Misfire investigation (in part)

[swtrailboss]

which if you clowns screwed this up, get it in here now and take care of it" (he might actually have used the words "horse's ass" but he'd say that out of earshot of the customer)

Yes for sure! Would be telling that tech to plan a late night to fix his screw up(at no cost to the customer or the dealer)!!! But in today’s PC world that might hurt someone’s feelings and create a human resource case…..

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[Maximus Gladius]

UPDATE: Just got back from my trip to BC and the the engine just purred. No engine hesitation at the higher RPM’s and that was just changing out #5 misfire spark plug. Showed my brother-in-law the plug for his opinion and he looked at that tip and said “it looks like a wire brush was used on it”. Perhaps when the tech “cleaned” up the upper engine bits and spark plugs for all the oil that was around there.

All I know, I’m replacing all the plugs but I was very pleased with my trip this weekend.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'd not take a wire brush to a modern type spark plug.

But my real bit here is that - that's not your truck. I can tell because it's showing miles and Fahrenheit, eh?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I'd not take a wire brush to a modern type spark plug.

But my real bit here is that - that's not your truck. I can tell because it's showing miles and Fahrenheit, eh?

I did that for you southern folk.

 

[Hootbro]

But my real bit here is that - that's not your truck. I can tell because it's showing miles and Fahrenheit, eh?

But he has a metric RPM gauge?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

…and did you plunk in the metric GPS coordinates to see where I was? I figured I’d post the US numbers cuz for the most part that’s the language expressed here and you know how much I like to help my neighbour, bless my heart.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

…and did you plunk in the metric GPS coordinates to see where I was? I figured I’d post the US numbers cuz for the most part that’s the language expressed here and you know how much I like to help my neighbour, bless my heart.

I don't have a trophy handy, but just figure you won the internet for the day for that. (my wife made me take all of my trophies out to my shop)

 

[hjdca]

I also agree that you are getting oil through your PCV valve into your intake. At 67K miles, I had accumulated carbon on my EGR and EGR sensor that tripped a check engine light for the EGR. Even though I was not burning any oil, I was getting 1 ounce of oil through the PCV valve into the intake every 500 to 1000 miles. You can try changing your PCV valve, there is a new part number for our trucks.... or go with an Oil catch can, or both. I decided to go with the Mishimoto catch can kit (has a nice drain hose) with is approx. $200 on sale vs. the new PVC part number which is approx. $135. Note: the old part number is approx. $35. Both the oil catch can and the PCV are super easy installs. Now, with the catch can, at least I know how much oil was moving into my intake... I will probably also change my PCV later. After installing the catch can, I ran 3 cans of - BG Products 44K Fuel System Cleaner - 3 Pack (amazon deal) through my fuel system to get rid of as much of carbon as possible. I will probably run another 3 pack (follow directions) through it in the coming months.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Even though I was not burning any oil, I was getting 1 ounce of oil through the PCV valve into the intake every 500 to 1000 miles.

Then you WERE burning oil - just not a lot of it.
The crankcase would be dropping 1 ounce every 500-1000 miles and you'd be burning it through the intake.

Mine is barely down at all between oil changes. Maybe 1/4 quart, tops, in 7,000 miles. It's a solid, tight, engine and one reason I resist trading for the unknown.

Since there are 32 ounces in a quart, 1/4 of a quart is 8 ounces.
So that's 1 ounce per thousand miles roughly speaking.
Figuring the number of cylinders, how many times each cylinder fires at a given road speed and so on - it's way too low to bother even thinking about.

1 ounce/thousand miles - it's a really tight engine, things working just about right.
Doesn't get a lot better than that.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

But what if after I put on my 7000 kms for my oil change, I take off the air box and look down the intake tube and there’s no puddle of oil but a seepage creep that doesn’t form anything in the tube pleats? If we’re thinking of installing an oil catch can and thinking we’d catch a cup or so of oil, wouldn’t there be a whole lot more oil in the intake tube?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But what if after I put on my 7000 kms for my oil change, I take off the air box and look down the intake tube and there’s no puddle of oil but a seepage creep that doesn’t form anything in the tube pleats? If we’re thinking of installing an oil catch can and thinking we’d catch a cup or so of oil, wouldn’t there be a whole lot more oil in the intake tube?

Yeah.
Thus my comments - my engine doesn't need a catch can. There's no excess of oil going through it.
Two things have to be observed -
one is what you said - in what I quoted above
the other -
Drop in oil level in the crankcase.
If you are seeing a lot of oil in the intake or catching a lot in a catch can, the level in the crankcase HAS TO drop the same amount.
The engine isn't making oil. Some will be lose through the rings - it can't be helped and is normal - minimal yes, but there must be some.
So in a sense, the oil level in the crankcase should be seen as dropping more than what goes to the catch can - or intake if no catch can.
What is found above has to come out of the crankcase.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

But what I’m saying is the oil burning plug (#5) and let’s assume all my plugs look like this is NOT because I have loose rings or blowby (cuz I don’t see anything of significance in the intake tube) but is because of the first 12L fill and upper intake manifold and intake tube that was full of oil into the runways and down onto the plugs and everything else it goes to. This mess wasn’t cleaned out as best as it could, the tech used a wire brush or screw driver on my plugs to clean them (Speculating here).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But what I’m saying is the oil burning plug (#5) and let’s assume all my plugs look like this is NOT because I have loose rings or blowby (cuz I don’t see anything of significance in the intake tube) but is because of the first 12L fill and upper intake manifold and intake tube that was full of oil into the runways and down onto the plugs and everything else it goes to. This mess wasn’t cleaned out as best as it could, the tech used a wire brush or screw driver on my plugs to clean them (Speculating here).

If you have a current problem, it should show up on the new #5 you installed in short order.
If they all look like that - it's very possible, even probable, that it goes back to that overfill.
The oil would be whipped into a frenzy - even with the windage tray these have made into them. That's a lot of over-fill. 1 quart - no problem, but 5? Hard to imagine that oil wasn't tossed about so badly the air in the upper part of the crankcase was loaded with oil, like a big fog.
I can't imagine even a perfect PCV handling that.

You'll know more as you get the other plugs changed, and even check the new #5 after a while.

 

[hjdca]

I started losing power and getting a P000A and P0300. JSCAN live helped log the misfires and the massive error on the intake cam movement during the misfires....

Bad News. P000A & P0300 meant bank 1 intake cam killed and maybe a dead phaser. All high lift lobes completely destroyed. All the high lift part of the rockers destroyed. The OCV looked unclogged. I did not have any abnormal ticking or clicking because, Interestingly, the bearings in the low lift part of the roller rockers were fine. I mean there is no play in the low lift part of the roller intake rockers, nor the roller exhaust rockers. The flat tappet mating surfaces of the high lift part of the rocker just wore out. The Exhaust cam is fine. I decided to change Bank 1 intake cam, phaser, oil control valve, rockers, & lash adjusters. I also changed the Exhaust cam rockers and lash adjusters, but, there was nothing wrong with the ones that were installed. I still do not know what caused this extensive wear. I have changed my oil 18 times, always around 3500 miles, using Pennzoil synthetic 0w20 and Mopar Oil filter... 68K miles.... I bought the JTR Oct. 2019, roughly a 2019 summer build... The truck is running great again. I changed to a different brand of oil and viscosity, but, I really do not think that had anything to do with it... Here are the sad pictures...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It wasn't the oil brand, etc.
2019 - 2020 meaning 2020 model year had/has the largest failure rate. My bet - a materials or process issue since it is almost always the same cam, same side, same model year (there are some exceptions, but not in a large enough number to be a major concern for the masses)

The "ticking" isn't related to the rollers - the rollers are the low lift profile and that's what you run on most of the time - below about 3,000 RPM. Since the low lift cam profiles and follower rollers are ok, there may not be a "tick".

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