Mojave diesel?

[RedTRex]

I would expect a V8 first but chances of that are slim also...

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[RedTRex]

im not trying to sound like a dick, but it isnt easy af.

they have to design the concept, contract fox to develop the new suspension
put the test model through internal testing
submit it to dot for testing and approval
submit it to nhsta for testing and approval
develop all of the testing and approval for other markets

each of those steps is a massive undertaking individually. And im skipping a bunch. Its not just “hey increase the spring rate in the front and toss that shim over there in the front shock and take it to the dealer lot.“. When a manufacturer makes a chassis change or engine change a whole host of testing and government approvals goes with it. Its expensive and time consuming, and it probably isnt worth for as small a sale number as a diesel mojave would be.

Youre more likely to see it in a srt8 special edition.

to each their own but imo the diesel isnt worth it on the gladiator, and im a huge diesel fan Coming from 2500cummins. the fuel economy savings is devoured by the cost of ticking the option box; the towing is less; and dealing with egr long term is an expensive pain in the ass.

Each submodel does not need to be submitted to DOT/NHTSA for testing/approval

nor as Billy said is it more difficult to change to springs and shocks than to account for additional weight .... it's a few hundred pounds, you have that between a sport and a Rubicon

 

[KurtP]

Each submodel does not need to be submitted to DOT/NHTSA for testing/approval

nor as Billy said is it more difficult to change to springs and shocks than to account for additional weight .... it's a few hundred pounds, you have that between a sport and a Rubicon

cool. Then just let Jeep know so they can toss some new springs on the axle and a new shim in the damper and get it on dealer lots. or better yet, skip all that non sense and just plunk the motor down in it and roll.

 

[WXman]

Well, part of the issue was that they didn't have room for the shock reservoirs, right? So they put those in a weird location behind the front bumper. The diesel needs an intercooler and additional space there. So diesel plus Mojave shocks means repackaging a lot of stuff.

 

[KurtP]

Well, part of the issue was that they didn't have room for the shock reservoirs, right? So they put those in a weird location behind the front bumper. The diesel needs an intercooler and additional space there. So diesel plus Mojave shocks means repackaging a lot of stuff.

nah, I dont think so. All they gotta do a drop the motor in and ship it, evidently.

kidding.

That's a part of it, I'm sure. A mojave with a diesel would require some redesign/repackaging of the intercooler/shock/radiator/etc. What takes a short amount of time for the aftermarket to to change takes a long time and a lot of cost for OEM to engineer/manufacture.......

 

[MoparToYou]

There is a Mojave review on youtube by TFL, where they talk to the engineer at Jeep that is responsible for the Gladiator platform. In the interview he talks about one of the primary concerns when developing the Mojave was keeping the weight down. They wanted to keep weight down to get the suspension to work better. He states that that was the reason they did not include the swaybar disconnect or have a steel front bumper option (along with cost). If they were so concerned about weight that they would not add a swaybar disconnect option, how are they going to be able to add a diesel engine option?

The spring rates on the Mojave are very soft, and shock tuning is dialed in precisely for a stock Mojave. Even small changes, like adding a winch, make a difference in ride height and suspension feel. They would definitely have to reconfigure the set up for a diesel engine. Which of course they could do.

 

[KurtP]

There is a Mojave review on youtube by TFL, where they talk to the engineer at Jeep that is responsible for the Gladiator platform. In the interview he talks about one of the primary concerns when developing the Mojave was keeping the weight down. They wanted to keep weight down to get the suspension to work better. He states that that was the reason they did not include the swaybar disconnect or have a steel front bumper option (along with cost). If they were so concerned about weight that they would not add a swaybar disconnect option, how are they going to be able to add a diesel engine option?

The spring rates on the Mojave are very soft, and shock tuning is dialed in precisely for a stock Mojave. Even small changes, like adding a winch, make a difference in ride height and suspension feel. They would definitely have to reconfigure the set up for a diesel engine. Which of course they could do.

weight is always the enemy of performance. Higher weight at high speed for prolonged time leads to fading shock performance, even in big reservoir shocks. The more weight on the truck, the stiffer the valving the shock needs, the harder it is to keep the shock performing. The stiffer the valving, you hit a point where you need separate adjustable high speed and low speed damping ports to control wheel travel. The cascade of tuning goes on. Im not sure what the number is, but look at the weight difference is for a 3.0 Diesel all in vs the 3.6....

This is why i said before the diesel would require a full redesign of front suspension....which means to keep the frequency tuning in check, the entirety of the rear needs to be redesigned too. The ram 2500 has something like 40+ different front springs and nearly 20 rear springs for frequency tuning the different options of the truck.

Suspension design is incredibly complex and involved, and there is a reason the Mojave corners almost level but still keeps the cab substantially less disturbed over bumps at speed than the other models. It took Fox ~3 years of designing and testing with Jeep to get the Mojave to work the way they wanted it to. I believe compared to rubicon, the rear springs are softer and the front springs are firmer. it body rolls WAY less.

I'd love to put the Mojave shocks on a shock dyno and see exactly what they are doing. But that would cost ~$1,500 out of my pocket to provide info that companies then use to make money, so I feel hard pressed to front it all myself.

 

[Billy]

weight is always the enemy of performance. Higher weight at high speed for prolonged time leads to fading shock performance, even in big reservoir shocks. The more weight on the truck, the stiffer the valving the shock needs, the harder it is to keep the shock performing. The stiffer the valving, you hit a point where you need separate adjustable high speed and low speed damping ports to control wheel travel. The cascade of tuning goes on. Im not sure what the number is, but look at the weight difference is for a 3.0 Diesel all in vs the 3.6....

This is why i said before the diesel would require a full redesign of front suspension....which means to keep the frequency tuning in check, the entirety of the rear needs to be redesigned too. The ram 2500 has something like 40+ different front springs and nearly 20 rear springs for frequency tuning the different options of the truck.

Suspension design is incredibly complex and involved, and there is a reason the Mojave corners almost level but still keeps the cab substantially less disturbed over bumps at speed than the other models. It took Fox ~3 years of designing and testing with Jeep to get the Mojave to work the way they wanted it to. I believe compared to rubicon, the rear springs are softer and the front springs are firmer. it body rolls WAY less.

I'd love to put the Mojave shocks on a shock dyno and see exactly what they are doing. But that would cost ~$1,500 out of my pocket to provide info that companies then use to make money, so I feel hard pressed to front it all myself.

The diesel’s 300 pound delta over the 3.6 amounts to a 6% increase in over all weight of the truck. Pretty sure that both FCA and Fox could plug that into their formula and spit out new spring rates and damper specs in mere moments.

 

[KurtP]

The diesel’s 300 pound delta over the 3.6 amounts to a 6% increase in over all weight of the truck. Pretty sure that both FCA and Fox could plug that into their formula and spit out new spring rates and damper specs in mere moments.

you know what, you're right. Not sure how they missed that. You should tell them you're headed out to give their engineers much needed lessons in suspension design. When you're done there, head to marketing and budget and explain to them how they are going to sell sufficient numbers to justify the engineering time. The 2-3 people here on the forum swearing they'll buy one should be enough to cover the time it takes to plop the 6% increase into the formula.

 

[Billy]

you know what, you're right. Not sure how they missed that. You should tell them you're headed out to give their engineers much needed lessons in suspension design. When you're done there, head to marketing and budget and explain to them how they are going to sell sufficient numbers to justify the engineering time. The 2-3 people here on the forum swearing they'll buy one should be enough to cover the time it takes to plop the 6% increase into the formula.

I’ll get right on that.

 

[KurtP]

I’ll get right on that.

in for youtube live stream.

 

[Billy]

you know what, you're right. Not sure how they missed that. You should tell them you're headed out to give their engineers much needed lessons in suspension design. When you're done there, head to marketing and budget and explain to them how they are going to sell sufficient numbers to justify the engineering time. The 2-3 people here on the forum swearing they'll buy one should be enough to cover the time it takes to plop the 6% increase into the formula.

Know what? The purpose of forums like this one is to talk about Jeeps. How ‘bout we keep it civil? Neither of us are designers for FCA, but it sounds like we both have chops in design, and in particular, suspension. If you don’t like my take on these things, agree to disagree, and stop acting like a know it all.

 

[KurtP]

Know what? The purpose of forums like this one is to talk about Jeeps. How ‘bout we keep it civil? Neither of us are designers for FCA, but it sounds like we both have chops in design, and in particular, suspension. If you don’t like my take on these things, agree to disagree, and stop acting like a know it all.

If youre feelings are hurt, then I apologize. you're mad that what you want isn't likely to get built, and so are others, and many don't understand the reasons why, and understandably so. It's always good to ask questions rather than make arguments, then over the course of a lifetime you'll realize you know a ot more than a lot of other people do about a lot of different things; then you can share a lot of information with a lot of people, and everyone wins. "Agreeing to disagree" doesn't work when one side is patently wrong about their assertion of how something works, though...that said, please dont take dry sarcasm as a slight against you personally. it isnt.

You know what? I'd love a Diesel Mojave, but the reality is it would be a low sale volume item, which makes the proposition of the engineering extremely un likely, especially based on how they have marketed it. It think its more likely to see an AEV JT370 diesel on your dealer lot than a Mojave Diesel, and with the 8100 remote resi option....you'd have a solid performer.

I had no idea how much went into vehicle design until I had to start managing an armored vehicle portfolio, and dealing with the regs, and dealing with the shipping, and dealing with the approvals, and the re certifying, and the re stickering, and on and on and on. And I'm not talking about the armor regulation portion, Im talking just the modifying a vehicle portion. Messing with pervasively regulated items like vehicles is a colossal pain in the ass. Companies have to know they are going to turn a substantial profit on something before they go both in house and out of house to design (and contract fox to design) a bespoke platform.

There's just a shit ton of work to be done there, and FCA very likely doesn't see the value in it, when they can release a Mojave SRT-8 "special edition" with a lot more fan fair, a lot better fit to the marketing campaign, and a larger "special edition" profit margin. It's just the reality, despite how cool a diesel Mojave overland type rig would be.

Cheers.

 

[Billy]

"Agreeing to disagree" doesn't work when one side is patently wrong about their assertion of how something works.

This is no longer a discussion. Nor is it sarcasm. You’re just an asshat. GFY.

 

[WXman]

I’ll get right on that.

While you're at it, ask them a question for me. A burning question that keeps bugging me. Why did they build the Ram TRX, the biggest baddest pickup truck ever made, and then saddle it with a 920 lb. payload rating that effectively destroys its usefulness as a truck? I mean, why the F would they do that? A crew cab full size supercharged pickup truck that won't legally be able to tow a lawn mower if there is a family in the cab.

Super squishy off road suspension and towing/hauling apparently are mutually exclusive.

This is why trucks like the Ford Super Duty Tremor are so unique....they actually give a guy BOTH.

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