal that there were more spring options for cars in the 60s through 80s than almost any other part. Page after page of springs. Some models had full pages of various springs. And it wasn't all based on the engine or AC vs non-AC.
We're not that far off with the Gladiator - the number of springs used under these trucks is pretty impressive. And yet - other than trim level differences, the shocks are the same. Rubicon - all got the same shocks regardless of spring. Overland - same shocks regardless of springs used.
I'd be curious to know if the steel bumper group comes with uprated front springs. I had expected much more of a 'penalty' from adding the weight of a 10k winch and mounting plate to the front end than I felt. Now I don't know off-hand what the weight penalty is between the standard front bumper of the steel, but if it's 50lbs+, with the winch and plate let's say it's ballpark +200lbs to the base plastic unit, and at the very, very nose end of the truck to boot. I do think it's offset a tad by the bed being cantilevered behind the rear spring perches such that a load in the rear of the bed should lighten the front end (which was my experience towing).

What I do know so far as the rear springs in a JTR with tow package is that the truck rides best with 2-300lbs in the bed. The back end stays more planted, working within the full dynamic range of the spring/shock setup and less apt to fully extend harshly on rebound after a sharp speed bump. Given how 'soft' the springs are overall, the truck does well with up to 800lbs in the bed before it starts to feel like stiffer springs are in order.

I'm ordering air-bags for the rear springs to see how they improve laden handling. Down the line when she's in need of a refreshed suspension I'll then probably test out some heavier progressive rears.
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,081
Reaction score
34,559
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
I'd be curious to know if the steel bumper group comes with uprated front springs. I had expected much more of a 'penalty' from adding the weight of a 10k winch and mounting plate to the front end than I felt.
I can't speak for specifics or current, but at least a couple of years ago there were multiple front spring numbers for Rubicon JTs.
There were at least 2 or 3 possible combinations of front springs.
The only reason I could see is that some would be heavier due to added equipment, such as a steel bumper vs. "plastic" and skid plates. Ideally you match spring rate with vehicle weight, heavier vehicle should get higher spring rate. There's a great video explaining the whys and hows of it all if i can find it again.
 

BearFootSam

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Oct 12, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
472
Reaction score
693
Location
PNW
Vehicle(s)
22' Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Fed
If my wife had been with my on my trip to town this AM - I'd have had her do a video of the drive - secondary highways, our county road, and interstate. You could hardly see me moving the steering wheel at all for most of the trip. And for good reason - I didn't need to. Gotta get a video made. It would make those TV and movie scenes where the "driver" is constantly moving the steering wheel look like he was in some arcade game or something. If they used me driving my truck for a TV show scene - they'd not be happy because it would look like I was just sitting there for most of it - and I was.
I decided to keep track of how much "correcting" was needed, see if there was any pull, just so I could convince myself - no, that's really how I remember it. I bet on the better roads I wasn't moving my hand even 1/8". Sometimes I wonder - am I REALLY remembering it correctly? Yup.
I suspect some complaints of 'wandering' are in part a consequence of drivers over managing the steering. The solid axle transmits forces such as a pothole to the opposing side of the truck such that you sense more movement but the truck doesn't necessarily change course. Given the comparatively heavy and slow steering, if a driver tries to counteract the cross axle forces they will tend to induce wandering rather than control it. If on a straight road I loosen my grip on the wheel and hit a bump, the truck will move but generally tends to maintain the path of travel without input.
Taking an analogy from motorcycling, the quick steering of a bike requires a rider to look ahead through a turn as far as visible rather than looking at the front wheel which would lead to over steering. The JT isn't so different in that you will have a much more linear driving path if you steer 1,000 feet ahead. In a typical sedan the steering is direct enough that this isn't so much of an issue, exacerbating the apparent steering woes for drivers who switch between vehilces often.
 

Bobbyfanman17

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
66
Reaction score
65
Location
St. Louis, MO
Vehicle(s)
2001 Jeep Gladiator
to the OP.

I don't think that any version of a Gladiator is going to actually be a GOOD highway vehicle in the same way that a full sized pickup truck can be.

Its interesting they each have benefits on the road.
1) high altitude is clearly street oriented, but with 20" wheels and low profile tires, it may actually ride worse than other models. Low profile tires and big wheels are for performance not luxury.

2) The Overland is clearly not a hard core model and the one I drove rode decently with little tire noise from its road oriented tires.

3) The Mojave I drove actually rode the best of all of them. It seemed to be softer sprung and better damped, with better body control. However the tires were relatively loud compared to the Overland I've driven.

All of them will suffer in wind noise from the removable roof and doors, both of which are necessarily flimsy compared to non-removable equivalents on other trucks.

In short, I believe that any of these trucks will be tiring in comparison to the vehicles you currently have.

Also - ignore the people who say "I drove 1700 mies and it was fine" if the've owned primarily jeeps.

What matters is the guy who has owned a Audi, a Suburban or F150 king ranch who says "I drove mine 1700 miles and it was fine.

Jeep enthusiasts tend to overlook obvious deficiencies in these vehicles.
I realize this is a '21 post but I had to comment on your comments, which were dead on. My '21 Sport S wears me out a bit on the highway after a few hours, and my wife hates it. I'm thinking of trading up to a Mojave since prices have dropped so much, but I'm going take a beating on my trade in. Maybe I should just trade in my wife! lol
 

Sponsored

Mr._Bill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
5,149
Reaction score
5,403
Location
North Las Vegas, NV
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Overland - 2013 Nissan Leaf SV
Vehicle Showcase
1
I realize this is a '21 post but I had to comment on your comments, which were dead on. My '21 Sport S wears me out a bit on the highway after a few hours, and my wife hates it. I'm thinking of trading up to a Mojave since prices have dropped so much, but I'm going take a beating on my trade in. Maybe I should just trade in my wife! lol
My Overland did great on the highway, but that was the intent with that trim level. It came with street tires, like the High Altitude it was replaced with. I run the pressure a little higher to help with MPG, but it still has a good ride.
 

Wheelin98TJ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
1,893
Reaction score
2,144
Location
Devils Lake, MI
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Gladiator
Occupation
Bean Counter
I realize this is a '21 post but I had to comment on your comments, which were dead on. My '21 Sport S wears me out a bit on the highway after a few hours, and my wife hates it. I'm thinking of trading up to a Mojave since prices have dropped so much, but I'm going take a beating on my trade in. Maybe I should just trade in my wife! lol
#1 in the post you quoted doesn’t seem dead on to me.

1) high altitude is clearly street oriented, but with 20" wheels and low profile tires, it may actually ride worse than other models. Low profile tires and big wheels are for performance not luxury.
20” wheels and 32” tires gives you 12” total sidewall or 6” per side. That’s not low profile. You don’t need more than 6” of tire sidewall for it to ride good.
 

Bobbyfanman17

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
66
Reaction score
65
Location
St. Louis, MO
Vehicle(s)
2001 Jeep Gladiator
#1 in the post you quoted doesn’t seem dead on to me.



20” wheels and 32” tires gives you 12” total sidewall or 6” per side. That’s not low profile. You don’t need more than 6” of tire sidewall for it to ride good.
Yes, you are correct, I was commenting more on the overall general spirit of his text, that no Gladiator is really going to be good highway vehicle, they suffer from wind noise with the doors and roof, the vehicle will be tiring to drive compared to the OP's current vehicles, ignoring people who say they drove 1700 miles and it was fine if all they have owned were jeeps and how Jeep enthusiasts tend to overlook the deficiencies of a Jeep.
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,081
Reaction score
34,559
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
Yes, you are correct, I was commenting more on the overall general spirit of his text, that no Gladiator is really going to be good highway vehicle, they suffer from wind noise with the doors and roof, the vehicle will be tiring to drive compared to the OP's current vehicles, ignoring people who say they drove 1700 miles and it was fine if all they have owned were jeeps and how Jeep enthusiasts tend to overlook the deficiencies of a Jeep.
Wind noise, yes, but tiring to drive? No.
And I come from a Silverado and a long line of Grand Cherokees and other cars and trucks.

My 2020 was my first "Jeep Wrangler style" Jeep.
So can't say I'd be a "Jeep enthusiast" who would tend to overlook deficiencies.
my wife owned only Camaros and Grand Cherokees up until we got my JT - and she's driven it across the country more than once........ it's just fine. Comfortable and easy to drive.
I suspect those who might see it otherwise are coming from a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus.
In fact, the JT is so not tiring to drive, we drove almost non-stop to Sarasota, FL from Des Moines area and then on the way back we did drive non-stop save for about 2 hours at a rest stop for sleep and gas.
Hours on the road, no breaks other than gas.
Sponsored

 
 



Top