Is it me... Are are these backwards

[GeneralMaximus]

Huh, someone should tell my old car that Reverse is in the wrong spot.

Edit: Better CC VW on that email - because they made a lot of manuals with reverse next to 1st; like for decades levels of "a lot".

Porsche still puts Reverse in that top left spot.

Now if you really want to get confused, the classic Porsches with the dogleg shifter put Reverse where 1st gear normally is. And 1st gear is where 2nd gear normally is. The reasoning being, in a race, 2nd and 3rd gear are shifted into the most. So the best placement for 2nd/3rd gear are top center and bottom center.

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[Sweetums]

Porsche still puts Reverse in that top left spot.

Now if you really want to get confused, the classic Porsches with the dogleg shifter put Reverse where 1st gear normally is. And 1st gear is where 2nd gear normally is. The reasoning being, in a race, 2nd and 3rd gear are shifted into the most. So the best placement for 2nd/3rd gear are top center and bottom center.

Mercedes did that too with the 190 dogleg.
And I already mentioned VW.

 

[brsnow2585]

It's not really a shifter, it's an automatic top gear limiter. The pull back to 'shift up' is reminiscent to rally and drag racing, being pushed back under acceleration, back is easier. Had it in my '14 Cherokee, same in my '22 JTRD, really pretty useless unless you really need to blow past a goober on the interstate. It's still an automatic, if you go 'manual', say you set it at 4th, It'll shift up and down, but it won't go past 4th. It is a little helpful if you're towing and need some grunt but the transmission wants to go all the way up for economy.

 

[Chasm]

Not sure what point you're trying to make though.

Not falling for it this time.

 

[vicsvx]

So, It seems the consensus of this conversation is that we drive race trucks and that's why we pull back to shift up and push forward to downshift. Makes sense I guess... LOL (no really... Up to upshift and down to downshift!)

 

[Sweetums]

So, It seems the consensus of this conversation is that we drive race trucks and that's why we pull back to shift up and push forward to downshift. Makes sense I guess... LOL (no really... Up to upshift and down to downshift!)

If it was a column shift it would be “up” and “down”, but since it’s “forward” and “back” the axis translation is arbitrary anyway.

 

[vicsvx]

If it was a column shift it would be “up” and “down”, but since it’s “forward” and “back” the axis translation is arbitrary anyway.

True, but for the same of what is natual, natual instinct telling me to push up to shift up and pull back to shift down (did it multiple times on a downgrade and I kept shifting down when I wanted to go up)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

True, but for the same of what is natual, natual instinct telling me to push up to shift up and pull back to shift down (did you get it multiple times on a downgrade and I kept shifting down when I wanted to go up)

And people still ignore those drag racers using both up and down for upshifting on the track.
If it was so difficult to move forward to upshift, why do so many still do up, and even reach up or forward for switches?
Blows the drag racing argument away.
So let's stop using that argument because many go forward on an upshift or even reach forward for switches while accelerating toward 200 mph.

 

[Chasm]

True, but for the same of what is natual, natual instinct telling me to push up to shift up and pull back to shift down (did you get it multiple times on a downgrade and I kept shifting down when I wanted to go up)

Sure, but it seems for many of us, natural instinct is the opposite. Personally, I see pulling the lever back as sliding the gears forward due to the pivot point.

I spent years doing computer support for CAD. About 1 in 8 people wanted the mouse wheel to zoom in when they roll it forward. The rest want the opposite. Switching in that case was a simple line of code though.

 

[vicsvx]

And people still ignore those drag racers using both up and down for upshifting on the track.
If it was so difficult to move forward to upshift, why do so many still do up, and even reach up or forward for switches?
Blows the drag racing argument away.
So let's stop using that argument because many go forward on an upshift or even reach forward for switches while accelerating toward 200 mph.

My thoughts exactly. Pretty sure a racer can choose how they want to shift

Sure, but it seems for many of us, natural instinct is the opposite. Personally, I see pulling the lever back as sliding the gears forward due to the pivot point.

I spent years doing computer support for CAD. About 1 in 8 people wanted the mouse wheel to zoom in when they roll the mouse wheel forward. The rest want the opposite. Switching in that case was a simple line of code though.

And this is why I started this thread... Curious if it was a "me" thing, which it seems it is, with few exceptions.

 

[BearFootSam]

It's still that muscle memory. I've driven more miles on and off road in a standard transmission than I have in an auto - I was really happy to see pulling back was the upshift with this transmission, it just felt more natural to me.
I'm always shifting the wrong way whenever I borrow a car where up is forward; that was the case for me for years before getting my truck.

I very much agree with your sentiment. Then when I think about it deliberately, having owned motorcycles longer than cars or trucks in my life, pulling up / back / toward me with my toe = upshift; pushing down / away = downshift.

Now a really cool trick would be: keep the AT selector bump over as is to engage the manual shift function, BUT - implement the actual gear selection via a foot control. Something like a heel/toe version of the old high beam stomp buttons or an up/down toe lever like on a bike.

Something I miss about our JT being an automatic is not getting to use all limbs at once to control the machine. Folks who are content to let a car drive itself would hate the idea. I however quite love that competent motorcycle riding involves orchestrating all hands, fingers, feet and toes at once without even getting into body english. That's when I feel like I'm really driving the machine, not just operating an appliance. An appliance is fine if I'm just running to the shop on an errand, but otherwise driving these days just feels so devoid of skill and finesse. The jeep is at least engaging to drive in moderate or more difficult offroad travel. We still have buttons and levers and enough operator authority to have a sense of command over the vehicle. I dread the day when piloting a Jeep becomes a matter of dropping a pin on the map, pressing go and sitting back while the machine navigates to the destination.

 

[Sweetums]

And that's why I will always own motorcycles. Sure, there are companies trying to make self-riding motorcycles, but find me one rider who would want to be a passenger sitting on the back of a robot.

All the rest of the idiots on the road need to get some autonomous cars, at least they are predictable and less likely to merge into me while browsing tiktok and drinking a double tall soy half-caf mochafrapaalpachino with extra whip and sprinkles.

 

[BearFootSam]

It absolutely translates when you look at the reasoning behind why it "should" be forward for down and rearward for up. Momentum is momentum regardless the application. The only reason we use race cars to explain it is because in race cars the motion and function of it all is exaggerated to better understand why. The pattern PHRD321 is that way out of simplicity because 99% of drivers are only ever moving it to D, so it makes logical sense to place D before 321. But when it comes to manual shifting it doesn't make logical sense to push forward while being pulled back, or vice-versa. Also, those are also not meant to be shifted between in the same sense as a "manual shifter", they are meant for when you need to limit the gear the transmission is allowed to shift up to in applications like mountain driving or towing heavier loads.



I can kind of see the comparison. In an aircraft, you pull back to climb, which pushes you back in the seat. You wouldn't want to push forward to climb because its counter-intuitive to push forward while your body is getting pulled backwards. Same goes with shifting, pull back to upshift because it's also counter-intuitive the other way around.

Many people get confused with yoke controls and think they are backwards as well, and by backwards they think you should push forward to climb and pull back to dive, which also makes absolutely zero sense and my mind is blown everytime someone says that.

Well, people are idiots..

 

[BearFootSam]

Mine is "push hard right then back.
There's no push down. When in the gate, you have to pus a bit harder, you can't just slip over into reverse. But then, logically, there really isn't a need for any real lockout the way that pattern works. If you are pushing THAT hard, you need to service the thing.

i have had 'em with the ring lockout - those do work well.

I can't recall owning one with push down and shift in any stick I've owned.

The XJ I learned to drive in had reverse like that. Just don't forget after driving a modern six speed with the gated reverse or you might go for the deadly "6th" at highway speed.

 

[Gvsukids]

Well, people are idiots..

Are you a robot?

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