New To Towing...Looking For Insight

[Buck1ze]

I have a JT Rubicon with a 2 inch Mopar lift and 35” tires. Obviously have the tow option. I ordered the Redarc Tow-Pro Elite brake controller, but have not installed it yet.

I am looking at buying a Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE travel trailer. 25’ 11”, hitch weight 497 lbs., gross weight 6995 lbs.

Is this advisable or should I look at something smaller? Also, should I consider going back to the factory wheels and tires while towing?

Thanks for any advice you may offer!

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[Jay Gatsby]

IMO you have limited your towing ability somewhat with the lift/tires. So max tow is no longer 7k. Probably closer to 6k. The dry weight on the XLS 22RBE is prob 5k. So that leaves 1k for personal belongs, water, food, etc. You are at your max. If it were me, I'd look for something lighter. I also have 35" tires and tow trailers and such.

Lots of good info here including a RV Tow Check app. https://fifthwheelst.com/unsafe-eighty-percent-towing-rule.html. Click on the Tow Rating tab too.

You are prob gonna get lots of different opinions on this. Do your own research.

 

[SwampNut]

I've never been able to find any real info on what a lift and tire size change do to towing capacity. I suspect nobody really wants to tell you, because there are too many variables and liabilities. I kind of wonder if Grand Design themselves might give an opinion if you call them.

You will probably be in the range of low to mid 6k range when the trailer is full of fluids and your normal gear. You're really close to the limit, and you will have a bad time if you're towing around a lot of hills. My trailer is just under 3500 fully loaded, and is extra narrow with a slideout. It tows very nicely, even across mountain passes. Don't forget that frontal area is an actual rating that's in the manual, because on the highway the air resistance is just as critical as the weight. Mine has low frontal areas and is rounded on both ends to significantly reduce drag.

Since you are new to towing, I would caution you to lean towards towing something lighter. That's an awesome trailer, and I see why you want it. Would you be happy in something 1-2k lighter? What areas will you be towing in? Hills and mountains, flat? How far, how long? Highway speeds, or back road speeds?

Here is my trailer with my previous JKUR, which did not tow it well at all.

 

[SwampNut]

Oh, and FOR SURE (!!!!) get a weight distribution hitch! You will absolutely hate it without one. I'm not sure if I said enough (!!!!).

 

[Centexan]

I have a JT Rubicon with a 2 inch Mopar lift and 35” tires. Obviously have the tow option. I ordered the Redarc Tow-Pro Elite brake controller, but have not installed it yet.

I am looking at buying a Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE travel trailer. 25’ 11”, hitch weight 497 lbs., gross weight 6995 lbs.

Is this advisable or should I look at something smaller? Also, should I consider going back to the factory wheels and tires while towing?

Thanks for any advice you may offer!

Add to that your probably going to hit your cargo capacity pretty quickly. IIRC, the Rubicon has 1100# cargo capacity. The DRY hitch weight of the trailer is 497. For your estimation, you should use 10 to 15% of your loaded weight. If you load up to GVWR, your hitch weight would be 699 to 1050. At 10%, that only leaves you 400# for fuel, people, and any other stuff you put in the truck. At the high end, you are looking at 50# for all that stuff.

With this trailer you are going to be pushing your limits even if you are very carefully loaded.

 

[SwampNut]

Add to that your probably going to hit your cargo capacity pretty quickly. IIRC, the Rubicon has 1100# cargo capacity. The DRY hitch weight of the trailer is 497. For your estimation, you should use 10 to 15% of your loaded weight. If you load up to GVWR, your hitch weight would be 699 to 1050. At 10%, that only leaves you 400# for fuel, people, and any other stuff you put in the truck. At the high end, you are looking at 50# for all that stuff.

With this trailer you are going to be pushing your limits even if you are very carefully loaded.

I agree with all this, it's sketchy at best. Weight distribution removes some of that tongue weight, but not all of it.

 

[Buck1ze]

I've never been able to find any real info on what a lift and tire size change do to towing capacity. I suspect nobody really wants to tell you, because there are too many variables and liabilities. I kind of wonder if Grand Design themselves might give an opinion if you call them.

You will probably be in the range of low to mid 6k range when the trailer is full of fluids and your normal gear. You're really close to the limit, and you will have a bad time if you're towing around a lot of hills. My trailer is just under 3500 fully loaded, and is extra narrow with a slideout. It tows very nicely, even across mountain passes. Don't forget that frontal area is an actual rating that's in the manual, because on the highway the air resistance is just as critical as the weight. Mine has low frontal areas and is rounded on both ends to significantly reduce drag.

Since you are new to towing, I would caution you to lean towards towing something lighter. That's an awesome trailer, and I see why you want it. Would you be happy in something 1-2k lighter? What areas will you be towing in? Hills and mountains, flat? How far, how long? Highway speeds, or back road speeds?

Here is my trailer with my previous JKUR, which did not tow it well at all.

Love your old JKUR. Here’s my old trade ...

My second choice would be the XLS 17MKE. It is four feet shorter, has a gvwr of 5995, and a hitch weight of 480 lbs. The cargo rating on the door jam of my JTR says 1199 lbs. For the most part, my wife and I will be towing between here (PA) and Florida.

I will definitely look into a weight distribution hitch. Thanks for the advice.

The only advantage that I can think of by going back to my factory wheels and tires is the slight change in the final gear ratio. I really haven’t noticed a large loss in torque with the 35’s, but then again, I’m not towing anything either!

 

[JT-S-Maxi-IND]

Here is a good towing resource / guide.

https://www.curtmfg.com/understanding-towing

 

[wannajeep]

By going with larger tires and a lift you've probably lowered your max safe tow rating (by how much is hard to say).

In my opinion, not saying it can't be done but 7,000 lb is a tall order for the 3.6 Pentastar. Looks like that trailer is 5,125 lb unloaded. It's probably doable but keep in mind if I understand correctly as you load the JT with passengers and gear, you'll be reducing your towing capacity.

Brake controller is definitely a good idea, and a weight distributing hitch for sure (and size it for the application; there are different ratings - your trailer dealer should be able to tell you what rating you'll need).

Also consider how you'll be using the camper: Maybe this combo could work for a few local trips a year, but for more frequent use or longer range trips you could consider a different tow vehicle or lighter trailer.

Check out resources on GVWR and GTWR and take some time to understand what these ratings mean and how different loads affect them.

 

[SwampNut]

The smaller trailer would tow better for sure. I don't think it would be a safety issue at all to tow that one, assuming a proper WD hitch and decent brake controller. The WD hitch is sized to the approximate tongue weight. Mine is 600# and the trailer's actual tongue weight is around 400-430. There is adjustment you will make for your specific size. Never exceed the WD system's rated weight, and try not to be under it by a huge amount.

That said, you will cross lots of mountains and the power may be a factor. I can tell you that the 8-speed made such a ridiculous difference compared to towing with the JK, which had the same motor. I don't have a huge worry about it at all though, I think you'll be alright if set up as best you can.

 

[Centexan]

Love your old JKUR. Here’s my old trade ...

My second choice would be the XLS 17MKE. It is four feet shorter, has a gvwr of 5995, and a hitch weight of 480 lbs. The cargo rating on the door jam of my JTR says 1199 lbs. For the most part, my wife and I will be towing between here (PA) and Florida.

I will definitely look into a weight distribution hitch. Thanks for the advice.

The only advantage that I can think of by going back to my factory wheels and tires is the slight change in the final gear ratio. I really haven’t noticed a large loss in torque with the 35’s, but then again, I’m not towing anything either!

That will put you more within your limits. You are still going to be close on cargo weight.

WD hitch will help a bunch. Adds 75# to cargo weight, but distributes 25% to 30% of the hitch weigh to the trailer axle(s).

So lets look at this scenario:
GVWR is 5995, so if your trailer is loaded, your static hitch weight should be 599 to 899. Anything below 10% and you are going to have sway issues even with a WD hitch. so lets say you are the max-899. Now lets say you remove 30% of tongue weight with WD. puts you at 630.
630 for trailer tongue
75 hitch weight
300 people (you and your wife)
132 fuel

1137 in total cargo weight. You would be below the limit, but not by a lot. Your bigger tires also affect cargo weight in that the reduce it by their weight difference vs stock. And any careful loading you do will help: This includes being very mindful of loading what you need vs what you don't, and distributing your cargo in such a way as to keep your tongue weight closer to 10% rather than 15%

Would your dealer allow you to test tow? It would require them to set up a WD Hitch, but it would certainly give you an idea if what your are looking at is reasonable or not. Good luck and stay safe!

 

[Centexan]

I also wanted to let you know that my parents have a Grand Design. They have an older (pre-merge) 2950 RL. They love it, and we have used it several times as well. I have heard GD has had QC issues since the merge, but that is an RV industry problem.

 

[LiftedrubiconJT]

I've never been able to find any real info on what a lift and tire size change do to towing capacity. I suspect nobody really wants to tell you, because there are too many variables and liabilities. I kind of wonder if Grand Design themselves might give an opinion if you call them.

You will probably be in the range of low to mid 6k range when the trailer is full of fluids and your normal gear. You're really close to the limit, and you will have a bad time if you're towing around a lot of hills. My trailer is just under 3500 fully loaded, and is extra narrow with a slideout. It tows very nicely, even across mountain passes. Don't forget that frontal area is an actual rating that's in the manual, because on the highway the air resistance is just as critical as the weight. Mine has low frontal areas and is rounded on both ends to significantly reduce drag.

Since you are new to towing, I would caution you to lean towards towing something lighter. That's an awesome trailer, and I see why you want it. Would you be happy in something 1-2k lighter? What areas will you be towing in? Hills and mountains, flat? How far, how long? Highway speeds, or back road speeds?

Here is my trailer with my previous JKUR, which did not tow it well at all.

Any info on this rv? I’m currently looking for one to pull behind my rubicon gladiator and I see you said it was 3500 lbs which is where I would like to stay

 

[SwampNut]

It's a 2018 Keystone Passport 170RK or 170RKRV (same thing). It's also sold under the R-Pod name, identical except for an upgraded fridge and stove, but much more expensive. It's 3k dry, around 3500 calculated full weight, possibly a little more with a heavy load. There's a queen bed up front and the dining converts to a smaller bed. Wet head and decent sized kitchen.

The weight distribution is absolutely necessary for a Wrangler, and really, on the JT you should have it too. The Gladiator pulls it SO SO well. Just awesome. My first trip with the JT and this trailer was from Phoenix to a shooting area North of Barstow CA. Lots of mountains, lots of road time. The pull was fantastic, and the adaptive cruise did such a perfect job it was so relaxing to drive for hours.

 

[gotswap]

You are at the limits with just the trailer, add in people and cargo and you are over. NO

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