Just looked my truck up on the mopar site...

[ShadowsPapa]

I’m actually surprised that we even still have hard print owners manuals. Sending out stickers for an owners manual? This isn’t the 1980s. Within the next five years hard print manuals will most likely be nonexistent, we are in a digital age. So despite whether you or FCA agrees with that, what they publish in a digital format they could be liable for. Especially if it is documented they were aware and did nothing about it.

LOL - telling ME this is the digital age. Get real - until or unless someone CONTACTS YOU, and legally, yes, it still must be U.S. Mail - those numbers in the book stand.

You are stuck on you and what you prefer or want - did you know there's a very large percentage of the human population that still prefers printed material - and I am not talking about "old people"?
You'll never get it - today, now, still, what's on that door sticker and in that BOOK is god as far as numbers. LEGALLY, they must make contact of changes. Regardless of what you and your gen x friends want, print will still be around for a while.
Paper is still the law. They can't rely on email to send changes or recall notices (email STILL loses things or doesn't always work) Doesn't matter how badly YOU want it that way, it is not that way. Face reality.
The owners' manual although available in PDF format - Jeep started including PRINTED books again after not doing so for a while. For a while all you had was digital - but Jeep realized they had so many requests for PAPER, they started including it again (according to a dealer who said they hadn't seen a paper manual for several months, then started getting them again)

Just because you want it a certain way doesn't make it so. There are laws and there are people other than you who have different needs and expectations. Might look outside and look around - George Jetson isn't your neighbor.

Sponsored

 

[Sparty]

I’m actually surprised that we even still have hard print owners manuals. Sending out stickers for an owners manual? This isn’t the 1980s. Within the next five years hard print manuals will most likely be nonexistent, we are in a digital age. So despite whether you or FCA agrees with that, what they publish in a digital format they could be liable for. Especially if it is documented they were aware and did nothing about it.

legal and liability.

Does 100% of our population have access to digital means (and internet)

 

[danielspivey]

legal and liability.

Does 100% of our population have access to digital means (and internet)

I just got a car seat... you know what? No printed manual. It referred you to a website with the manual.

Does every everyone have access to the internet? No they don’t... only about 90% do.

But you what else also? About 1/5 of the adults in the USA can’t read a newspaper. Oh wait.. could they read a manual? Who’s fault is that?

Despite y’all’s BS arguments, a company could be liable by posting something incorrect on The internet. This has been openly discussed in many occasions in many fields. Why does Twitter and Facebook remove posts with false info?

The real issue her is IF the info is incorrect, it has been documented that they were notified about it. But they haven’t removed the incorrect info on their site. This is where they would get in trouble.
What happened when Kia lied about their fuel economy? They paid a fine of 100 million. What about the Ford pinto and the issues with the gas tank? Executives faces criminal charges. What about Toyota and the gas pedal issue? They knew about it and Did nothing. They also got sued for over a billion dollars and had hundreds of personal injury lawsuits.

if someone towed 8100 lbs with a max tow based on the website, and got in wreck.. Jeep would loose, bottom line.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

if someone towed 8100 lbs with a max tow based on the website, and got in wreck.. Jeep would loose, bottom line.

I think this could only be possible if towing 8100lbs also kept the vehicle under the advertised GCVWR which is probably not likely.

Regardless it's bad form for Jeep to have such a discrepancy. This shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[Sparty]

I just got a car seat... you know what? No printed manual. It referred you to a website with the manual.

Does every everyone have access to the internet? No they don’t... only about 90% do.

But you what else also? About 1/5 of the adults in the USA can’t read a newspaper. Oh wait.. could they read a manual? Who’s fault is that?

Despite y’all’s BS arguments, a company could be liable by posting something incorrect on The internet. This has been openly discussed in many occasions in many fields. Why does Twitter and Facebook remove posts with false info?

The real issue her is IF the info is incorrect, it has been documented that they were notified about it. But they haven’t removed the incorrect info on their site. This is where they would get in trouble.
What happened when Kia lied about their fuel economy? They paid a fine of 100 million. What about the Ford pinto and the issues with the gas tank? Executives faces criminal charges. What about Toyota and the gas pedal issue? They knew about it and Did nothing. They also got sued for over a billion dollars and had hundreds of personal injury lawsuits.

if someone towed 8100 lbs with a max tow based on the website, and got in wreck.. Jeep would loose, bottom line.

With all the bean-counters out there (and if you work for a large company, you would live this situation daily), I can assure you that they would do everything possible to move away from print and into digital. This includes easy changes/updates (no obsolescence of material) to simply the savings of the material used and the headcount of people in charge of it.

There's a damn good reason why it hasn't happened yet across the board. I'm sorry if you can't comprehend that.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

legal and liability.

Does 100% of our population have access to digital means (and internet)

No, they do not. Further, a lot of people who own jeeps don't hang out on the web. It's a known fact that big parts of this state don't have access to "high-speed broadband" internet. They may have satellite - when it's not storming.
I've also asked more than a few people, after they mention my running a forum and doing other online things, why I got off work and went right back to a computer - so I asked - don't you?
No, 3/4 of the IT people I dealt with or worked with, said once they got off work, they didn't touch a computer again.
Most Jeep owners aren't even members of places like this.

 

[fun2drum]

Please forgive my ignorance but I've got to ask. How do I calculate the towing capacity from the information I see on my truck's door sticker?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just got a car seat... you know what? No printed manual. It referred you to a website with the manual.

Does every everyone have access to the internet? No they don’t... only about 90% do.

But you what else also? About 1/5 of the adults in the USA can’t read a newspaper. Oh wait.. could they read a manual? Who’s fault is that?

LOL - a car seat vs. a TRUCK.
So you'll never get it - don't know why we all keep trying.
90% - sorry, that's LAUGHABLE. No, not even that many have reliable broadband. That's a fact. I worked in IT myself and know the struggles so many people have with getting good internet.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Please forgive my ignorance but I've got to ask. How do I calculate the towing capacity from the information I see on my truck's door sticker?

The towing capacity is in a chart in the manual.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

With all the bean-counters out there (and if you work for a large company, you would live this situation daily), I can assure you that they would do everything possible to move away from print and into digital. This includes easy changes/updates (no obsolescence of material) to simply the savings of the material used and the headcount of people in charge of it.

There's a damn good reason why it hasn't happened yet across the board. I'm sorry if you can't comprehend that.

It's called PEOPLE. (and reality)

 

[fun2drum]

The towing capacity is in a chart in the manual.

Yeah I know, it says 6,000 lbs, but I thought you've said in other posts that the sticker is what the law goes by, and that's how to stay out of trouble. I'm obviously not quoting you, but that's how I've understood some of what you've said. Sorry if I misread you.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Yeah I know, it says 6,000 lbs, but I thought you've said in other posts that the sticker is what the law goes by, and that's how to stay out of trouble. I'm obviously not quoting you, but that's how I've understood some of what you've said. Sorry if I misread you.

There are a ton of factors that go into it other than the max towing capacity. There are maximum weights that can be on each axle, payload capacity, and Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR). There also is usually a max tongue weight but I'm not sure what that is for the JT.

For instance, something like an overland has a max towing capacity of 6000lbs. But the sticker in your door jam will show how much payload capacity you have. Payload may become the limiting factor before the max trailer weight.

So if your Overland has 1000lbs of payload capacity and you loaded up a trailer at 6000lbs, you would have a minimum of 600lbs (10% of trailer weight) going against that payload capacity. Now you have 400 lbs left for any passengers and things you are bringing with. If it's just you in the truck, probably not a big deal. But you're probably not fitting you and 3 buddies or a family of 4 without going over the payload capacity.

Additionally, if the GCVRW of the overland is 11,100 lbs, subtract the 6000lbs for your trailer and you are left with 5100lbs of weight before you reach the GCVWR. The weight of your truck, you, your passengers, and anything else you packed with you has to fit within that 5100 lbs. Jeep shows that the base weight of the overland is something like 4676 lbs meaning you have about 400 lbs left over for you, your passengers, and stuff.

If you notice, that lines up pretty well with the payload measurement above. So, it's probably best to get an idea of what your truck and passengers weigh (with a full tank of gas) and then you figure from there, what kind of trailer you can pull and stay within the GCVWR and payload numbers.

 

[PDiddy]

To me this argument should be simple.

We are dealing in something that can effect your family and others on the road.

Why would you not error on the side of caution? We know the manual is correct and no one can say for sure the website is. Which it probably isn’t, considering the took the numbers down.

And this is coming from someone that tows right near the Rubicon’s GCVW. I’m within legal limits and wouldn’t mind a little more buffer.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah I know, it says 6,000 lbs, but I thought you've said in other posts that the sticker is what the law goes by, and that's how to stay out of trouble. I'm obviously not quoting you, but that's how I've understood some of what you've said. Sorry if I misread you.

The door sticker gives GVWR and payload - otherwise axle ratings. As far as I've seen from the stickers and book, the only place it even talks trailer is in the book unless one works backwards from other numbers. But then while I thought the combined weight rating was on the sticker - I found a while back it is not. So maybe there's where I implied, mistakenly perhaps?
"Go by the sticker" is what's always been said - likely I said that for towing as well.........?

The dealer gave me a thick booklet on these last October, and all of the ratings were in that.
When the truck arrived, he pointed out things in the book (not just how to configure the settings in the radio, but that guy went over everything, including payload and towing) and then there's the marketing charts, Edmunds, and 3 or 4 other places that list JT ratings.
I've always gone by them (because the dealer said go by what's in the book) and then I found the door sticker when looking for tire inflation ratings.

I looked at that sticker again - it says "must not exceed" for payload, has the axle ratings and the GVWR (from which one can get the payload by subtracting the actual as shipped curb weight)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are a ton of factors that go into it other than the max towing capacity. There are maximum weights that can be on each axle, payload capacity, and Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR). There also is usually a max tongue weight but I'm not sure what that is for the JT.

For instance, something like an overland has a max towing capacity of 6000lbs. But the sticker in your door jam will show how much payload capacity you have. Payload may become the limiting factor before the max trailer weight.

So if your Overland has 1000lbs of payload capacity and you loaded up a trailer at 6000lbs, you would have a minimum of 600lbs (10% of trailer weight) going against that payload capacity. Now you have 400 lbs left for any passengers and things you are bringing with. If it's just you in the truck, probably not a big deal. But you're probably not fitting you and 3 buddies or a family of 4 without going over the payload capacity.

Additionally, if the GCVRW of the overland is 11,100 lbs, subtract the 6000lbs for your trailer and you are left with 5100lbs of weight before you reach the GCVWR. The weight of your truck, you, your passengers, and anything else you packed with you has to fit within that 5100 lbs. Jeep shows that the base weight of the overland is something like 4676 lbs meaning you have about 400 lbs left over for you, your passengers, and stuff.

If you notice, that lines up pretty well with the payload measurement above. So, it's probably best to get an idea of what your truck and passengers weigh (with a full tank of gas) and then you figure from there, what kind of trailer you can pull and stay within the GCVWR and payload numbers.

With or without my shoes? Before or after eating? Well, I always tell my doctor's nurse that it's not fair because my shoes weigh 20 pounds and my cell phone another 5...... odd, she never buys it.

Sponsored