Mojave rear shocks are bad at 18,000 miles

[ShadowsPapa]

Could be the reason MOPAR and Fox aren't doing business any more.

Fox knows there's problems (warranty claims prove this) and won't build to that spec because they don't want the warranty liability.

Or is it the other way around? What about the ZF transmissions? There are more issues with the Jeep transmissions made in Germany by ZF than those made in the US by FCA.

There are times, and I've witnessed it, as did my father, a UAW member/factory worker through all of his best years, as did a co-worker who worked inside Sears appliances division years ago. Sometimes the customer has better specs, and the supplier screws up, or what the supplier makes to sell under their own name isn't good enough for a customer, and the customer insists on better or different specs, but the supplier screws up.

We're all speculating here, 100%, no evidence to support either way, there was a problem, they parted ways - now we need better shocks.

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[kevman65]

Here's something with some irony in all of that............
Starting about 1967, AMC switched over to Motorcraft starters for their V8 engines. Built to AMC specs for the most part, but using stock/standard armatures, moveable pole shoes, field windings and brush end plates. Nose housing was a combo of AMC and Ford specs, the drive was all AMC.
AMC started getting reports of the starter drive hanging up and not engaging into the ring gear. They got a lot of warranty claims on it and finally their engineers investigated (rather than relying on Ford - who had no real solution)
AMC determined that upon activation of the armature, a strong magnetic field was being created in a retaining ring on the armature behind the starter drive. Their solution - replace the steel retainer with a bronze ring and go to a different drive return spring to loosen the force against the drive being pushed into the ring gear.
It worked.
A few months later - Ford decided, hey, good idea, and you started seeing the modified armature with the green AMC spring in Ford starters used on Ford car and truck engines.
A case of the customer fixing a problem for the supplier and the supplier using that fix for their own vehicles.

Similar examples can be found with Sears Kenmore appliances, actually having tougher specs and higher quality than the company who made them own products.

There are times, and there are other examples, where a customer's specs are tighter than those of the company that makes those items for the customer but also makes a similar item for sale through their own brands. So is it a MOPAR spec issue, or a Fox issue? Hmmmmmmm.

Don't know.

What's the overall complaints/warranty issues with a Fox spec shock versus a MOPAR spec shock built by Fox?

Fox shocks are well known in the off road world, whether it's 4 wheels or 2 wheels. I think their engineers would know a tad more about the business than a MOPAR engineer who is trying to build within a budget restraint.

 

[cfowler55]

Mine made a squeaking noise intermittently. Mainly the front. Removed the dust shields, raised suspension, and put a dab of silicone grease on the piston. The grease will work into the dust boot , which seems to be the problem. This seems to last at least 6 months.
Charlie F

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Don't know.

What's the overall complaints/warranty issues with a Fox spec shock versus a MOPAR spec shock built by Fox?

Fox shocks are well known in the off road world, whether it's 4 wheels or 2 wheels. I think their engineers would know a tad more about the business than a MOPAR engineer who is trying to build within a budget restraint.

You could be 100% spot on - but MOPAR has also been spec'ing shocks for decades, longer than Fox.
What they sell through vendors, etc. is going to be a totally different thing from what would be mass-produced by the tens of thousands for sale on a vehicle.
What's the cost of the Fox shocks you mention being sold to off-roaders.
We're comparing generic apples to a hybrid apple costing 3 times as much.
Very possible that Fox simply wasn't capable of making a mass-produced shock for Jeep in the numbers required.

Back to pure speculation. Fox high end shocks are good - but look at the cost. And there are just as good, or better shocks out there. People seem to be fine with the red shocks going on the Rubicons now - so was it a MOPAR spec thing? Or a Fox failure at that price point.
If it's MOPAR's fault, then any shock they have any company make for the Rubicon will see similar failure rates - if it's a problem with mopar specs.
MOPAR gives their specs to Fox, and company B.
People complain about the Fox shocks on Rubicon, they suck, they bounce, they have problems, lots of warranty claims.
MOPAR gives same specs to company B - shocks are better, fewer complaints, bounce is gone.

Time will tell because it's not been all that long that the shocks on Rubicon and in the lift kits went red instead of Fox.

But I find it interesting that MOPAR is buying shocks from another company - with fewer issues.

 

[kevman65]

You could be 100% spot on - but MOPAR has also been spec'ing shocks for decades, longer than Fox.
What they sell through vendors, etc. is going to be a totally different thing from what would be mass-produced by the tens of thousands for sale on a vehicle.
What's the cost of the Fox shocks you mention being sold to off-roaders.
We're comparing generic apples to a hybrid apple costing 3 times as much.
Very possible that Fox simply wasn't capable of making a mass-produced shock for Jeep in the numbers required.

Back to pure speculation. Fox high end shocks are good - but look at the cost. And there are just as good, or better shocks out there. People seem to be fine with the red shocks going on the Rubicons now - so was it a MOPAR spec thing? Or a Fox failure at that price point.
If it's MOPAR's fault, then any shock they have any company make for the Rubicon will see similar failure rates - if it's a problem with mopar specs.
MOPAR gives their specs to Fox, and company B.
People complain about the Fox shocks on Rubicon, they suck, they bounce, they have problems, lots of warranty claims.
MOPAR gives same specs to company B - shocks are better, fewer complaints, bounce is gone.

Time will tell because it's not been all that long that the shocks on Rubicon and in the lift kits went red instead of Fox.

But I find it interesting that MOPAR is buying shocks from another company - with fewer issues.

Or the second company told MOPAR they would build them shocks for $X per unit ONLY if they are built to their internal specs and not MOPAR's, or they wouldn't warranty any of them.

Bill, I've worked QA/QC for years, I know how this goes. I've also used Fox spec shocks in the past, and not high end like you're leading to, and there weren't these kinds of problems with their shocks.

I've rebuilt plenty of shocks and forks on motorcycles, where they save the money is on the seals, shims, and valving. Everyone and their brother knows MOPAR/Jeep buys the bare minimum to sell for maximum profit and they hope the part lasts 36,000 miles or 36 months.

Case in point, junk ass batteries.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Or the second company told MOPAR they would build them shocks for $X per unit ONLY if they are built to their internal specs and not MOPAR's, or they wouldn't warranty any of them.

Bill, I've worked QA/QC for years, I know how this goes. I've also used Fox spec shocks in the past, and not high end like you're leading to, and there weren't these kinds of problems with their shocks.

I've rebuilt plenty of shocks and forks on motorcycles, where they save the money is on the seals, shims, and valving. Everyone and their brother knows MOPAR/Jeep buys the bare minimum to sell for maximum profit and they hope the part lasts 36,000 miles or 36 months.

Case in point, junk ass batteries.

Agreed. Some of this is just the way it is. We shouldn’t expect high end aftermarket quality from Oem. Not realistic.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Or the second company told MOPAR they would build them shocks for $X per unit ONLY if they are built to their internal specs and not MOPAR's, or they wouldn't warranty any of them.

Bill, I've worked QA/QC for years, I know how this goes. I've also used Fox spec shocks in the past, and not high end like you're leading to, and there weren't these kinds of problems with their shocks.

I've rebuilt plenty of shocks and forks on motorcycles, where they save the money is on the seals, shims, and valving. Everyone and their brother knows MOPAR/Jeep buys the bare minimum to sell for maximum profit and they hope the part lasts 36,000 miles or 36 months.

Case in point, junk ass batteries.

You have honestly good points, I was just tossing out other examples, and how we can't be dead certain of anything (oh, unless it's their batteries - that's just sad - and it's been going on for years. Even several years ago a service advisor was saying "we've been running into a lot of bad batteries" and that was with 2018 model year Jeeps.)
Put in quality batteries of the highest capacity you can fit in, and it's like magic - battery problems seem to evaporate.

You are probably closer to what's going on with these specifics.

 

[WILDHOBO]

You have honestly good points, I was just tossing out other examples, and how we can't be dead certain of anything (oh, unless it's their batteries - that's just sad - and it's been going on for years. Even several years ago a service advisor was saying "we've been running into a lot of bad batteries" and that was with 2018 model year Jeeps.)
Put in quality batteries of the highest capacity you can fit in, and it's like magic - battery problems seem to evaporate.

You are probably closer to what's going on with these specifics.

But Jeep knows their consumers. If they spend more on better shocks, better batteries, better springs, etc. the cost per vehicle will go up $750 further above ford and GM, and customers will buy those instead. If they keep doing what they’re doing, the vehicles will sell enough for them to profit. 90% of owners won’t push them to their limits, and the parts will last through the 3yr/36k. The few of us that try to squeeze every ounce of fun from jeeps will have parts wear out early. Oh well.

 

[bleda2002]

You could be 100% spot on - but MOPAR has also been spec'ing shocks for decades, longer than Fox.
What they sell through vendors, etc. is going to be a totally different thing from what would be mass-produced by the tens of thousands for sale on a vehicle.
What's the cost of the Fox shocks you mention being sold to off-roaders.
We're comparing generic apples to a hybrid apple costing 3 times as much.
Very possible that Fox simply wasn't capable of making a mass-produced shock for Jeep in the numbers required.

Back to pure speculation. Fox high end shocks are good - but look at the cost. And there are just as good, or better shocks out there. People seem to be fine with the red shocks going on the Rubicons now - so was it a MOPAR spec thing? Or a Fox failure at that price point.
If it's MOPAR's fault, then any shock they have any company make for the Rubicon will see similar failure rates - if it's a problem with mopar specs.
MOPAR gives their specs to Fox, and company B.
People complain about the Fox shocks on Rubicon, they suck, they bounce, they have problems, lots of warranty claims.
MOPAR gives same specs to company B - shocks are better, fewer complaints, bounce is gone.

Time will tell because it's not been all that long that the shocks on Rubicon and in the lift kits went red instead of Fox.

But I find it interesting that MOPAR is buying shocks from another company - with fewer issues.

Fox makes tons of OEM shocks that are fantastic, sxs, Raptors, Toyotas all have off road spec fox shocks that are long lasting and great reputation as well as great ride.

Mopar just gave some really shitty valve specs this time. In fact bds and fox took back all the Mopar spec valve'd shocks from the Mopar lift and re-built them all with new valves as the 2.5 ifp shock and they're night and day better than the Mopar spec. For whatever reason Mopar just likes to valve progressive shocks overly soft for off road applications.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

For whatever reason Mopar just likes to valve progressive shocks overly soft for off road applications.

I get where you two are coming from - and thanks for the added info. It's helpful.

I can see it for pure off-road, the shock needs to "move" more quickly to allow for the axle articulation and not have a slow drop or rise but it makes for horrible street manners or when at speed of any sort.
It would be like trying to use 90/10 drag shocks for a street vehicle. It's going to ride like crap, but the weight transfer is superior when needed on the strip.

The "red shocks" on our JLU are a really good ride (different vehicle, I know - a lot shorter, and heavy) so is this a JT only thing?
I've never felt there was an issue with the feel of the fronts, only the rears, on JTs I've owned or driven. In fact, the fronts on my 2022 leaked, but they dampened fine (until they leaked a bit too much)

Mojave I test drove felt well dampened - not harsh, not mushy.............. if I had a Mojave, I'd not have the slightest temptation to change shocks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But Jeep knows their consumers. If they spend more on better shocks, better batteries, better springs, etc. the cost per vehicle will go up $750 further above ford and GM, and customers will buy those instead. If they keep doing what they’re doing, the vehicles will sell enough for them to profit. 90% of owners won’t push them to their limits, and the parts will last through the 3yr/36k. The few of us that try to squeeze every ounce of fun from jeeps will have parts wear out early. Oh well.

They also know a fair number, vs the Ford and Chevy guys, will do lifts, tires, wheels - and in the process, what different shocks, etc. so in a way I can see "why spend so much on great shocks since 12% will be pulling them off anyway". (speculating, of course)

Frankly, if I wasn't picky, and knew that "this isn't how it should be" - my JT would likely have original shocks and i'd have been happy with the Fox shocks on my 2020. Most owners won't know or care - it's just fine as it is. My wife gave me a "huh??" type of look when I mentioned once about the bounce my jt had in the rear when exiting the garage. She thought it was fine - most would think it was fine. And she loved the ride of the 2020 with the Fox shocks! So there you have it - when most people will think it's just fine, and the rest will take them off anyway, why spend more money on better parts?

 

[Cooper_D]

As much as I love all this speculation and can agree with all of it, at the end of the day all I want to do is go to any or all shock makers web sites, punch in Mojave and be given something other than “we don’t have anything to match your description“

Since we are reminiscing of the past, how about the air ride suspension in the late 1980’s Chrysler, built by Bosch.
Chrysler and Bosch had a falling out after 6 months & Bosch refused to sell parts to repair it.
If me serves me correctly it cast $4,000 to repair it in 1993 To make matters worse in order to get a working unit you had to send in a unit that could be rebuilt before they would send you a replacement.
If the one you sent couldn’t be fixed you would not get a replacement.

Oh the joy of being a service writer “back in the day”

 

[WILDHOBO]

As much as I love all this speculation and can agree with all of it, at the end of the day all I want to do is go to any or all shock makers web sites, punch in Mojave and be given something other than “we don’t have anything to match your description“

Since we are reminiscing of the past, how about the air ride suspension in the late 1980’s Chrysler, built by Bosch.
Chrysler and Bosch had a falling out after 6 months & Bosch refused to sell parts to repair it.
If me serves me correctly it cast $4,000 to repair it in 1993 To make matters worse in order to get a working unit you had to send in a unit that could be rebuilt before they would send you a replacement.
If the one you sent couldn’t be fixed you would not get a replacement.

Oh the joy of being a service writer “back in the day”

You will spend more than Fox or king, but you’ll get triple or better the miles before rebuild, and you’ll have a super Mohave. Call and ask for Cody at SDI. I have little doubt that they can ship you something truly amazing for your Mojave.

 

[bleda2002]

As much as I love all this speculation and can agree with all of it, at the end of the day all I want to do is go to any or all shock makers web sites, punch in Mojave and be given something other than “we don’t have anything to match your description“

Since we are reminiscing of the past, how about the air ride suspension in the late 1980’s Chrysler, built by Bosch.
Chrysler and Bosch had a falling out after 6 months & Bosch refused to sell parts to repair it.
If me serves me correctly it cast $4,000 to repair it in 1993 To make matters worse in order to get a working unit you had to send in a unit that could be rebuilt before they would send you a replacement.
If the one you sent couldn’t be fixed you would not get a replacement.

Oh the joy of being a service writer “back in the day”

Its just the shock bolt being different, ream out or replace the shock's bushing and it will fit the mojave.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

As much as I love all this speculation and can agree with all of it, at the end of the day all I want to do is go to any or all shock makers web sites, punch in Mojave and be given something other than “we don’t have anything to match your description“

Since we are reminiscing of the past, how about the air ride suspension in the late 1980’s Chrysler, built by Bosch.
Chrysler and Bosch had a falling out after 6 months & Bosch refused to sell parts to repair it.
If me serves me correctly it cast $4,000 to repair it in 1993 To make matters worse in order to get a working unit you had to send in a unit that could be rebuilt before they would send you a replacement.
If the one you sent couldn’t be fixed you would not get a replacement.

Oh the joy of being a service writer “back in the day”

LOL, yeah, back to the root of the problem............

What I have found - especially with some of the more "special" versions of things (own a 4xe and you run into this constantly) - call a company and talk to them.
Web sites, including MOPAR's own sites for build and price, among others, are often far behind, or a company has something that will work but will not publish "this will work" until they have tried it on a specific model year - even if we know "nothing has changed" - they don't want to put it out there that it will work on a 23 or 24 until they have tried it.
BUT - the people on the other end of the phone conversation may know and say yes it will work. They just don't want it in writing yet.
Found that for some 4xe parts - hey, a 4xe Rubicon is still absolutely a Rubicon but they are afraid to say it will work.
The one-touch down window module sold for Jeep JL and JT models - mention 4xe and they say no, it won't work! We've not tried it.
But - the interior systems, the electronics, it still exactly like any other Jeep JL or JT - still all 12 volts and still same window motors, identical switches and so on.

Anyway, you may have to call and talk to someone. Web sites can be horribly inaccurate, behind in information, or they just don't want it in print so you can print it and come back later with "but your web site says...........".

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