Looking for input on an idea for a front receiver hitch for a winch.

[dcmdon]

Why? What is the advantage to using a separate battery?

Cheap - you can use a old car battery.
Self contained - so you can use it at either end of the vehicle without having to tap into the car's electrical system.
Simple.

IMO disadvantages and inconvenience of having a separate loose battery far outweigh the one time install of a couple cables.

It makes sense if you want to be able to winch from the rear.

Go do th3e math on what sized cable you need to run to make it so your voltage drop is reasonable when pulling 200 amps.

Also you can switch it between multiple vehicles.

With that said. I'm playing devil's advocate. I'[d probably permanently install using some 0 AWG welding cable and a reasonably priced plug and some large ring terminals.

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[dcmdon]

However, battery output is not linear.
Once you start to drop the voltage, you will have issues with the winch via low voltage.
You will have some natural voltage drop through connections and the cable itself (ideally, not a lot- but still.....)
Consider a battery at about 12.4 volts is only sitting at 70% charge.

All that is true. But if you look at the huge margins in my example you can see that you won't get anywhere near the limits. Assuming a full charge, which is what? 13.4v??

Also. the CCA rating is at 0 deg F. A lead acid battery puts out 2x that much power at 80 deg F. So the margins in my example in most use cases is huge.

Suffice to say that on an average day with a healthy, fully charged battery of average capacity, there won't be anything to worry about.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

All that is true. But if you look at the huge margins in my example you can see that you won't get anywhere near the limits. Assuming a full charge, which is what? 13.4v??

Also. the CCA rating is at 0 deg F. A lead acid battery puts out 2x that much power at 80 deg F. So the margins in my example in most use cases is huge.

Suffice to say that on an average day with a healthy, fully charged battery of average capacity, there won't be anything to worry about.

A full charge is 12.6 volts.
The system has to run higher charging voltages to "force" or push in a sense.

This chart is for more traditional batteries and not for AGM but it gives an idea if a person decides to buy a cheap battery and use it for a winch.
(this is from a GM factory training course I took when I worked as a tech)

 

[dcmdon]

A full charge is 12.6 volts.
The system has to run higher charging voltages to "force" or push in a sense.

This chart is for more traditional batteries and not for AGM but it gives an idea if a person decides to buy a cheap battery and use it for a winch.
(this is from a GM factory training course I took when I worked as a tech)

Your chart just reminded me that dead batteries can freeze and crack. I had that happen once when I was a kid. I killed my battery trying to start a car that wouldn't fire and that night my battery froze. I can't remember if I was able to jump the car, but remember it eventually leaking and not taking a charge. ha.

 

[dcmdon]

A full charge is 12.6 volts.
The system has to run higher charging voltages to "force" or push in a sense.

This chart is for more traditional batteries and not for AGM but it gives an idea if a person decides to buy a cheap battery and use it for a winch.
(this is from a GM factory training course I took when I worked as a tech)

One other thing. You mentioned AGM batteries. They are amazing. Huge power because of low internal resistance. But total energy is not a whole lot more than a regular battery.

I had an Odyssey PC680 in my airplane. It was 7"L x 6" Hx 3W" and weighed only about 15 lbs.
But it would start my 320 cubic inch engine with ease. You could also discharge it down to 25% charge 500 times. In theory.

I don't know how much actual energy it holds, but it might be awesome for a winch.

 

[kad's_Glad]

All that is true. But if you look at the huge margins in my example you can see that you won't get anywhere near the limits. Assuming a full charge, which is what? 13.4v??

Also. the CCA rating is at 0 deg F. A lead acid battery puts out 2x that much power at 80 deg F. So the margins in my example in most use cases is huge.

Suffice to say that on an average day with a healthy, fully charged battery of average capacity, there won't be anything to worry about.

Would it work - sure. And I know someone who did a similar setup, but it was not ideal. What he found was the cheap automotive batteries just didn't last as advertised and died at the most inconvenient times. That wasn't as bad once he figured out he should run a trickle charger when it was sitting on the shelf in the shop . But he wasn't the greatest at remembering to do that sometimes too. So he was left high and dry on more than one occasion.

Now it gave him the flexibility to move it between vehicles which was nice. But he eventually bit the bullet and installed plugged cables in the 2 primary vehicles he used it in. And that solved most the shortcomings of 'the system'. He also made a short jumper style attachment so he could still hook the winch up to a loose battery when that need arose. He was a thrifty guy and got most the pieces/parts from surplus sources too.

Did it work? Yes. Did he save money? Some I'm sure. But not what he predicted it would when he first decided to go this route. In the end he was happy and no one got hurt using it. YMMV

 

[dcmdon]

Would it work - sure. And I know someone who did a similar setup, but it was not ideal. What he found was the cheap automotive batteries just didn't last as advertised and died at the most inconvenient times. That wasn't as bad once he figured out he should run a trickle charger when it was sitting on the shelf in the shop . But he wasn't the greatest at remembering to do that sometimes too. So he was left high and dry on more than one occasion.

Now it gave him the flexibility to move it between vehicles which was nice. But he eventually bit the bullet and installed plugged cables in the 2 primary vehicles he used it in. And that solved most the shortcomings of 'the system'. He also made a short jumper style attachment so he could still hook the winch up to a loose battery when that need arose. He was a thrifty guy and got most the pieces/parts from surplus sources too.

Did it work? Yes. Did he save money? Some I'm sure. But not what he predicted it would when he first decided to go this route. In the end he was happy and no one got hurt using it. YMMV

So it sounds like it would have worked fine if he had remembered to put it on a charger after he used it? If that's the case, I'd call it a success.

But you have to know your own strengths and weaknesses. I would forget. My wife would not. Ha.

One other thing. AGM batteries can be depleted down to 25% charge repeatedly with no damage. So if you step up from a $80 battery to a $175 AGM you eliminate that problem.

Its certainly not ideal. But there are ways to make it more functional. And yes, putting the battery on a Battery Tender at home is probably a good idea. Ha.

 

[kad's_Glad]

So it sounds like it would have worked fine if he had remembered to put it on a charger after he used it? If that's the case, I'd call it a success.

But you have to know your own strengths and weaknesses. I would forget. My wife would not. Ha.

One other thing. AGM batteries can be depleted down to 25% charge repeatedly with no damage. So if you step up from a $80 battery to a $175 AGM you eliminate that problem.

Its certainly not ideal. But there are ways to make it more functional. And yes, putting the battery on a Battery Tender at home is probably a good idea. Ha.

Agreed on all points. BTW, what inspired him was a 1950's CJ5 that already had a receiver welded on the front when he bought it. And since he was a "thrifty guy" he didn't want to buy two winches for what he wanted to do. And thus a plan was hatched.

 

[FrankFrqnkFrank]

These would allow for quick and easy occasional front or rear use of a hitch-mounted winch without a separate battery. I see pricing around $100 from reputable resellers

“Alligator clips - the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems”

https://www.amazon.com/WARN-26769-Q...ONNECT+POWER+CABLE,+20'&qid=1639150026&sr=8-3

 

[EddyArnold]

Hey guys, thanks for the thread! I have the same plan for using the front hitch receiver/winch mount because I probably won't execpt rare occasions and have been wondering what I'd do for power from the rear if needed... so here's my question. If I already have a jump box (like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JFJLP6 ) would that be enough to do double duty for the winch? I think I've seen Matt (OffRoad Recovery on youtube) use something like that for pulling stuff up on a trailer. What do ya think???

 

[dcmdon]

Hey guys, thanks for the thread! I have the same plan for using the front hitch receiver/winch mount because I probably won't execpt rare occasions and have been wondering what I'd do for power from the rear if needed... so here's my question. If I already have a jump box (like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JFJLP6 ) would that be enough to do double duty for the winch? I think I've seen Matt (OffRoad Recovery on youtube) use something like that for pulling stuff up on a trailer. What do ya think???

It should work. It shows 425 cranking amps with 1700 amp peak. Whatever that means. But AGM batteries can provide huge power down to low charge levels because of low internal resistance.

The only way to know for sure would be to load the winch with the battery running and measure the voltage drop across the battery terminals. If it got down much below 12V I'd call it quits.


Just a reminder that an electric motor's resistance (internal inductance but it appears as resistance to a DC power supply) goes down as you put a load on it. Which pulls more amps.

So if you test the winch and battery without a load, any battery will pass. Because the winch is probably only drawing 5 amps with no load.

 

[FrankFrqnkFrank]

I was going to order the Warn VR evo 8-s with a receiver plate and alligator clip connectors but then I saw the Warn 87800 M8000-S.

Does anyone know the relative advantages of each winch? The lighter weight of the 87800 M8000-S is appealing to me

And is the 87800 M8000-S made in America??

 

[EddyArnold]

These would allow for quick and easy occasional front or rear use of a hitch-mounted winch without a separate battery. I see pricing around $100 from reputable resellers

“Alligator clips - the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems”

https://www.amazon.com/WARN-26769-Quick-Connect-Booster/dp/B00029XEFW/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=warn+QUICK+CONNECT+POWER+CABLE,+20'&qid=1639150026&sr=8-3

Would that really have good enough contact to power the apex winch from the rear hitch?

 

[EddyArnold]

Had to cut an angle across remote shock res mount, as the Curt hitch used one of the holes but cutting the res.

So did you end up cutting it straight across like this, or something different?

 

[Jaxmax]

EXACTLY! Yes cut about like that , you lose a bolt but after painting the cut piece and putting it back on the hitch frame it rests against the hitch frame edge locking it in solid.....Jack

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