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fun2drum

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There are a ton of factors that go into it other than the max towing capacity. There are maximum weights that can be on each axle, payload capacity, and Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR). There also is usually a max tongue weight but I'm not sure what that is for the JT.

For instance, something like an overland has a max towing capacity of 6000lbs. But the sticker in your door jam will show how much payload capacity you have. Payload may become the limiting factor before the max trailer weight.

So if your Overland has 1000lbs of payload capacity and you loaded up a trailer at 6000lbs, you would have a minimum of 600lbs (10% of trailer weight) going against that payload capacity. Now you have 400 lbs left for any passengers and things you are bringing with. If it's just you in the truck, probably not a big deal. But you're probably not fitting you and 3 buddies or a family of 4 without going over the payload capacity.

Additionally, if the GCVRW of the overland is 11,100 lbs, subtract the 6000lbs for your trailer and you are left with 5100lbs of weight before you reach the GCVWR. The weight of your truck, you, your passengers, and anything else you packed with you has to fit within that 5100 lbs. Jeep shows that the base weight of the overland is something like 4676 lbs meaning you have about 400 lbs left over for you, your passengers, and stuff.

If you notice, that lines up pretty well with the payload measurement above. So, it's probably best to get an idea of what your truck and passengers weigh (with a full tank of gas) and then you figure from there, what kind of trailer you can pull and stay within the GCVWR and payload numbers.
Thanks for that detailed answer. My understanding (from reading somewhere) was that the GVWR includes gas and a 150 lb driver (I'm slightly over that), but I guess anything else including hitch and tongue weight would need to be counted. It seems to be a balancing act of "more weight here means less weight there" as much as it is an actual trailer weight limit. So that 6,000 lbs capacity may actually be 5,500 lbs when the truck is loaded up for the trip.

I'll bet a surprising lot of trailers on the road are at the max or running over weight.
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fun2drum

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The door sticker gives GVWR and payload - otherwise axle ratings. As far as I've seen from the stickers and book, the only place it even talks trailer is in the book unless one works backwards from other numbers. But then while I thought the combined weight rating was on the sticker - I found a while back it is not. So maybe there's where I implied, mistakenly perhaps?
"Go by the sticker" is what's always been said - likely I said that for towing as well.........?

The dealer gave me a thick booklet on these last October, and all of the ratings were in that.
When the truck arrived, he pointed out things in the book (not just how to configure the settings in the radio, but that guy went over everything, including payload and towing) and then there's the marketing charts, Edmunds, and 3 or 4 other places that list JT ratings.
I've always gone by them (because the dealer said go by what's in the book) and then I found the door sticker when looking for tire inflation ratings.

I looked at that sticker again - it says "must not exceed" for payload, has the axle ratings and the GVWR (from which one can get the payload by subtracting the actual as shipped curb weight)
Got it. The manual says my GCWR is 11,100, Trailer weight is 6,000, and tongue weight is 600. The door sticker says GVWR is 5,800. From that I think I can come pretty close to figuring out a ball park figure based on what I carry. Thanks
 

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Thanks for that detailed answer. My understanding (from reading somewhere) was that the GVWR includes gas and a 150 lb driver (I'm slightly over that), but I guess anything else including hitch and tongue weight would need to be counted. It seems to be a balancing act of "more weight here means less weight there" as much as it is an actual trailer weight limit. So that 6,000 lbs capacity may actually be 5,500 lbs when the truck is loaded up for the trip.

I'll bet a surprising lot of trailers on the road are at the max or running over weight.
Conflicting info on that. Curt and other towing sites, Good Sam, Redarc and others all say NO, the driver is not included in that number.
It appears that only Jeep is the one that says that and then only on a web site - that's what I found, anyway.
Look at any other towing site or other info, not Jeep "MARKETING" and they say you have to include driver and passengers - meaning the driver is not already accounted for.
Besides, other than a 20 year old what male over 35 weighs 150????? Even my IDEAL weight is 25 over that for my height, etc.
 

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Got it. The manual says my GCWR is 11,100, Trailer weight is 6,000, and tongue weight is 600. The door sticker says GVWR is 5,800. From that I think I can come pretty close to figuring out a ball park figure based on what I carry. Thanks
Interesting - my OVERLAND GVWR is 5800. Same as a Sport S.
So the difference would in theory be the curb weights, but then that doesn't math out either, I've done that before and it's never right.
I'll have to look at my book again for the gross COMBINED rating........
 

fun2drum

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Conflicting info on that. Curt and other towing sites, Good Sam, Redarc and others all say NO, the driver is not included in that number.
It appears that only Jeep is the one that says that and then only on a web site - that's what I found, anyway.
Look at any other towing site or other info, not Jeep "MARKETING" and they say you have to include driver and passengers - meaning the driver is not already accounted for.
Besides, other than a 20 year old what male over 35 weighs 150????? Even my IDEAL weight is 25 over that for my height, etc.
This gets more and more confusing the more I learn. I weigh 190-200 depending on how much salt I've had, and I certainly carry a few hundred extra lbs besides myself. Then the trailer gets a few hundred extra lbs too. I'm not expecting to pull that much, but I think it's good to know the limits in a real world way.
 

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danielspivey

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I think this could only be possible if towing 8100lbs also kept the vehicle under the advertised GCVWR which is probably not likely.

Regardless it's bad form for Jeep to have such a discrepancy. This shouldn't even be a debate.
I keep mine under because mine has just me in it when I tow. I donā€™t load the Jeep up with crap and my family when towing a heavy rig. Too much distraction.

Your right, it shouldnt be a debate at all, they need to tighten up.
 

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My understanding (from reading somewhere) was that the GVWR includes gas and a 150 lb driver (I'm slightly over that)
Conflicting info on that. Curt and other towing sites, Good Sam, Redarc and others all say NO, the driver is not included in that number.
Jeep specifies that their GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the base weight plus max trailer plus 150lbs for driver. That is different from the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), which doesn't look to be stated in the spec sheet, but is printed on a sticker in the door. My Rubicon says it has a GVWR of 6250 lbs.

Jeep's spec sheet (LINK) states that a Gas Rubicon model has a payload of 1160 lbs yet my door sticker says my payload is 1225lbs.

Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400692293


Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... IMG_5460


While it's possible that Jeep is using the heaviest configuration for the numbers in the spec sheet, I find that the same discussion we are having about Towing Capacity would apply to Payload as well.

For instance, Jeep Marketing lists that you can get up to a max payload of 1700lbs in a Gladiator. The Jeep spec sheet shows this is for the 3.6L Gas Sport model with a manual transmission.

Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400664952


Now, there is already a discrepancy between the spec sheet an my door jam sticker noted above for payload. Because this is going to be based on what options each vehicle has installed, it implies that the payload number in the spec sheet is the minimum payload available. It certainly doesn't seem that it could be indicating the max payload capacity because my Rubicon has more. So you could then infer that means a model COULD have more than 1700lbs of payload capacity.

Jeep specifically notes that the GCWR includes 150lbs for the driver but it does not have that same note in regards to the payload number. There's some shenanigans going on with their numbers that don't seem to clear.

WHAT GIVES JEEP!?!? @JeepCares
 

danielspivey

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Jeep specifies that their GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the base weight plus max trailer plus 150lbs for driver. That is different from the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), which doesn't look to be stated in the spec sheet, but is printed on a sticker in the door. My Rubicon says it has a GVWR of 6250 lbs.

Jeep's spec sheet (LINK) states that a Gas Rubicon model has a payload of 1160 lbs yet my door sticker says my payload is 1225lbs.

Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400664952


Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400664952


While it's possible that Jeep is using the heaviest configuration for the numbers in the spec sheet, I find that the same discussion we are having about Towing Capacity would apply to Payload as well.

For instance, Jeep Marketing lists that you can get up to a max payload of 1700lbs in a Gladiator. The Jeep spec sheet shows this is for the 3.6L Gas Sport model with a manual transmission.

Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400664952


Now, there is already a discrepancy between the spec sheet an my door jam sticker noted above for payload. Because this is going to be based on what options each vehicle has installed, it implies that the payload number in the spec sheet is the minimum payload available. It certainly doesn't seem that it could be indicating the max payload capacity because my Rubicon has more. So you could then infer that means a model COULD have more than 1700lbs of payload capacity.

Jeep specifically notes that the GCWR includes 150lbs for the driver but it does not have that same note in regards to the payload number. There's some shenanigans going on with their numbers that don't seem to clear.

WHAT GIVES JEEP!?!? @JeepCares
Great conclusion, and it makes perfect sense that the advertised numbers are minimum numbers not maximum.

My door/the mopar website says my payload is 1583 and the owners manual says 1535, does that mean the door is wrong? Thatā€™s a 3% difference.

Max tow is 7650 in the owners manual, but the website says 8133... thatā€™s a 6% difference. Now is that really that far fetched? Iā€™d say not.
 

danielspivey

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Got it. The manual says my GCWR is 11,100, Trailer weight is 6,000, and tongue weight is 600. The door sticker says GVWR is 5,800. From that I think I can come pretty close to figuring out a ball park figure based on what I carry. Thanks
I wonder if it affects the sales of overland because they come in under the 6000 lb GVWR mark and canā€™t be used as a tax write off. I saved almost 10 grand in taxes in 2019 because I purchased my gladiator. That was the easiest sale on getting her to buy anything lol.
 

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I wonder if it affects the sales of overland because they come in under the 6000 lb GVWR mark and canā€™t be used as a tax write off. I saved almost 10 grand in taxes in 2019 because I purchased my gladiator. That was the easiest sale on getting her to buy anything lol.
How do you get a "tax write-off" other than sales tax and licenses?
I can claim all of the sales tax I paid - and the annual license fee.
But for other taxes it would have to be a work vehicle, driven primarily in my job duties (not commuting) unless your STATE laws are different.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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Jeep specifies that their GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the base weight plus max trailer plus 150lbs for driver. That is different from the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), which doesn't look to be stated in the spec sheet, but is printed on a sticker in the door. My Rubicon says it has a GVWR of 6250 lbs.

Jeep's spec sheet (LINK) states that a Gas Rubicon model has a payload of 1160 lbs yet my door sticker says my payload is 1225lbs.

Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400664952


Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400664952


While it's possible that Jeep is using the heaviest configuration for the numbers in the spec sheet, I find that the same discussion we are having about Towing Capacity would apply to Payload as well.

For instance, Jeep Marketing lists that you can get up to a max payload of 1700lbs in a Gladiator. The Jeep spec sheet shows this is for the 3.6L Gas Sport model with a manual transmission.

Jeep Gladiator Just looked my truck up on the mopar site... 1603400664952


Now, there is already a discrepancy between the spec sheet an my door jam sticker noted above for payload. Because this is going to be based on what options each vehicle has installed, it implies that the payload number in the spec sheet is the minimum payload available. It certainly doesn't seem that it could be indicating the max payload capacity because my Rubicon has more. So you could then infer that means a model COULD have more than 1700lbs of payload capacity.

Jeep specifically notes that the GCWR includes 150lbs for the driver but it does not have that same note in regards to the payload number. There's some shenanigans going on with their numbers that don't seem to clear.

WHAT GIVES JEEP!?!? @JeepCares
They are really screwed up with numbers as the 2020 numbers are vastly different and the payload sticker is always UNDER the advertised "payload ratings" which for 2020 were the max payload for a BASE model of that trim level. Add options, subtract payload, thus the sticker is always lower than the chart - unless you buy a base model with no options. They've really screwed things around!
 

danielspivey

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How do you get a "tax write-off" other than sales tax and licenses?
I can claim all of the sales tax I paid - and the annual license fee.
But for other taxes it would have to be a work vehicle, driven primarily in my job duties (not commuting) unless your STATE laws are different.
yep itā€™a 95% my work vehicle ;) and being that itā€™s over 6000 you can write off the full amount of your taxes in the first year. The law stipulates that need to keep it (I think) 5 years for depreciation, and technically would have pay back tax savings if you sold it before 5 years.

I have several rentals and my wife does consulting and gets 1099s. We bought a new hybrid highlander this year for the same reason.

Additionally, we donā€™t pay sales tax, or personal property tax, thanks for living on the reservation!
 

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Great conclusion, and it makes perfect sense that the advertised numbers are minimum numbers not maximum.
All of my common sense would tell me that the numbers in the spec sheet are maximums. It would only make sense. They advertise a max towing capacity of 7650 lbs. That's listed in the sport models. They list a max available payload of 1700lbs. That's right there in the sport models too.

So why are the payload numbers on our door stickers more than what should be assumed is max values on the spec sheet?

I think I give up! LOL
 

danielspivey

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All of my common sense would tell me that the numbers in the spec sheet are maximums. It would only make sense. They advertise a max towing capacity of 7650 lbs. That's listed in the sport models. They list a max available payload of 1700lbs. That's right there in the sport models too.

So why are the payload numbers on our door stickers more than what should be assumed is max values on the spec sheet?

I think I give up! LOL
yea they sure have figured out how to turn us gladiator owners against each other !
 

ShadowsPapa

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yep itā€™a 95% my work vehicle ;) and being that itā€™s over 6000 you can write off the full amount of your taxes in the first year. The law stipulates that need to keep it (I think) 5 years for depreciation, and technically would have pay back tax savings if you sold it before 5 years.

I have several rentals and my wife does consulting and gets 1099s. We bought a new hybrid highlander this year for the same reason.

Additionally, we donā€™t pay sales tax, or personal property tax, thanks for living on the reservation!
LOL - love it. Yeah, we were able to use a vehicle and some other home stuff when we owned a quilt store. Fuel for going to shows, meals, and so on.
I leave some of that stuff to our CPA these days. I used to keep up but it's gotten complicated. Now we deduct part of our house, a percentage of utilities and that sort of stuff due to the quilting my wife does. Trying to track all of the quilting machine and parts and accessories and the other bits - naw, let him figure it. Started with him when we incorporated. He's saved us a ton of money.
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