Is off roading too easy nowadays?

[professorkx]

That ship sailed a while ago for me. I’m on my second aftermarket tie rod.

stock toe setting should be helpful. I should finish the regear of the Dana 60 in the front of the motorhome by the end of the week, and will try and remember to post the measurement here.

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[PBCounty]

Ha, no, it's harder than ever - but only because we have nowhere to go anymore around here. Back in the 90's and into mid 2000's we'd all stand around arguing over where were going to go that day, all five mins from our houses. Now, barely anything.

 

[imallcrawl]

I used to hit the trails a lot but got tired of breaking sh!t - there will always be a trail harder than the previous. This is why imallcrawl now

 

[mtudb24]

Back in my younger years …. We had a built YJ on 35’s.

33’s were standard…..35’s were considered BIG ….and 37’s were HUGE (and rare).

But holy crap?? Nowadays……ya’ll are putting 37’s, 40’s, and 42’s…..

Back when the Rubicon first came out….. a friend of ours bought one… He kept it completely stock (car-like tires). He‘d climbed over everything making it look effortless. I remember the one day he had the jeep crawling on the trail while he was walking beside it.

SPOT on 100%. Also remember, back in the 80's and 90's, except for a few Ford models, nobody had lockers / LSD's in the rear AND FRONT. Ford F150 and Bronco's had an optional front LSD. GM was Gov Lock only in the rear. You had to either spend money on shop to install the front or do it yourself if you were so mechanically inclined. Nobody was running from the factory 33's or 35' or even 37's on trucks / jeeps. They were all built for the love of the challenge / sport.

Horsepower and torque was anemic back in the 70's/80's/90's trucks. Hell my original L05 GM 350 in my 1987 K5 was running 210hp and 305 ft lbs of torque turning a 5000+lb truck. We built our motors ( i put in a ZZ4 motor in my K5 in 1996, added front and rear lockers (got rid of the horrid Gov lock) and built our 4 speed 700R4 and added 35" Ground Hawgs and Swamper SSX's depending on the type of terrain I was running).

Another issue was axles. GM 10 bolts in 1/2 tons and you had to upgrade to a 3/4 ton to get a Dana 44's. Now Gladiators have HD 44's from the factory. Unless your running the monster tires, your could throttle up and abuse them pretty well where the 10 bolts would fail (again a Chevy or Ford or Dodge 1/2 weighs a lot more then the gladiator). We won't even talk about the old Jeep Dana 30 or 35 front axle.

Maybe you had a TH 350 or 400 3 speed auto. or a muncie 4 sped manual. Now we have 8 speed trans. NP 205 or NP 203 T-cases with part or full time 4wd with 2.72 low range vs a rubicon 4:1 ratio.

I will say what has gotten worse is the FAD vs a true solid axle with warn lock out hubs (god forbid you had the GM 4x4 auto lock outs).

Sway bar disconnects vs the horrid articulation in Jeeps, Toyotas, GM's, and Fords back in the day. Now it makes putting power to the ground easy as no wheel lift etc.

So yeah, I think its easier to wheel with a modern Jeep then back in the day.

HOWEVER, I will say that with 1 exception. An experienced driver in a less mechanically capable vehicle will usually outperform a newbie in a top of the line vehicle. Expertise is everything when driving offroad.

 

[mtudb24]

You haven't lived life as a true wheeler unless you wrench on the vehicles you own. Built not bought. My fellow college 4 wheeler group helped me rebuilt the bottom end of my 87 GMC Jimmy's TBI 350 by taking the crankshaft out out the bottom of the oil pan and replaced main bearings, crankshaft, installed a HV oil pump, pete jackson noisy gear drive, waterpump, etc in a parking deck in the UP of Michigan in 5 degree weather and spent 15 hours to do so. Then beat the shit out of the truck 2 days later on a wheeling run and she ran like a top. HAHHAHAH

 

[Supazuk]

You haven't lived life as a true wheeler unless you wrench on the vehicles you own. Built not bought. My fellow college 4 wheeler group helped me rebuilt the bottom end of my 87 GMC Jimmy's TBI 350 by taking the crankshaft out out the bottom of the oil pan and replaced main bearings, crankshaft, installed a HV oil pump, pete jackson noisy gear drive, waterpump, etc in a parking deck in the UP of Michigan in 5 degree weather and spent 15 hours to do so. Then beat the shit out of the truck 2 days later on a wheeling run and she ran like a top. HAHHAHAH

I love K5's my first rig was a 69 K5 4 inch sky jacker lift with general grabber 33's

 

[Janster]

HOWEVER, I will say that with 1 exception. An experienced driver in a less mechanically capable vehicle will usually outperform a newbie in a top of the line vehicle. Expertise is everything when driving offroad.

500% Truth!!!

It’s all about the driver & their decisions ….. Lots of ‘decisions’…..knowing your vehicle, picking the right line, gear/mode you’re in, throttle, steering, braking, etc.

When you have HUGE tires….and big lifts… you don’t have to THINK as much and minimal decisions. Or….you should be doing larger obstacles.

I guess it depends on what you want out of an offroad trip….. At my age now, I’d rather have a refreshing & relaxing drive (no thinking… the brain needs a break after a work week). Back when I was younger…… Yup…we put ourselves & that YJ thru some knarly stuff. Loved every minute of it.

I can’t imagine what the offroad culture will be in another 10-15 years from now.
Hopefully…. it still exists. If people would stop being ass-hats and getting our trails closed down. Everyone needs to get out and enjoy the outdoors (get OFF social media) but that’s a whole other discussion/thread.

 

[AKDrifter]

Man all this K5 talk is triggering memories. My K5 was the M1009 variant. 6.2 diesel you want to talk about gutless lol. It was terrible with open 3.08s even on stock tires. It eventually got 14 bolts out of an M1008 truck with the 4.56s. I'd get behind cars on the highway, wait til I was going down a hill and floor it to pass them. I'd hit the up side of the hill, lose steam before reaching the top, and just move back over. It was incapable of passing an 80s Dodge Caravan lol. With 4.56s it was better. I got it from the gov auction lot in '01 with 28xxx documented miles. It had 90k when I sold it. I dont ever miss it. But even after sitting in my garage for years I put 2 new batteries in it and it fired. Thing would not die. I only have a couple pictures of it. This was my first outing with it shortly after I'd got it. I dont have any cool buried to the doors in mud pictures. I never took enough photos.

 

[imallcrawl]

From the late 80's every vehicle I've owned, lifted or not, was built in my driveway and I'm not even a mechanic.

 

[mtudb24]

Man all this K5 talk is triggering memories. My K5 was the M1009 variant. 6.2 diesel you want to talk about gutless lol. It was terrible with open 3.08s even on stock tires. It eventually got 14 bolts out of an M1008 truck with the 4.56s. I'd get behind cars on the highway, wait til I was going down a hill and floor it to pass them. I'd hit the up side of the hill, lose steam before reaching the top, and just move back over. It was incapable of passing an 80s Dodge Caravan lol. With 4.56s it was better. I got it from the gov auction lot in '01 with 28xxx documented miles. It had 90k when I sold it. I dont ever miss it. But even after sitting in my garage for years I put 2 new batteries in it and it fired. Thing would not die. I only have a couple pictures of it. This was my first outing with it shortly after I'd got it. I dont have any cool buried to the doors in mud pictures. I never took enough photos.

Yup. Built right in Flint along wtih base models. not my photo but I always thought this was a sweet shot

 

[Blade1668]

I got it installed the day it came in. You should do a test drive, and feel the difference!

Most of my driving lately around here is in my Wrangler, so it would be different.
FYI you might recognize where the picture is at.

When I lived in GA. still I had a few pieces of angle steel cut and drilled to bolt on hubs for setting toe in on the 5×4.5 bolt pattern vehicles. Along with fabbed tools to hold pinion in place to remove/replace the pinion nut. Ahhh, time before everything and anything on the WWW. You had to get service manuals and chase down Matco /Snap-on tool trucks for over price tools you are going to use once or twice. H.F. tools were for trail use and emergency metal to weld to hold something together on trail. XJ's and MJ driver's were scorned "it's not a real Jeep" then pissed off when a XJ on 33's or 35's is a point and go or pulling them out of something. I had to pull some guys out new Chevy 4×4 when our hunting in river bottom land of Wabash River with my Comanche running 30 in MT's in early 90's.
Hmm, maybe I should stuff the axles from my old XJ in Comanche. Locked high pinion D-30 4:56 gears and OEM XJ D-44 when I finish replacing rusted out metal.
Something else about the turnkey available vehicle straight from dealership and set of 37 up tires, local trails became ho hum or blaa, more morons and then trashing trails etc then lot of places blocked off for trail riding.

I used to hit the trails a lot but got tired of breaking sh!t - there will always be a trail harder than the previous. This is why imallcrawl now

Them concrete curbs can scuff the chrome.
I've almost got hung up on one once.

One from when 35-38 was still big other than mud running.

And even with trees everywhere, the winch line was to short by about 30-40 ft.

 

[AKDrifter]

Yup. Built right in Flint along wtih base models. not my photo but I always thought this was a sweet shot

They're a cool piece of GM history. Mine being an Alaska truck had the complete original Stewart Warner swingfire heater setup which is that pipe in the front fender there. Super handy when I'd go to visit my then gf now wife who lived in Fairbanks. I met a guy at a gas station in Healy on a cold November night who told me he worked for the conversion company who did the northern climate bound CUCVs in the 80s he said they did the outfitting somewhere in Nevada I can't remember where now. Mine still had the bridge plates, functional black out lights, pintle hitch, radio mounts, it was pretty complete for what it was I got really lucky. I go to the gov lot in Wasilla every so often to look for an M998 and man they're hacked up, parted out, and non functional most of the time. The K5 was a really great truck I would have kept if any of my kids had shown an interest in getting it roadworthy again. None had even the slightest interest and I sold it to a kid and I've not heard or seen it since. My wife was sad it was gone. I'm indifferent. I only sell stuff I won't regret and I never thought twice about it.

 

[Supazuk]

Some folks unknowingly laughed at their diminutive size, but those Suzuki Samurais put many larger, heavier, more costly, 4x4's to shame on many tough trails.

They were so cheap especially immediately after the unfair flipping controversies (a coworker had one), and so much more desirable after fuel injection was added...

zuks WB can just get it

 

[Gvsukids]

I remember a while back somebody was fabricating tube doors and keeping this forum updated.

@Exceed Fabrication

Yep. I had one total alignment done on this a hundred years ago. They botched it and I had to fix it at home. Never gain.

After 4 years, I had Belle Tire do one and I can go back within a year to have it checked and redone

 

[Zachanadandy]

Shit. So I may have set it way off the last time I did it. Maybe I’ll forget the brackets and just use 4’ levels on each wheel with tires installed on the ground at level ride height next time. Thanks very much. Learned something important today.

I disagree with changing the toe with tire size changes. The actual spec is in degrees for a reason. That angle doesn't change no matter the tire size. A larger tire will measure more toe than a smaller one, at the same angle. That's part of why the bolt on toe plates are so popular for diy. The smaller diameter and accurately getting 1/16" to 1/8" will result in the proper angle. Throw a 42" tire on and measure and you'll likely see 3/8" of toe, which is still the proper angle.

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