KAAAAPOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!

[ShadowsPapa]

Yup. I do understand the electronics involved quite well. The switch I installed, is selectable, adjustable has NO and NC for both above and below settings. This is not a cheap Chinese thing. It has an indicator light to show when it is active and not. So, I can have the car off and see that it is not on. I can turn the car on, test and see the voltage and the switch is on. It has worked REALLY well and is very cool.

I posted what I believe this is all about...a recall I had forgotten about which the dealers said they wouldn't fix unless there was a problem someday. It all adds up.

I wasn't talking about knowing electronics - I'm referring to how the charging system works when it's working correctly, and battery charging in general.
I have worked in auto-electric, charging systems and batteries for over 50 years and have built my own electronic automotive voltage regulators. I guess I know electronics HAHA.

So you are saying the battery voltage is above 12.6 - actually 12.8 since that small battery now has no load on it. If not, it's not fully charged.
The main also should be 12.8 - likely 12.6 if still connected to the truck due to the parasitic draw.
I would bet things aren't as fully charged as you believe, but you seem happy that it's perfect.

You are the one that brought up flashing lights and clicking and so on - which is electrical. Your description in the first post fits a dead battery situation.

Any dealer that said they won't do the fuel pump recall unless there is a problem are morons. If your fuel pump really did fail, they have to replace the whole fuel system now, not just the pump.

Yes - this. It's a recall, not a "TSB, if customer complains, do this" sort of thing.
If you ask, they must do it. In fact, FCA tracks vehicles that have and have not been done, it's important to them as they must report the numbers each quarter to the NHTSA.

Sponsored

 

[Eternity]

Any dealer that said they won't do the fuel pump recall unless there is a problem are morons. If your fuel pump really did fail, they have to replace the whole fuel system now, not just the pump.

Going to call a different dealer this morning that is not too far from where I am now that I have a problem. I assume they will fix it under recall, but my point was the recall is now several years old.

It is not like I ignored the recall. In fact, I called immediately to get it replaced. That is when they said they had no parts and no idea when it would come. Called a different dealer in a different state a year later and they stated that they don't have the part and can't get it unless there is a failure...almost like they are just replacing it with the same part.

My beef now is that had they honored the recall, I could have scheduled it, driven it there, had plans, got it fixed. Now, I have to tow it 20 miles and then what? Can they get the part and is it a new and improved part?

 

[Eternity]

Now I'm curious to know from other diesel owners....

When the fuel pump recall came out, did you call to get it replaced and what were you told and when and where?

 

[RudeJeepin]

I've done 3 recalls. The first one I called about, they put me on a waiting list. Dealer was calling owners as the parts came in, and then they would schedule an appointment. Took my wife's Wrangler in for a different reason to a different dealer and asked about the recall while I was there. They said no problem, we have everything needed to do it, done on the spot. Took my Gladiator back the next week for the recall.

Now to your rig, that bang you heard could of been one of the batteries exploding. That would explain the noise, the shudder and the electrical issues.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

Funny!!! I don't crawl up rocks in narrow washes but I got only a gallon left and I'm the crazy Jeep owner....hehe

Running a low tank is one of the main killers of the CP4 pump. Air gets into the system (even if you don't notice it), whether it be from fuel moving around and exposing the pickup or from fuel sloshing around and foaming. Air pockets cause plungers to shift which leads to excessive wear, excessive wear causes excessive play and eventually leads to mechanical failure.

Going to call a different dealer this morning that is not too far from where I am now that I have a problem. I assume they will fix it under recall, but my point was the recall is now several years old.

It is not like I ignored the recall. In fact, I called immediately to get it replaced. That is when they said they had no parts and no idea when it would come. Called a different dealer in a different state a year later and they stated that they don't have the part and can't get it unless there is a failure...almost like they are just replacing it with the same part.

My beef now is that had they honored the recall, I could have scheduled it, driven it there, had plans, got it fixed. Now, I have to tow it 20 miles and then what? Can they get the part and is it a new and improved part?

Now I'm curious to know from other diesel owners....

When the fuel pump recall came out, did you call to get it replaced and what were you told and when and where?

The CP4 recall is across almost all modern diesels, not just Jeep, so it is an accurate statement that dealerships can't easily get parts and will prioritize failures or higher mileage over anyone else. And yes, they are replacing with the same pump as there is no upgraded or "fixed" CP4 replacement. There are some companies that sell a in-house modified pump that they claim are less likely to fail, and if they do they won't send metal into your fuel system. Since you tried to start and run your truck a few times after pump failure, chances are they'll need to replace quite a bit as you likely circulated contaminated fuel throughout your system.

For any other diesel owners reading this, I suggest you read up on CP4 failures, steps you can take to mitigate your chances of it happening, and what to do if it does happen so you don't make matters worse, but for cliff notes;

Only run top-tier fuel from stations that see a high volume of diesel traffic
Always run a lubricant additive in your fuel
Change your fuel filter regularly
Never run your tank close to empty
If you suspect pump failure DO NOT try to start the engine

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Now to your rig, that bang you heard could of been on of the batteries exploding. That would explain the noise, the shudder and the electrical issues.

Read the first post again - after the bang, it started. The light show started later.
A battery won't just explode without reason, such as OVERcharging - really overcharging.
You aren't going to blow both at the same time.
The fact that after the bang, he could crank it and start is pretty much leaves out any exploding battery bit. Once it pops, it's gone, there's nothing.
The days of exploding batteries pretty much went away with the AGM battery and IBS controlling the system. Of course we don't know what other mods he did as disconnecting the aux battery - he never mentioned pulling F42 so was he driving with the light on all the time? Pretty much had to be unless he followed the process and pulled that fuse, which he never mentioned.
Also a questionable bit in the story is that it wouldn't start, he jumped it, and then drove it "to charge the batteries" - that's a joke. You would have to drive for hours. And you should never drive to charge batteries so low that the thing won't start. An alternator isn't a dead battery charger. Still no idea on the actual voltages he was running - likely the batteries were toast well before any of this happened when you read the whole first post and include "dead batteries" and "driving to charge them" and so on. Something else is going on.

 

[Teqsand]

Using tazer does not take second battery out of the loop just turns off ess, Sounds like you blew the maxi fuse array at the end of the fuse box using the small battery as a jumper

Dealer jumped my ram day i bought it, they blew the circled fuse and it ran on the small battery only, then when voltage dropped all hell broke lose on the dash..... a multi meter will tell you if the fuse is bad and if it isolated the big battery.... these are avaiable on Amazon or parts stores

 

[Sandman 4x4]

Funny!!! I don't crawl up rocks in narrow washes but I got only a gallon left and I'm the crazy Jeep owner....hehe

One is fun, the other just dum. The worst thing you can do, short of running a diesel out of oil, is out of fuel.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Dealer jumped my ram day i bought it, they blew the circled fuse and it ran on the small battery only, then when voltage dropped all hell broke lose on the dash..... a multi meter will tell you if the fuse is bad and if it isolated the big battery.... these are avaiable on Amazon or parts stores

N3 is a 150 amp fuse that can blow that prevents the charging of the small battery, and when voltage drops, then you have issues.

150 amp fuse would be N3, the fust TO the aux battery from the alternator, tying it all in with the main battery. Blow that and you isolate the auxiliary battery from the charging system, eventually killing it, causing a "light show."

I'd love to know how jumping a Jeep can blow that fuse - something was going on for sure.
Makes me wonder about the health of one or both batteries to make that happen - a voltage imbalance.

 

[Eternity]

N3 is a 150 amp fuse that can blow that prevents the charging of the small battery, and when voltage drops, then you have issues.

150 amp fuse would be N3, the fust TO the aux battery from the alternator, tying it all in with the main battery. Blow that and you isolate the auxiliary battery from the charging system, eventually killing it, causing a "light show."

I'd love to know how jumping a Jeep can blow that fuse - something was going on for sure.
Makes me wonder about the health of one or both batteries to make that happen - a voltage imbalance.

I'm about to go out and dig deeper into it now that I am not stranded on the side of the road and blocking a parking lot entrance.

I do think the combination of events that one may have led to another, but I've convinced myself that the klunk I heard was not a rock from the street and a few second later the engine stutters and dies....that is fuel and not battery.

After it died, I was able to crank and start, ran for a few seconds, sputtered and died. Then cranked again, ran for 1 second. The battery was cranking. I had isolated the second battery completely...not connected at all. Main battery is showing 12.4v or so after all the cranking. Jumper batter was strong as well.

After pulling the main fuse bank, the 150A fuse (0104), next to the last, is blown. Not sure what that goes to, but in all the panic to get it started and jumped, something else must have gone.

Calling the dealer in a few minutes when they open.

Thank again for all the ideas and concepts that I believe led to the cause....fuel pump

 

[ShadowsPapa]

After pulling the main fuse bank, the 150A fuse (0104), next to the last, is blown. Not sure what that goes to, but in all the panic to get it started and jumped, something else must have gone.

The 150 that's N3 - that charged the smaller battery. And with your system, removing the negative battery ground unless the voltage is above 13, with a blown N3, it's never going to start. There's no power at all to the electronics to make it start and run. Your configuration relies on the main battery to feed back through N2 across the bus up to N3, then down to the PCR, across the aux battery positive and then to N1
With N3 blown, the power from the main battery can't reach N1 so there's no power to the electronics.
Unless you kick in the negative connection to the auxiliary battery, it will never run right, and if the auxiliary battery is low, then it's still a problem because it now can't be charged.
Two things with the combination of your system and a blown N3:
Main battery can't power the electronics.
Auxiliary battery can't charge properly.

12.4 volts is roughly a 50-60% charge. Not strong. "workable" but getting down there and very possible on older batteries with a 12.4 at rest state that while cranking it dropped too low to handle the electronics, too. Normally both batteries handle the load at all times. You now have a reduced capacity electrical system when cranking and starting.

 

[RudeJeepin]

Read the first post again - after the bang, it started. The light show started later.
A battery won't just explode without reason, such as OVERcharging - really overcharging.
You aren't going to blow both at the same time.
The fact that after the bang, he could crank it and start is pretty much leaves out any exploding battery bit. Once it pops, it's gone, there's nothing.
The days of exploding batteries pretty much went away with the AGM battery and IBS controlling the system. Of course we don't know what other mods he did as disconnecting the aux battery - he never mentioned pulling F42 so was he driving with the light on all the time? Pretty much had to be unless he followed the process and pulled that fuse, which he never mentioned.
Also a questionable bit in the story is that it wouldn't start, he jumped it, and then drove it "to charge the batteries" - that's a joke. You would have to drive for hours. And you should never drive to charge batteries so low that the thing won't start. An alternator isn't a dead battery charger. Still no idea on the actual voltages he was running - likely the batteries were toast well before any of this happened when you read the whole first post and include "dead batteries" and "driving to charge them" and so on. Something else is going on.

His first post is pretty convoluted. He had on going battery issues. Before the bang, for multiple days. He majorly messed with the electrical system. He heard a bang and shudder. His words, "I heard a sound underneath and felt a little shudder like I dropped a rock or stick. Didn't think to much of it but about 10 seconds later, the engine simply sputtered and died."
All could easily point towards a blown battery. More than likely the little battery and not the bigger one, if either did explode.

True, AGMs aren't as likely to explode, but I've seen the aftermath of 2. Both had dead shorts from bad wiring jobs.

I'm not arguing with you. I know your one of those on here that has more experience than I do. And I usually agree with you. I was just trying to point out an option.
You have to admit his first few post were kinda suspect. With more info and clarification maybe I jumped the gun, but maybe not.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You have to admit his first few post were kinda suspect. With more info and clarification maybe I jumped the gun, but maybe not.

Yes, for sure.
There's a lot in there that shows lack of understanding how the systems work, how they are charged, what each battery does and more.
AGM are not open vent - but we don't know what the actual charging voltage were, or if the IBS was even still present.
(No pictures and a lot left out)

 

[RudeJeepin]

Yes, for sure.
There's a lot in there that shows lack of understanding how the systems work, how they are charged, what each battery does and more.
AGM are not open vent - but we don't know what the actual charging voltage were, or if the IBS was even still present.
(No pictures and a lot left out)

His title KAAAAPOOOOOWWWWW!!!!! is exactly how the driver claimed it sounded like when the first AGM blew. He then went on to say it sounded like someone shoot off a 12ga right under his ass. It was a dump truck with the batteries outside under the driver door.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

His title KAAAAPOOOOOWWWWW!!!!! is exactly how the driver claimed it sounded like when the first AGM blew. He then went on to say it sounded like someone shoot off a 12ga right under his ass. It was a dump truck with the batteries outside under the driver door.

I haven't witnessed an AGM battery blow - but was feet away when a wet car battery went. It did sound like a gunshot.

Sponsored