Looking for some Advice...

[swtrailboss]

No, forget that "lost value" stuff - very wrong. I really would love to know where that comes from.

That comes from the Gen Z world of “ let’s get online and find out about what we are buying “ I personally purchased a TJ about 5 years ago that had a “severe “ accident listed on it but looked it over and felt confident it was a good deal…. The days of taking the car to a mechanic and getting it checked out are gone. They make their choices based off the car fax. Wether or not you or I want to believe it most purchase based off this report. Billion dollar industry!!!!! All about the money.

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[ShadowsPapa]

That comes from the Gen Z world of “ let’s get online and find out about what we are buying “ I personally purchased a TJ about 5 years ago that had a “severe “ accident listed on it but looked it over and felt confident it was a good deal…. The days of taking the car to a mechanic and getting it checked out are gone. They make their choices based off the car fax. Wether or not you or I want to believe it most purchase based off this report. Billion dollar industry!!!!! All about the money.

Carfax values are based on ACCIDENTS, number of owners and service history.
They don't give a rip about engine or transmission replacement. For all they know, it could be like ours - replaced because of a defect - a leak.
So, would the next owner want a LEAKING transmission, or a Jeep with a perfect transmission, leak-free, trouble-free?
I'll take leak-free, thank you.

There's too much "value" placed on CF - and frankly, the experts even in the consumer protection world say "check OTHER sources of information, don't rely on them alone".
I wonder why that is.......hmmmm

Maybe a lot of people don't realize that damage to bumpers, etc. that get replaced with factory parts don't have to be reported to anyone..

Here's a bit of law - some states may vary? ->

Dealers are not required to disclose any damage to glass, tires or bumpers if the damaged item has been replaced with original or comparable equipment.

If a new car has been repaired for damages that do not exceed five percent of the manufacturer’s suggested retail price, then the dealer does not have to tell you about the damage unless you ask.
So if a hood is damaged, and repaired, they are not required to tell you - unless you ask if it's been repaired. And there's no mandatory reporting.
Not to CF, not to anyone.

 

[Rdizz]

Bull
It will not diminish the value at all. Too much stock put into that carcrap bit on that sort of thing.
Accidents impact value.
Replacement major parts will not.

If I was buying used and found an engine with FEWER miles than the vehicle, I'd be happy. It would have the same warranty as the original, that's a fact, so you'd be out nothing.

All you are owed is an engine, nothing more - but maybe because they were stupid, you can get an "extended warranty" (which is really a service contract)

I don't know where people get this stuff about carfax and values and engine or transmission replacements and so on.
And frankly, you can tell the shop that you don't want it reported - it's not mandatory, and not all shops even report everything. Some shops don't report much of anything, and there are no rules stating things MUST be reported. There's no law or rule anywhere.

Go after them, yeah, but man this crap about engine replacements showing up in reports (if they do) killing a vehicle's value - why should it? It's not a catastrophic accident.

We had the transmission replaced in a 4xe - you think your Jeep is complex!
The transmission is not only the transmission, but a clutch setup as well as the main drive motor (electric) with a ton of lines and cables and whatever. They must pull the body off to replace the transmission. They have to shut down (properly with the correct sequence) the HV and 12v systems before anything else is done.
It came back flawless.

I have to ask - don't Jeeps have an oil pressure warning light?
I've never run one dry - but I have to think there's some sort of warning.......red light and a chime.
here it is........it shows red with low oil pressure.

''

Be ready for them to bring that up.
Possible that their attorneys may throw this up, so be ready - that's all I'm saying...........

Yes the the very second the light came on the Jeep shut down, but this was right after the knocking, according to my wife it was basically Bang Bang, Bang, Light, Shut down. From what I can tell from the oil spill on the street that all took place with a few hundred feet from the spill to the dry area to where she said it broke down. She says the light came on for only a split second.

From what I can see from the street the plug worked its way out then it started to drop the oil while she was driving, It then looks like it mostly dumped out at a stop sign and when she started to go again and got right to the next intersection That is when she heard the knocking, the light came on then instantly the motor turned off. There was no smoke or other indicator for her to know this was happening.

 

[Rdizz]

No, forget that "lost value" stuff - very wrong. I really would love to know where that comes from.

It may not lose value on the private market, in fact it would be a wonderful selling point. But when you go to trade in a vehicle they can and will use anything to give you less and for the most part with sales down and prices up they are generally sticking with these numbers. That is where it is coming from. But Yes I am with you, i would much rather buy a vehicle with a new motor than one with a used higher mileage. As far as reporting I think I am not sure that this will have to be reported due to the mileage difference.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes the the very second the light came on the Jeep shut down, but this was right after the knocking, according to my wife it was basically Bang Bang, Bang, Light, Shut down. From what I can tell from the oil spill on the street that all took place with a few hundred feet from the spill to the dry area to where she said it broke down. She says the light came on for only a split second.

From what I can see from the street the plug worked its way out then it started to drop the oil while she was driving, It then looks like it mostly dumped out at a stop sign and when she started to go again and got right to the next intersection That is when she heard the knocking, the light came on then instantly the motor turned off. There was no smoke or other indicator for her to know this was happening.

I've been through discovery processes, attorney battles, the back and forth, and even called as an expert witness before - so be ready IF it comes to a battle. It may not - and that would be cool.
Level heads do a lot better without attorneys in the room. So be cool, have the FACTS, be organized - dates, times, people's names (be sure to take names!!!), details details details. Go in cool, calm and collected with the facts.
But if it comes to attorneys, they are going to grill your wife/the driver and try to shift blame and talk about warnings and so on. They'll try to toss it back on the driver.
So best to get it settled with no attorney involved if possible.
KEEP A COOL HEAD.

I worked on a truck that had a blown engine. The guy hit a rock in the road (yeah, that big a rock!) and he blew the engine due to lack of oil.
He brought it in and said that "insurance will cover it - road hazard" or whatever the term was.
Yeah, insurance covered the PAN, but the rest was on him because he was warned of the problem by a red light on the dash and made a choice to keep driving it.

Not the same thing, I know - but I've seen a few things, never good with attorneys (unless it's your attorney!)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It may not lose value on the private market, in fact it would be a wonderful selling point. But when you go to trade in a vehicle they can and will use anything to give you less and for the most part with sales down and prices up they are generally sticking with these numbers. That is where it is coming from. But Yes I am with you, i would much rather buy a vehicle with a new motor than one with a used higher mileage. As far as reporting I think I am not sure that this will have to be reported due to the mileage difference.

Miles are for the vehicle. There's nothing saying something has to be reported for differences. I can see if it's a USED engine - yeah, that gets really very sticky, but a dealer putting in an engine will have the same warranty as the original, and since it's newer/lower miles, there's nothing saying it MUST be reported. Nothing must be reported to carfax - nothing has to be.
There is no law, no rule, nothing forcing any shop to report anything. Many participate, but it's mostly for accident types of stuff.
I had rocker panels replaced on a WJ - it's a major operating requiring a lot of disassembly, including removal of doors and so on. Big thing.
But guess what it never showed up on - yeah, carfax.
There are no government requirements that things get reported to any company like CF.

 

[Rdizz]

I've been through discovery processes, attorney battles, the back and forth, and even called as an expert witness before - so be ready IF it comes to a battle. It may not - and that would be cool.
Level heads do a lot better without attorneys in the room. So be cool, have the FACTS, be organized - dates, times, people's names (be sure to take names!!!), details details details. Go in cool, calm and collected with the facts.
But if it comes to attorneys, they are going to grill your wife/the driver and try to shift blame and talk about warnings and so on. They'll try to toss it back on the driver.
So best to get it settled with no attorney involved if possible.
KEEP A COOL HEAD.

I worked on a truck that had a blown engine. The guy hit a rock in the road (yeah, that big a rock!) and he blew the engine due to lack of oil.
He brought it in and said that "insurance will cover it - road hazard" or whatever the term was.
Yeah, insurance covered the PAN, but the rest was on him because he was warned of the problem by a red light on the dash and made a choice to keep driving it.

Not the same thing, I know - but I've seen a few things, never good with attorneys (unless it's your attorney!)

An attorney would be the last straw. I am really hoping we can get this resolved and they do the right thing. I just wouldn't feel comfortable if they just offer me an extended warranty and call it a day. The only good thing here is that the second that light came on the Jeep did shut down, assuming that is some safety measure.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sample CF report - they track ownership, title history, service history, mileage history, and then this, and that's pretty much it. No place for engine or transmission that I can see so far - (love that disclaimer that not all accidents/issues are reported - well, DUH! as my wife would say. )

There's a place for "service history" but that's only if the service is reported and around here, even the MOPAR owner site doesn't show all of the service history of our vehicles - they don't all get entered online into that so I have to put those records in myself at times from the invoices.

 

[swtrailboss]

Yes the the very second the light came on the Jeep shut down, but this was right after the knocking, according to my wife it was basically Bang Bang, Bang, Light, Shut down. From what I can tell from the oil spill on the street that all took place with a few hundred feet from the spill to the dry area to where she said it broke down. She says the light came on for only a split second.

From what I can see from the street the plug worked its way out then it started to drop the oil while she was driving, It then looks like it mostly dumped out at a stop sign and when she started to go again and got right to the next intersection That is when she heard the knocking, the light came on then instantly the motor turned off. There was no smoke or other indicator for her to know this was happening.

The dealer must understand with distractions going on within the the vehicle (including a 2 year old ) warning lights are not going to always be noticed during a drive cycle. If the systems shut down the vehicle that will be their argument but don’t accept that. They will play that as a safeguard but don’t let them get one over on you. As far as lawyers go they can cost you more in retainer fees than you would pay in repairs(in most cases ). Yours as I said in my initial comment “just sucks” cuz no matter the outcome you won’t get what you think you deserve and they we won’t deliver but an engine replacement.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The dealer must understand with distractions going on within the the vehicle (including a 2 year old ) warning lights are not going to always be noticed during a drive cycle. If the systems shut down the vehicle that will be their argument but don’t accept that. They will play that as a safeguard but don’t let them get one over on you. As far as lawyers go they can cost you more in retainer fees than you would pay in repairs(in most cases ). Yours as I said in my initial comment “just sucks” cuz no matter the outcome you won’t get what you think you deserve and they we won’t deliver but an engine replacement.

Luckily many of those one would be dealing with at this level (higher up - like above the service manager level) won't be of technical mind at all so hopefully if dealt with properly, they won't even question it.
It's when you get deeper - if necessary - with attorneys and people who are ready to fight who will have done all of their homework, that it gets tricky.
With luck, it won't ever get that far.
I found dealing with sales people and the general management gets things moving right along. They usually don't know what lights or bells even exist.

 

[swtrailboss]

Luckily many of those one would be dealing with at this level (higher up - like above the service manager level) won't be of technical mind at all so hopefully if dealt with properly, they won't even question it.
It's when you get deeper - if necessary - with attorneys and people who are ready to fight who will have done all of their homework, that it gets tricky.
With luck, it won't ever get that far.
I found dealing with sales people and the general management gets things moving right along. They usually don't know what lights or bells even exist.

Yeah…….. let’s make sure “The HIGHER UP” take control before things get out of control……LOL ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It

Yeah…….. let’s make sure “The HIGHER UP” take control before things get out of control……LOL ?

worked for me. I got sales involved who leaned on the service manager......the general manager was aware of the issues.

 

[Kirk*Mojave]

I'd ask for a new motor and a extended warranty plus a loner car while the jeep is being repaired

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Getting a lawyer will help make sure they do the right thing. Lawyers are there to represent your interests and they know how to.

My advice would be to use a lawyer as an absolute last resort. Try to settle it yourself first without a lawyer.

Lawyers don’t help. They just cost money.

 

[Bevo67]

Now the advice is how do I handle the dealer...

Lots of folks have provided thoughts on how to handle this situation .. my 2cents: I would post the whole episode on Yelp and other social media to get the attention of the dealership owners (and maybe even Stellantis). This explicitly names which dealership it was. Oh, and posting helps others in your area decide where NOT to go for service. Just another pressure point.

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