I Got T-boned Today

[ShadowsPapa]

We have a lot idiots driving around here with no plates, insurance, etc. because of the "sovereign citizen" and "gubmint bad" nonsense. The police don't seem to care. It's hard to get the cops to even come out to an accident, they usually just say "exchange insurance and sort it out" over the phone.

Not disagreeing- but suggesting there are other things behind this - such as - DAs and prosecutors determine whether or not it's worthwhile to bring someone in.
And like the trooper who was handling the investigation with Dad's case - the sleeping 20 year old, their region used to have several dozen troopers assigned there. Now it's something less than 20 if I recall correctly.

Hashed out the judgement thing with attorneys - not worth it. We'd have been tied up in courts, the time to deal with it (taking time off work, appearing and so on) and when they rent, or have a cheap car, the law says you can't touch a home or a reasonable automobile. (a BMW or Mercedes isn't necessary for getting back and forth to work so you can go after those for example) but a Fusion or Focus - they are allowed one reasonable vehicle and one reasonable home untouched. If they never sell, you get nothing.
We weighed the odds and costs in money and time - it would have been a fair outlay of both and in the end it was a lottery ticket - pay out and likely never recover what you've put into it.
My youngest brother was so PO'd he was arguing and yelling at the lawyer and insurance company and yet as an insurance insider himself for several years - he knew the reality. I swear he'd have tried to literally squeeze it out of them if he thought he could.

What we lack these days is personal responsibility. 100 years ago, 200 years ago - you were held responsible. If you caused someone to lose $200, you had to make up for that loss plus a payment to society in general for your misbehavior. That's gone.
If you couldn't pay the other party back, you were publicly shamed and it was taken out in sweat equity.
A boss years ago had been through a number of college courses in finance and management and he had it right - if there is no consequence you care about, if the consequences are something you are willing to risk or won't harm you badly enough, you will go ahead. If you've never had good or times where you were happy at all, then consequences have no meaning - it's just another day, you've lost nothing.

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[Deleted member 57233]

if there is no consequence you care about, if the consequences are something you are willing to risk or won't harm you badly enough, you will go ahead. If you've never had good or times where you were happy at all, then consequences have no meaning - it's just another day, you've lost nothing.

This is also everywhere in the corporate world. When the punishments and fines are always less than the profits, it's just "the cost of doing business" and never a deterrent.

 

[Sandevino]

Having been poor in this country, I can tell you from experience the entire system is rigged to keep you poor and struggling. When you do get a little bit of money, you spend it on something to give you a brief glimpse of happiness, the crushing bills and responsibilities will still be there tomorrow.

Both my wife and I had to save up to be broke growing up.

We fell into the debt trap early in life as we didn’t know any better but about 15 years ago we pulled ourselves out, went without some things and now have no debt and our adult kids are breaking the cycle.

 

[steveorama]

I finally have an update from the shop on what they're replacing. Apparently this somehow took 3 weeks to put together.

Talking with the service advisor I'm not sure what to think as apparently part of the reason for the delay was one mechanic shop wanted to basically change out the entire front end drivetrain and suspension, but that was a price tag of around $9k just for that not including the body and paint work. So the insurance made them get an additional quote from another mechanic who came back with replacing the front axle housing, LT steering knuckle, sway bar, and LT sway bar link. Which is only like $6k in parts.

Additionally it's a new fender flare, replacement wheel, tire, and LT side step. He tried to sell this as good news as all of it was going to be new OEM parts which got me concerned as my side steps are Go Rhino aftermarkets. When I pointed this out to him he was pretty confused and he had to put me on hold and go and look. When he came back he said he messed up and he would be working on getting me the right part and he would have to ship back the incorrect part they already received. Since I also didn't see the bumper on his list, nor did he mention it, I asked about it as well and he was clueless about it. I pointed out where the damage was to the bumper and yet again he put me on hold to go take a look. When he returned again he said he missed that and would be ordering it right away.

I honestly don't know if I have a lot of faith right now in how this is going to turn out due to the lack of communication and missing some pretty obvious damage and parts.

 

[Viper501]

I’d suggest a third opinion on the suspension stuff. Stick to your guns on that.

 

[steveorama]

It's been a little over a month and I have an update to those of you following along.

I had to return my rental last week as my insurance would only cover 30 days with my policy. So it was good news that I got the call yesterday from the body shop that my Jeep was ready to go. I showed up in the afternoon and they took me over to see the repairs. The first thing walking up I noticed they installed the GoRhino side steps backwards. The wider portion is supposed to go to the front and it was facing to the back. My advisor said not a problem they could swap them around for me at the accessory shop that did the work anytime that I would like. The driver's side fender flare was replaced, new wheel, tire, front axle assembly, steering knuckle, sway bar, and sway bar link. The final bill provided shows $12k in work needed. Everything looked good there, but I noticed the hood was still sitting uneven and high on the driver's side.

This is something I pointed out the day I brought it in for the appraisal as he didn't mention it when he finished the initial appraisal. My advisor admitted he recalled me talking to him about it, but he got busy and forgot so he never made a note of it thus they never checked. What's upsetting is I even asked him about it on the phone a couple of times if the fender and hood were ok during the progress updates, and he said they were and there was no damage there. Looking closer at the hood the driver's side hood latch was hard to release and the passenger side grille has a small paint rub where the hood was making contact with the grille now. He asked to give him 10 minutes while he had one of his body guys take a look at it. He pulled back around and said his body guy looked at it and loosened up the fender bolts and if that was better and to keep in mind that body parts don't always sit perfect from the factory. I pulled out my phone and showed him some pics of the Jeep prior to the accident and showed how everything sat previously. We went and looked at another Jeep in their lot and I showed him the body lines and how mine was obviously out of alignment by about 1/2". He agreed and asked if I could leave it a couple days while they took the fender off to find and fix what was the issue and repaint the grille for me.

Well I just got the call from them a short while ago and apparently it's more than just a bracket pushed in or out of alignment. The frame is damaged and that's why the hood and fenders are out of alignment. They do have a frame machine there and he said they're notifying insurance now for their approval for the additional work and get approval, but he says he's confident they can get it fixed quickly. With that being said, this is the first vehicle accident I've had that has had frame damage. This is a new experience for me and I recall basically being told over the years that any frame damage basically meant your vehicle was totaled or was basically unsellable.

Obviously I know frame machines have been around for quite some time and that's probably exagerated, but now I'm looking at even if is repaired my Jeep will be worth significantly less value. I don't have the option of diminished value per my insurance since they're picking up the tab since it was an uninsured motorist claim. Would I be better off pushing/hoping/praying my insurance to total it out? Obviously they've already paid $12k to have it repaired to this point so I'm not sure how likely that is. Plus my same Jeep is probably now $5k higher (not including the mods/accessories I've added) than when I bought it in '21 and the financing rates are a lot higher too. I'm currently at 1.9% financing and I still owe about $7,500.

 

[dmwphoto]

At this point I think letting them finish the repairs is going to be your best and only viable option. Minor frame tweaks are not that bad and should not really alter the value over what is already affected. Get it fixed and enjoy it again. whole situation sucks but it is what it is.

 

[steveorama]

At this point I think letting them finish the repairs is going to be your best and only viable option. Minor frame tweaks are not that bad and should not really alter the value over what is already affected. Get it fixed and enjoy it again. whole situation sucks but it is what it is.

Agreed, just kinda going through the emotions right now. Like I said, just not really wanting to be in a situation where my Jeep is worth like 30-40% less because of "frame damage" branding on a CarFax report. The whole thing sucks though and for some reason it just keeps dominioing into more bad news.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Agreed, just kinda going through the emotions right now. Like I said, just not really wanting to be in a situation where my Jeep is worth like 30-40% less because of "frame damage" branding on a CarFax report. The whole thing sucks though and for some reason it just keeps dominioing into more bad news.

So the bad news on that, is the fact that there is now an accident listed on the VIN of the vehicle, the value reporting agencies are most likely devaluing the truck that much, without the mntion of frame damage...

I had a 2017 GMC Canyon, and had 2 claims where other drivers hit the front fenders. Both were parking lot level minor taps that needed just fender replacement and paint match. When I traded it in for the Gladiator, the dealer was only trying to pay about 60% of book value on trade, due to "Front end damage". We were fortunate, as I gave them photos and invoices showing that they were minor issues, and got the full trade... but be prepared that your truck is nowhere near the same value as it once was.

 

[KevinM60]

Agreed, just kinda going through the emotions right now. Like I said, just not really wanting to be in a situation where my Jeep is worth like 30-40% less because of "frame damage" branding on a CarFax report. The whole thing sucks though and for some reason it just keeps dominioing into more bad news.

I’m new to Jeeps but from what I’ve been reading on this forum it sounds like it would depend on the location of the frame bend. If it’s out at the bumper it can be straightened without affecting the functional alignment of the vehicle.
you definitely want to be a stickler on the repairs because whatever you end up with you’ll have to live with going forward. You pay for insurance for a reason .

 

[steveorama]

So the bad news on that, is the fact that there is now an accident listed on the VIN of the vehicle, the value reporting agencies are most likely devaluing the truck that much, without the mntion of frame damage...

I had a 2017 GMC Canyon, and had 2 claims where other drivers hit the front fenders. Both were parking lot level minor taps that needed just fender replacement and paint match. When I traded it in for the Gladiator, the dealer was only trying to pay about 60% of book value on trade, due to "Front end damage". We were fortunate, as I gave them photos and invoices showing that they were minor issues, and got the full trade... but be prepared that your truck is nowhere near the same value as it once was.

So you think I can convince a dealership it was just minor based on the small scratches to the fender and bumper I have pictured when it's time to trade in? LOL.

I'm sure it will be listed as major damage on any CarFax is my best assumption, but CarFax isn't the best either. I know CarFax didn't even show an accident on my last truck after I traded it in when I looked on their website and I know for a fact I got rear ended and had gotten clipped while parked in a parking lot and insurance fixed both. But I do appreciate the advice, I just know frame damage/repair has a larger stigma to future buyers vs body and paint work. It just sucks to not be at fault and since the other driver didn't bother to have insurance I'm left getting the shaft with out of pocket costs, diminished value, and the inconvenience.

I’m new to Jeeps but from what I’ve been reading on this forum it sounds like it would depend on the location of the frame bend. If it’s out at the bumper it can be straightened without affecting the functional alignment of the vehicle.
you definitely want to be a stickler on the repairs because whatever you end up with you’ll have to live with going forward. You pay for insurance for a reason .

From what I gather it's near the front by the radiator support. It's twisted enough to make the hood not align with the front fenders and grille by about 1/2". I'm not sure what that translates to how much frame twist there is though. Sadly I had to point this out to the shop or they were ready to send me on my way. As I've stated previously in this thread I haven't been very happy with this shop and they're a large chain of shops {cough Classic Collision cough} that handles lots of vehicles. It's like they're too busy to do a thorough job. Since insurance is picking up the tab I would of imagined they would look for as much damage as they could find. Seems like they're doing the opposite, at least with me anyway. I've had to point out a lot more than I would of anticipated. What happens to folks who don't have a clue at these shops?

 

[TheGrendel]

you need to file a Diminished Value claim as well.

 

[steveorama]

you need to file a Diminished Value claim as well.

To my knowledge I can't, although I had uninsured/underinsured coverage for injury apparently I didn't for property. It's on me I thought I had it, but I guess I didn't check a box when we switched insurance about 2 years ago. I've always carried it before which is the most frustrating part. So without the uninsured property coverage my insurance is running it under my collision coverage.

 

[KevinM60]

From what I gather it's near the front by the radiator support. It's twisted enough to make the hood not align with the front fenders and grille by about 1/2". I'm not sure what that translates to how much frame twist there is though. Sadly I had to point this out to the shop or they were ready to send me on my way. As I've stated previously in this thread I haven't been very happy with this shop and they're a large chain of shops {cough Classic Collision cough} that handles lots of vehicles. It's like they're too busy to do a thorough job. Since insurance is picking up the tab I would of imagined they would look for as much damage as they could find. Seems like they're doing the opposite, at least with me anyway. I've had to point out a lot more than I would of anticipated. What happens to folks who don't have a clue at these shops?

Speaking from past experience, the repair shop has to get approval from the insurance company who sometimes balks on some items. I think they like to use repair shops that aren't as detailed when they can. You will be the final inspector and it's worth it to stand your ground and push them to fix or replace everything that's damaged as much as possible. I didn't do that with my wife's Mustang and we had to deal with a misaligned transmission for years until we finally got rid of it.
Lesson Learned.

 

[Dick]

I like T bones. Sorry about your truck though, that sucks.

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