More runaround on the 4xe transmission

[ShadowsPapa]

Is it possible to get an endoscope camera up in there?
I have used mine on several things like this and it works well.
There are cheaper. This is just an example. Do your own shopping.

https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Teslong-Megapixels-Inspection-Multifunction/dp/B07HVT2XZL/

I was thinking of checking with the local hospitals and seeing what they did with their old ones............. but maybe starting with a clean one would be better.

Actually, I had considered one as long as it would fit through a spark plug hole. Could have used one a few years back to help diagnose a #8 cylinder issue on a car, and even now, have one that's a bit suspect and would like to look inside and examine for carbon or valve issues.

Cheaper isn't always gooder - my wife would tell me to send back a cheap one and try again.

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[RJinPV]

I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you. Sometimes a gasket doesn't work when there is a defect in one of the two sealing surfaces such as burs or indents preventing the gasket to seal. But you know this. You said they already tried two pans. What about the transmission surface the pan mates with? Maybe that has a defect? Did they check, or even address that? At the point in the process you are you are in I would want to inspect it myself, or start insisting on whole new transmission. I hope you finally get them to involve FCA too. You'd think they would be more responsive given your status in this forum!

 

[RJinPV]

Just thinking about the possible causes for a gasket leak:

• Pan sealing surface defects
• Transmission case mating surface defects
• Gasket damaged
• Gasket material, thickness, or other design elements are wrong
• Pan defects in the bolt mating side preventing the the bolt flange or locking washer from seating properly.
• Bolts are too long (supplier variation at the factory)
• Bolt holes are too shallow
• Bolt holes are filled with foreign material
• Torque specs are wrong (too low)
• Bolt torquing sequence is not optimal
• Bolt grade is not to spec

Just trying to give you some more ideas to insist they chase down. I just hope it's not a design issue.

 

[Charles 236]

As far as I can remember, the ZF eight speed fluid already has dye from the factory, so no need to add dye. I haven't actually chased any leaks on a 4xe (except for the coolant inlet tube that is subject to a recall), but I have seen issues with the electrical connector at the passenger side rear end of the transmission on a regular ZF eight speed.

After the three attempts, I would not want the dealership to try to fix it. I would "ask" for a replacement transmission, as an alternative to a lemon law buy back situation. I know, working in a dealership, the hoops that Stellantis puts in the way of warranty claims, but the dealership could probably find a way to make it happen. Also, the service director (manager) should have some pull with the district and/or regional service managers to get it covered.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Just thinking about the possible causes for a gasket leak:

• Pan sealing surface defects
• Transmission case mating surface defects
• Gasket damaged
• Gasket material, thickness, or other design elements are wrong
• Pan defects in the bolt mating side preventing the the bolt flange or locking washer from seating properly.
• Bolts are too long (supplier variation at the factory)
• Bolt holes are too shallow
• Bolt holes are filled with foreign material
• Torque specs are wrong (too low)
• Bolt torquing sequence is not optimal
• Bolt grade is not to spec

Just trying to give you some more ideas to insist they chase down. I just hope it's not a design issue.

One can consider it to be even more "sad" due to this fact:

Our JT transmissions are made by Chrysler in Indiana at a FCA facility under license from ZF. It's a MOPAR made transmission - made by MOPAR in their own facility by Americans in the UAW, living and working in the USA using FCA tooling and equipment and specifications based on the ZF design.
It does not leak.

The WL and JL 4xe transmissions are a ZF transmission made BY ZF in GERMANY in a ZF owned and managed facility by German workers, engineered by German engineers
It leaks.

 

[AmosMoses]

I thought most transmission pan gasket surfaces on the trans, were machined? Should look nice and shiny when you take the pan off.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I thought most transmission pan gasket surfaces on the trans, were machined? Should look nice and shiny when you take the pan off.

Yes, doesn't mean they can't be cracked or warped to the point the pan can't "flex" or give enough to seal against low spots.

Below - a ZF transmission case being machined, guided by a laser -

 

[ShadowsPapa]

As far as I can remember, the ZF eight speed fluid already has dye from the factory, so no need to add dye. I haven't actually chased any leaks on a 4xe (except for the coolant inlet tube that is subject to a recall), but I have seen issues with the electrical connector at the passenger side rear end of the transmission on a regular ZF eight speed.

After the three attempts, I would not want the dealership to try to fix it. I would "ask" for a replacement transmission, as an alternative to a lemon law buy back situation. I know, working in a dealership, the hoops that Stellantis puts in the way of warranty claims, but the dealership could probably find a way to make it happen. Also, the service director (manager) should have some pull with the district and/or regional service managers to get it covered.

i need to see if this transmission has that connector. It could explain things.

Is it possible to get an endoscope camera up in there?
I have used mine on several things like this and it works well.
There are cheaper. This is just an example. Do your own shopping.

https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Teslong-Megapixels-Inspection-Multifunction/dp/B07HVT2XZL/

(thanks for the idea...........)
I have coming in today's Amazon bundle - the amateur colonoscopy scope, and a black light flashlight.

I will tell them to hold off doing anything with the pan until:
They call Jeep proper, STAR, whoever
Let me come and look at it with the black light and scope


It just hit me that because they closed the ticket of 11/7/23 and sent the Jeep back home with me, technically, that was their 3rd time sending it back leaking. I now have in my hands 3 closed tickets.
They started another session when they took it back on Wednesday - and technically on another work order I'd assume, so I see this time as the 4th time.
I'm already past the 3 times with the same problem unresolved unless someone sees a flaw in my thinking.

These days I sort of relate to Jimmy Buffett

 

[ZoMojave]

You'd think they would be more responsive given your status in this forum.

Really? Social media pages never seemed to have an impact on issues at my dealership.

 

[Lunentucker]

Really? Social media pages never seemed to have an impact on issues at my dealership.

My Toyota dealer got moving when I launched a Photoshop campaign against them on Facebook years ago.
They had my truck sitting in a field by the dealership for months, waiting for the frame replacement.
These two Goobers were their ad campaign at the time - "Haley has it. Yes, yes we do".
So I put them on my truck.

 

[ZoMojave]

My Toyota dealer got moving when I launched a Photoshop campaign against them on Facebook years ago.
They had my truck sitting in a field by the dealership for months, waiting for the frame replacement.
These two Goobers were their ad campaign at the time - "Haley has it. Yes, yes we do".
So I put them on my truck.

Hopefully that got their attention!

 

[WILDHOBO]

Sorry to hear you’re dealing with this @ShadowsPapa

 

[Lunentucker]

Hopefully that got their attention!

Very much so. It was done the next week.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

As far as I can remember, the ZF eight speed fluid already has dye from the factory, so no need to add dye.

I found a TSB (related to the ZF behind the 3.6) that indeed says there's a dye from the factory.

I assume then a black light flashlight could be used????

 

[chorky]

Totally agree - I wasn't happy to hear they were talking of getting rid of the gasket and using only RTV on a non-cast and machined pan. I've had years of bad luck in that area with other transmissions. Might work on a situation with two machined cast surfaces, but I'm not convinced.........

One thought, and I welcome opinions since I'm obviously "close to the situation" so to speak, is that if it fails after a 3rd attempt, and I look at lemon law - they must:
* Buy it back (reduced by use of course) but then you are back to square one.
* Replace it (simply not possible - there's not another available in the whole country)
* Repair it - and that's where FCA would have to be directly involved and tell the shop how it's to be resolved. It would no longer by at the discretion of the shop, but up to FCA to say - fix it.
I'd also insist on a bit more warranty.
Right now, it's the dealership driving this thing. FCA hasn't even been contacted from what I can determine - only the regional guy the service manager keeps referring to. So it's still up to the shop how to handle it. Taking it up to the next level means the shop has fewer choices.

I have questions for them, but it would involve yet another personal visit to get them to show me how those locating "nipples" on the gasket are the problem - they stick down below the pan, through the holes in the pan. They aren't otherwise involved. it's a tab going through a hole otherwise the gasket is flat on both sides.
And - why only the REAR? None of us - the dozen or so of us I've seen on forums - have it leaking any place else. ALWAYS the rear of the pan. Never the sides, never the front. If it's a design issue - why not other leaks in other places?
I've found a couple of FB pages where even more people are talking of of the same thing.
So far I've found 4 people who have said they forced a buy-back after several attempts at repair. Some have said that Jeep "engineers" told the shop to replace the transmission. This is suggesting, and only that, suggesting that this dealership has not contacted Jeep.

Oh man....this makes me so angry for you. If they used RTV I would be furious and absolutely contacting a lawyer. I get that they just want it 'fixed' but that's not the appropriate fix. It also has me questioning their competencies. usually, in my experiences, techs used RTV to fill in the gaps because something else was bad. Poor machining surfaces, something bent or cracked, or too much metal shaven off when cleaning off the old gasket. Something I've seen far too many times.

hat was performed without following the FSM. Before allowing them to goop RTV on that gasket, I'd want something official from Jeep stating that this is acceptable, along with a clearly defined process/procedure and RTV specification.

I would bet my paycheck if they did use RTV, Jeep would then void the warranty.

here's a dye fr

Most likely yes. Flashlight won't do it. You need a blacklight

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