More runaround on the 4xe transmission

[ShadowsPapa]

Most likely yes. Flashlight won't do it. You need a blacklight

These days there are black light flashlights - LEDs do the work. They can be made to put out almost any wavelength.

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[chorky]

These days there are black light flashlights - LEDs do the work. They can be made to put out almost any wavelength.

Ooo I see what you mean. yeah they should work. I think the wavelength is sufficient - but it should be a decent quality one. I wouldn't trust a 10 dollar amazon option

 

[chorky]

These days there are black light flashlights - LEDs do the work. They can be made to put out almost any wavelength.

Something like this should work
https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-...3&sprefix=streamlight+uf+light,aps,230&sr=8-5

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Something like this should work
https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-66149-Stylus-Rechargeable-Holster/dp/B0188YF80G/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1UGI7B321B505&keywords=streamlight+uv+light&qid=1699844223&sprefix=streamlight+uf+light,aps,230&sr=8-5

Yeah, I already have a smaller, cheaper one. Couldn't see the need for a really fancy expensive rechargeable light when I'd use it maybe a couple of times a year, then pull batteries back out.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

FINALLY - I got a call middle of Monday afternoon from Jeep customer service via my "complaints" to JeepCares. They had all of the documentation and history and were actually reaching out to the dealership via phone calls and had gotten in contact with one of the service advisors to pass things along..

Later, about 6:30 yesterday evening, got an email from the service manager at the dealership and he said:
"I am waiting for direction from STAR, I also have our area field technician involved."

This morning he confirmed he was waiting for more from STAR on it.
I told him good - let Jeep pull THEIR HAIR OUT. They have engineers, they have national data, they can see how many have had problems, what solutions have been and so on. Sometimes, you just have to know when to let someone else handle it. (and drag 'em kicking and screaming into a room and tell them to talk to each other!)

It's really Jeep's issue to fix - the dealership can and should only do what Jeep says when it's a warranty thing (well, to some extent anyway - give or take some)
Once the dealership has taken it to the point of "we've replaced A twice and B once and it's still a problem" then Jeep needs to step in.
This isn't a thing that's broken or worn out, which would be easily diagnosed for the most part - this is a problem related to brand new parts not playing well together.
And it's a warranty thing. Let Jeep own it.
Now Jeep is talking to the dealership and they have STAR and the field technician involved.
I told the SM that now that we're at this point - I don't care what it takes or how long- I see progress and people talking to each other to figure it out, so I'm fine on this end. If it takes a month, it takes a month. We won't be thrilled or happy about that at all - but my priority is "fix it". We'll figure the rest out, we have that ability at this point.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Maybe I can use this thread to keep my notes about this adventure with Jeep.........
Recap -
Monday November 6th I contacted JeepCares stating the Jeep was going in for the transmission leak on Tuesday the 7th.
They gave me a case number and said a case manager would contact me
Jeep went in early Tuesday, November 7th, 2023, for a WAVE oil change, tire rotation and 3rd look at the transmission leak.
About 10-11am, my wife got a call stating it was finished, come pick it up.
She said that they told her it was residual from the leak it was in for August 24th. All they did was clean it off and say they didn't see any leak.
Skipping past where the service manager and i both looked at it on the lift out there, I ended up picking it up and bringing it home later Tuesday the 7th. It was dripping fluid before I could slide cardboard under it.
They sent a shuttle driver out with a loaner and picked up our Wrangler about 1pm on Wednesday, November 8th.
Monday, the 13th I FINALLY got a call from Jeep customer service.
This is now Friday, November 17th, my wife's birthday and she's unhappy without her purple Jeep.
Last contact from JeepCares or Jeep customer service was on Monday the 13th when they said they'd be in contact with me Wednesday to keep in touch.
Last contact from the dealership was Tuesday, mid-day, when they said they were sending another email to STAR to try to get them awake.
Not a word from anyone at all since those times and dates
No status from dealer, no status from JeepCares, nothing from STAR. I have no idea if they are thinking about it, figuring out a fix, replacing any parts, or what.
Wednesday, November 8th, to Friday, November 17th.
9 days, no word, no idea what's going on.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Since I had not heard anything from JeepCares/customer support since the 13th (even though told I'd get a checking in call on the 15th) and I'd not heard from the dealer shop since Tuesday, 14th mid-day, saying they had sent email to STAR to get them awake, I sent a nice email saying I was just checking in. I said I realized it was Monday, usually hectic, but was wondering if they had heard anything at all from Jeep customer service on my case number, or if they'd made contact with STAR, etc.
Got a call about 20 minutes later from the service manager apologizing for not calling me sooner (I told him, hey, I know what Mondays in a shop can be like) - he was in on Saturday (not normal hours for him) to catch up on some things and was chatting with my sales guy, Scott and decided he needed to call me then to let me know what was going on - and things got busy.
He said that after working with STAR and the regional technical person, they all decided and agreed that the next step is transmission replacement He said "you know that, I know that, now they are agreeing and saying yes that's the next step". And Jeep is "releasing a transmission for warranty on your Jeep".
He doesn't yet know timing, where it's coming from, how long it will take and such but hopes to find out tomorrow and let me know.
He said in the mean time since it was leaking fluid and was a potential hazard should it get onto the exhaust, not to mention the fluid on the garage floor, we should keep the loaner if that was ok with us. We were on speaker, my wife heard that and her head was nodding a very big YES.
He said that since it's gotten to this point and Jeep would be paying for the loaner, keep it and maybe it would prompt them to keep things moving to cut their expenses on keeping us in a loaner.
So I can report "movement". How fast - don't know. But it's movement and now that Jeep STAR and the regional technical rep agreed, it's a settled thing, no further attempts to just fix this one as far as the leak.

 

[chorky]

Many years ago when I was a tech at Ford we had a handful of vehicles requiring regional engineers to come out and try to fix various problems. In every one of those cases, to my memory, the end result was a shotgun approach. Mostly because the problems were just so complex nobody really knew what was going wrong. Usually this would be after several weeks of trying to replace every potnetial interacting component. On one hand I get that engineers wanted to figure out what was actually going wrong in order to resolve other similar problems. But at the same time you gotta think, at what cost is this and is it worth it. Back then, maybe it was, when transmissions were serviceable under a specialized tech, or drivability concerns, etc. but these days it really seems much more straight forward and cost savings to just replace an engine or trans than try to figure it out. The system anymore is just designed to be a big parts replacement system, not so much actual mechanics of tears past. I sure hope they get you up and going soon. Nothing more frustrating than when area techs dont even know what to do and corporate is withholding the easy button. Im surprised in this modern day there isnt a better understanding of how much money all this time spent has cost.

 

[Hootbro]

Many years ago when I was a tech at Ford we had a handful of vehicles requiring regional engineers to come out and try to fix various problems. In every one of those cases, to my memory, the end result was a shotgun approach. Mostly because the problems were just so complex nobody really knew what was going wrong. Usually this would be after several weeks of trying to replace every potnetial interacting component. On one hand I get that engineers wanted to figure out what was actually going wrong in order to resolve other similar problems. But at the same time you gotta think, at what cost is this and is it worth it. Back then, maybe it was, when transmissions were serviceable under a specialized tech, or drivability concerns, etc. but these days it really seems much more straight forward and cost savings to just replace an engine or trans than try to figure it out. The system anymore is just designed to be a big parts replacement system, not so much actual mechanics of tears past. I sure hope they get you up and going soon. Nothing more frustrating than when area techs dont even know what to do and corporate is withholding the easy button. Im surprised in this modern day there isnt a better understanding of how much money all this time spent has cost.

That mirrors a lot I deal with in Aviation working in Engineering. There is some shotgunning but there comes a point were it is more cost advantageous to replace the whole major assembly and let the supplier or repair facility figure out the problem and what sub-assembly part is the cause. I deal with it a lot on air conditioning packs.

 

[Swordfish44]

To overfill such a thing, it would take quarts beyond the norm. And the foaming fluid would cause horrible shifting issues. There's really no good way that could happen.
This would also mean it was overfilled at the factory and overfilled twice after that? No way.

I would not put anything past jeep service centers. My gut tells me the service techs at these dealers dont know jack! Most of them look like they are still in high school.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I would not put anything past jeep service centers. My gut tells me the service techs at these dealers dont know jack! Most of them look like they are still in high school.

Thankfully these do not have a dipstick tube where you could literally fill them to the point of running out a vent. there's no real way of getting that much in them - they can be "too full" but it would be only because they did it with a cold transmission and not up to operating temperature (Hootbro and Maximus Gladius know the procedure - it's really specific as far as range of temperature, and you'd have a mess if you tried to stuff more into the side of the transmission)

Lack of high school shop classes, colleges cutting coursed for lack of interest, and few bother going to any sort of training at all. Maybe the service manager would have really hired me had I said "let's talk" - I dunno, but I'd have been one of the oldest ones there if so. But then, I could have taken in and worked on any Jeep from years ago while the others scratched their heads LOL
I know that any time I was offered a tour, field trip, or any added training, I jumped all over it. If the boss said "GM has a class in Omaha next week for their advanced charging systems", I was all over it. When Sun (maker of the then Sun scope) offered classes on electronic fuel systems, I was right there, night after night for the whole series - on my own dime and time. Today - it just seems different.

At least now I know - the SM, their regional technical rep, and STAR have agreed - release a transmission. (whatever that means) My wife even wondered if that meant they had them in lockup or something.

 

[Swordfish44]

Thankfully these do not have a dipstick tube where you could literally fill them to the point of running out a vent. there's no real way of getting that much in them - they can be "too full" but it would be only because they did it with a cold transmission and not up to operating temperature (Hootbro and Maximus Gladius know the procedure - it's really specific as far as range of temperature, and you'd have a mess if you tried to stuff more into the side of the transmission)

Lack of high school shop classes, colleges cutting coursed for lack of interest, and few bother going to any sort of training at all. Maybe the service manager would have really hired me had I said "let's talk" - I dunno, but I'd have been one of the oldest ones there if so. But then, I could have taken in and worked on any Jeep from years ago while the others scratched their heads LOL
I know that any time I was offered a tour, field trip, or any added training, I jumped all over it. If the boss said "GM has a class in Omaha next week for their advanced charging systems", I was all over it. When Sun (maker of the then Sun scope) offered classes on electronic fuel systems, I was right there, night after night for the whole series - on my own dime and time. Today - it just seems different.

At least now I know - the SM, their regional technical rep, and STAR have agreed - release a transmission. (whatever that means) My wife even wondered if that meant they had them in lockup or something.

Yeah i agree. Its good that everyone is on the same page now and looks like you will get your fix afterall. If you do ever decide to work at a jeep service center please let me know so i can coordinate with you for my service appts.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Got word today that the transmission has shipped and should arrive Monday. From there - it's however long it takes them to do the work. Since it's a major component of a 4xe, I expect it to take some time. it's not like the setup in our JTs

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Wednesday, November 29th, I contacted "Jeep Customer Support" AKA "JeepCares" and asked for some sort of status - did parts arrive, next step, whatever - where are we sort of a thing.
I made it clear I was just curious to know if the parts arrived or not.
A couple of hours later I got an email from Jeep stating they had left message with the dealership to call me. About the time I saw the email, I got a call from the service advisor on the case who said it was in the shop and they were working on the transmission replacement.
Fine, that's all I needed to know.
JC/JCS has been all but worthless in all of this. They told me two different times I'd be getting calls from them with progress, more information,, whatever, and zip - no calls, no emails, no nothing.

Yesterday, Monday Dec 4th, we got a call that the Jeep was done and ready to be picked up.
We went to get it and not a word from anyone on anything about the hassle. Went to the cashier, got the paperwork, key FOB and that was that.
I will check it again this week, but after driving it back and taking it to some stores for shopping and groceries, I looked under it and it was clean and dry. (and it's also a reman, not new - so when people say "I got a new transmission" you can most likely safely say "no, you did not", especially if the paperwork part number starts with a RL and not a 68
RL is a remanufactured transmission.
Not a fan of remanufactured crap at all. Last shop I worked in (not a dealership) decided we would not install remanufactured anything in a car (a couple of engines were the exceptions) but we'd do all of the work ourselves. And we did (mostly me as I did all of the transmission work, most of the differentials, and almost all electric work in that shop)

So we'll see........
I have one major question, though:
The transmission leak on the 4xe WL and JL is a well-known problem. It appears as a pan gasket leak and makes itself known on the rear edge of the pan, pan bolts, and so on.
Most dealers try the pan gasket, and when that fails (it will) they change the pan and gasket, and what that fails (it almost always does) then you have to argue with them to get a STAR case going, etc.
some dealers go right to that, my dealer hesitated and it was only when I went to the sales guy we worked with and said "Scott, we need to talk" and showed him the wet cardboard that had been under the Jeep - and reminded him we've bought 4 Jeeps through him since 2018, it was then that things started to move along and I got to talk to the service manager.
Anyway, sorry, I digress again, damn that ADHD - my question - when we get a reman transmission isn't there a good chance it's at least partially one taken from another that leaked?
And since the leak is a suspected case issue, and they use the cases again on reman transmissions, how the heck can you take in 100 transmissions from JL and WL 4xe's that have the weird unresolved leak and rebuild them, and send them out and say that aren't going to leak again since so far, Jeep has not yet figured this leak out?
If it's indeed the case, as Jeep has said, a suspected porous case issue, and these go back to be remanufactured - won't we all end up with leaking reman transmissions?

The part that really ticked me off was when on the third visit they had the nuts to tell me that the fluid dripping on the cardboard on the garage floor under our JLU was residual from the leak before - 2.5 months, over 1,000 miles, rain and car washes later and the fluid still dripping was residual? Give me a break!
They know I'm a former tech myself - non-dealership by choice, but know active leaks from residual fluid. Don't even go there.

 

[Dave-in-RI]

I thought for SURE they were going to add the RTV sealant without telling you and say “we found a burr and filed it down” or similar, and it would be up to you to prove. Now the questions are how long the warranty is on your refurb transmission… and how the dealer service logs have been imprinted on your Carfax to the point it reduced your sellable value (ie, it’ll look like a lemon).

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