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No Key - its it will still drive

Jt-wrx

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Better than carrying around that huge Key Fob. I'll take the risk
I'm with you! It's a solution, just not nearly as good as the original one we had, that we're trying to get back to. We've gone the wrong direction on this one.

A smart phone fits in a pocket better than this fob and a few keys, and a smart phone is a bloody computer! What is this fob again? Can it even take a selfie? Can it even divide my gallons into miles? How bout send an email? Or make a call? So confused... ;)
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Jt-wrx

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Vehicles that had a physical security key (all of them for the last 20 years?) still had an RFID chip that was detected through an antenna around the lock cylinder. And when you turn the key in the lock cylinder, it is moving a rod that activates an electrical ignition switch. Now you just directly push the electrical switch and eliminate the mechanical bits in between. The problem it solves is the mechanical failure of the lock cylinder, which is a problem that's caused some accidents.

It's the proximity feature (not RFID) that seems to be causing the issues and I think the proximity feature is a big improvement.
Alright lets lay it out in more detail then.

Operator of vehicle, direct physical link to ignition. 100% care and control. To start it and drive it you need to have the care and control of the key and attach it near the operators actual controls. Brilliant, simple, efficient, and if not compact and handy. Want to turn the vehicle off, you take that physical link and remove it, leaving you still 100% in care and control of the vehicle because it's now in your hands.

Now, we have no physical link. 5 people can get in the car and as long as one of em has the thin air attachement gizmo then doesn't matter who sits in the drivers seat, thing will start and go. And, that thin air link can leave the vehicle at any point while the one driving can carry on all over...until he or she hits a stop button, or stalls it. At this point whoever has the damn fob has 100% care and control of that two ton death machine.

Direct physical link in in the cockpit area, it starts with the operator, ends with the operator, the next operator...same thing. You don't start or stop without it and only the operator can do that. How it should be even from a risk and liability stand point alone! Never mind an inconvenience potential standpoint or safety standpoint for all those nearly carbon monoxide poisoning themselves in their garages.

On top of this absurdity...you have an entire computer sliding into your pocket now easier than this fob and the fob does one thing only? That's absurdity squared. You can make computer equal a smart phone but your initial point of care and control of a motor vehicle went from a half oz of spare change size to a pound of butter. This is about as ass backwards as you can get imo. Jeep/fca/anyone embracing this tech should be walloped with a ball of their week ole shite.;) Just sayin...
 

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I'm with you! It's a solution, just not nearly as good as the original one we had, that we're trying to get back to. We've gone the wrong direction on this one.

A smart phone fits in a pocket better than this fob and a few keys, and a smart phone is a bloody computer! What is this fob again? Can it even take a selfie? Can it even divide my gallons into miles? How bout send an email? Or make a call? So confused... ;)
I agree, I don't need a push button feature but I figure if there going to go to that then why not just add a finger print scanner to the push button, that way you can set it and then not have to worry about carrying around a freakin brick in your pocket, it's pretty dang annoying for a guy. A woman can just stick it on her pocket book or something, the key Fob design thing wasn't thought out to well at all.
 

Jt-wrx

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Yup, this is such an unwinnable argument for the button lovers, on risk/liability alone. The only argument for them is 'it's handy i don't have to fumble around for my keys'.

Or should i say, 'it's so handy that i don't have to really have 100% care and control over my two ton death machine at ALL times' ;)
 

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Alright lets lay it out in more detail then.

Operator of vehicle, direct physical link to ignition. 100% care and control. To start it and drive it you need to have the care and control of the key and attach it near the operators actual controls. Brilliant, simple, efficient, and if not compact and handy. Want to turn the vehicle off, you take that physical link and remove it, leaving you still 100% in care and control of the vehicle because it's now in your hands.

Now, we have no physical link. 5 people can get in the car and as long as one of em has the thin air attachement gizmo then doesn't matter who sits in the drivers seat, thing will start and go. And, that thin air link can leave the vehicle at any point while the one driving can carry on all over...until he or she hits a stop button, or stalls it. At this point whoever has the damn fob has 100% care and control of that two ton death machine.

Direct physical link in in the cockpit area, it starts with the operator, ends with the operator, the next operator...same thing. You don't start or stop without it and only the operator can do that. How it should be even from a risk and liability stand point alone! Never mind an inconvenience potential standpoint or safety standpoint for all those nearly carbon monoxide poisoning themselves in their garages.

On top of this absurdity...you have an entire computer sliding into your pocket now easier than this fob and the fob does one thing only? That's absurdity squared. You can make computer equal a smart phone but your initial point of care and control of a motor vehicle went from a half oz of spare change size to a pound of butter. This is about as ass backwards as you can get imo. Jeep/fca/anyone embracing this tech should be walloped with a ball of their week ole shite.;) Just sayin...
The point of your rants is absurd. The state of mind and capability of the operator determines control over the vehicle, not a physical link to the machine being operated. If you are not capable of handling the vehicle, your ass should not be in the driver's seat. Whether the vehicle uses a key, a FOB, a toggle switch, or a screwdriver to get it going doesn't make the operator any more or less in control of it. If you don't like the FOB, just say so and stick to that. Trying to link control of the vehicle to a physical key to justify your hatred of the FOB is embarrassing. I get it, the FOBs are an annoyance, but they are not going away, no matter how many times you rant about it. I don't see anybody on the flight line handing out sets of keys to the pilots, and they don't seem to have any problem with control over their multi-ton death machines.
 

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Yup, this is such an unwinnable argument for the button lovers, on risk/liability alone. The only argument for them is 'it's handy i don't have to fumble around for my keys'.

Or should i say, 'it's so handy that i don't have to really have 100% care and control over my two ton death machine at ALL times' ;)
The push button start only eliminates the required “physical key” you speak of in relation to starting the vehicle. The use of a fob was an advancement in security not laziness. It just offers the possibility of convenience as a side effect of the technology. The physical keys of the past having 6 nods with a possible 10 positions for each nod created 1,000,000 possible combinations for each key which is all well and good when there aren’t that many cars produced but FCA made over 2,200,000 cars in the USA last year alone. Digital keys bring a digital combination with no actual limit to the number of possibilities. It’s a security thing. You just have to carry that little circuit board around instead of that “oz of metal” key. Also, if you don’t have the “convenience” of proximity entry, you still have to pull out the fob and use the remote unlock button or physical key to unlock the door so it’s no more convenient than fumbling for a key. It’s a security advancement!
Which in a way is an advancement towards your claim to have “100% care and control”. I can’t borrow your car and go by any Walmart and make an extra key while I have yours in my hand and come back and “borrow” your car any day I want without you knowing. That would NOT be 100% control because now I can make any number of copies of your “physical key” where now everybody in the neighborhood can borrow your car without your knowledge or approval. So how do you have 100% care and control of your vehicle in that scenario? You don’t. Using the little circuit board for security, there are only two made for each vehicle. If you want more, you have to make an expensive purchase of another fob and have it programmed for the vehicle and have the vehicle programmed to accept it which the dealer will not do for me because the vehicle is registered to you not me so I can’t easily borrow your vehicle and make a copy of your “key/fob” without your authorization.
The implementation of the convenience part varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as to whether the Vehicle will let you drive without the fob after it’s started or not and that’s the opinion part that is debated as to which way is better.
There are other manufacturers trying new advancements including the implementation of using the rfid in smart phones allowing me to use my phone as the fob and allowing me to text you the key to my car that I can go back and remove from the computer in the car later after your done borrowing it but even that has a risk of not having the control you claim to cherish. Because I’m giving you digital access, if I forget to eliminate that access or my wife texts you access and I don’t know about it you have taken that control of the vehicle without my knowing it.

Your rants and repeated statements that a physical metal key are what give you care and control of your vehicle are absurd!
“It’s better to remain quite and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt”
 

Jt-wrx

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The point of your rants is absurd. The state of mind and capability of the operator determines control over the vehicle, not a physical link to the machine being operated. If you are not capable of handling the vehicle, your ass should not be in the driver's seat. Whether the vehicle uses a key, a FOB, a toggle switch, or a screwdriver to get it going doesn't make the operator any more or less in control of it. If you don't like the FOB, just say so and stick to that. Trying to link control of the vehicle to a physical key to justify your hatred of the FOB is embarrassing. I get it, the FOBs are an annoyance, but they are not going away, no matter how many times you rant about it. I don't see anybody on the flight line handing out sets of keys to the pilots, and they don't seem to have any problem with control over their multi-ton death machines.
i knew i'd eventually hook some button lovers ;)

them pilots have locked doors ensuring they are the only ones with care and control lol, pretty sure nobody will walk off with the c-train or city bus fobs either, i have a hard time believing all those modes of transportation would allow the start/stop of them be a radio frequency attached by thin air and some sort of fob you need to remember to keep in your pocket lol
 
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Jt-wrx

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The push button start only eliminates the required “physical key” you speak of in relation to starting the vehicle. The use of a fob was an advancement in security not laziness. It just offers the possibility of convenience as a side effect of the technology. The physical keys of the past having 6 nods with a possible 10 positions for each nod created 1,000,000 possible combinations for each key which is all well and good when there aren’t that many cars produced but FCA made over 2,200,000 cars in the USA last year alone. Digital keys bring a digital combination with no actual limit to the number of possibilities. It’s a security thing. You just have to carry that little circuit board around instead of that “oz of metal” key. Also, if you don’t have the “convenience” of proximity entry, you still have to pull out the fob and use the remote unlock button or physical key to unlock the door so it’s no more convenient than fumbling for a key. It’s a security advancement!
Which in a way is an advancement towards your claim to have “100% care and control”. I can’t borrow your car and go by any Walmart and make an extra key while I have yours in my hand and come back and “borrow” your car any day I want without you knowing. That would NOT be 100% control because now I can make any number of copies of your “physical key” where now everybody in the neighborhood can borrow your car without your knowledge or approval. So how do you have 100% care and control of your vehicle in that scenario? You don’t. Using the little circuit board for security, there are only two made for each vehicle. If you want more, you have to make an expensive purchase of another fob and have it programmed for the vehicle and have the vehicle programmed to accept it which the dealer will not do for me because the vehicle is registered to you not me so I can’t easily borrow your vehicle and make a copy of your “key/fob” without your authorization.
The implementation of the convenience part varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as to whether the Vehicle will let you drive without the fob after it’s started or not and that’s the opinion part that is debated as to which way is better.
There are other manufacturers trying new advancements including the implementation of using the rfid in smart phones allowing me to use my phone as the fob and allowing me to text you the key to my car that I can go back and remove from the computer in the car later after your done borrowing it but even that has a risk of not having the control you claim to cherish. Because I’m giving you digital access, if I forget to eliminate that access or my wife texts you access and I don’t know about it you have taken that control of the vehicle without my knowing it.

Your rants and repeated statements that a physical metal key are what give you care and control of your vehicle are absurd!
“It’s better to remain quite and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt”
Oh boy, you dun stepped in it... ;)

Security is the argument now? I see, we don't like the truth, so we will make up whatever sounds good so we sound smaht...instead of lazy button pushers. Anyhow, didn't someone in the other thread just talk about some sort of electrical disturbance at a tow yard, only vehicles would start and run had physical keys? I digress, who gives a shit, just one more weird ass reason, in many more to come, on why we shouldn't have fixed a problem that didn't exist in the first place lol. The crooks can rfid hack your ass just as well as going to get a key cut.

Your argument on the cut key doesn't seem to wash either. It's the holder of a valid key, can only get in and operate and turn it off. 100 care and control. When i get back home and need to use it, same thing, i got the 100. So when mr crook with copied key takes it for some midday fun, they got 100 care and control. You don't leave it behind by accident then get caught half way somewhere with no way back. That's not 100 care and control, when the fob still hanging on the hook in the garage.

So what was that last thing you said again?:clap:
 

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Oh boy, you dun stepped in it... ;)

Security is the argument now? I see, we don't like the truth, so we will make up whatever sounds good so we sound smaht...instead of lazy button pushers. Anyhow, didn't someone in the other thread just talk about some sort of electrical disturbance at a tow yard, only vehicles would start and run had physical keys? I digress, who gives a shit, just one more weird ass reason, in many more to come, on why we shouldn't have fixed a problem that didn't exist in the first place lol. The crooks can rfid hack your ass just as well as going to get a key cut.

Your argument on the cut key doesn't seem to wash either. It's the holder of a valid key, can only get in and operate and turn it off. 100 care and control. When i get back home and need to use it, same thing, i got the 100. So when mr crook with copied key takes it for some midday fun, they got 100 care and control. You don't leave it behind by accident then get caught half way somewhere with no way back. That's not 100 care and control, when the fob still hanging on the hook in the garage.

So what was that last thing you said again?:clap:
Security IS the reason for digital keys. A professional thief can take your shit no matter how much security you think you have whether you have a metal key or digital one. The digital one just stops the common person from having easy access and offer a higher level of security than the old style keys.
You say having a “valid key” gives you or whoever 100% control so what difference does it make if the key is a metal or digital one? You’re contradicting yourself.
As far as “leave it behind by accident then get caught half way somewhere with no way back” .... that’s the debate about implementation of the digital key! Is it better to have the car stay running without the fob inside so I can get home safely if the fob/digital key dies while I’m driving or is it better to have it like my wife’s car where she can start the car with the fob inside but if she walks away with the fob and I try to drive it without that digital key it shuts off the second I put it in drive. Hers would strand you in the middle of nowhere the second the fob dies (even if your driving down the interstate) but offers higher security in that no one can drive it without the “valid key” in the vehicle. Mine won’t necessarily strand me because it allows me to drive back to where I need to go to get a valid key albeit home or a dealer. If I start the car and run back in the house to grab something, when I leave the key behind and put the car in drive it WILL let me drive off without but will put a notice of the dash screen saying the fob isn’t there.
The old style metal keys actually make it better for a thief in that if you start your car to let it warm up and they jump in the drivers seat they can take your car wherever they want stopping and starting as much as they want because you GAVE them the keys. With a digital key, my wife can start her car and walk away, you can’t drive it without that physical key fob. Mine would let you drive away but the second you shut it off or stall it, you’re done.
Your supposed phobia of technology and lack of common sense makes me wonder if you’re stuck in the past and don’t understand technology, or you’re young and dumb or just a troll trying to stir up trouble on a forum for fun....either way, I’m done with your stupidity.
Ignore button solves having to listen to you any further.
 

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i still wanna know why the damn key is so freakin' huge, i have manual locks and windows and it has no buttons only a key and the fob. talked to a locksmith about finding a smaller option he said no. also looked on quadratec who has a replacement but still big? am i that old that i can't just want a key to put in the ingnition?

#simpleman
 

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Jt-wrx

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Security IS the reason for digital keys. A professional thief can take your shit no matter how much security you think you have whether you have a metal key or digital one. The digital one just stops the common person from having easy access and offer a higher level of security than the old style keys.
You say having a “valid key” gives you or whoever 100% control so what difference does it make if the key is a metal or digital one? You’re contradicting yourself.
As far as “leave it behind by accident then get caught half way somewhere with no way back” .... that’s the debate about implementation of the digital key! Is it better to have the car stay running without the fob inside so I can get home safely if the fob/digital key dies while I’m driving or is it better to have it like my wife’s car where she can start the car with the fob inside but if she walks away with the fob and I try to drive it without that digital key it shuts off the second I put it in drive. Hers would strand you in the middle of nowhere the second the fob dies (even if your driving down the interstate) but offers higher security in that no one can drive it without the “valid key” in the vehicle. Mine won’t necessarily strand me because it allows me to drive back to where I need to go to get a valid key albeit home or a dealer. If I start the car and run back in the house to grab something, when I leave the key behind and put the car in drive it WILL let me drive off without but will put a notice of the dash screen saying the fob isn’t there.
The old style metal keys actually make it better for a thief in that if you start your car to let it warm up and they jump in the drivers seat they can take your car wherever they want stopping and starting as much as they want because you GAVE them the keys. With a digital key, my wife can start her car and walk away, you can’t drive it without that physical key fob. Mine would let you drive away but the second you shut it off or stall it, you’re done.
Your supposed phobia of technology and lack of common sense makes me wonder if you’re stuck in the past and don’t understand technology, or you’re young and dumb or just a troll trying to stir up trouble on a forum for fun....either way, I’m done with your stupidity.
Ignore button solves having to listen to you any further.
you miss the point(s) completely, we agree security is irrelevant any crook that wants it will get it, got it✌

now you’re talking about trying to solve one of the “MANY” new issues that have showed themselves as the result of our laziness...er I mean...brilliance

yup, what to do about that key that’s attached by thin air when the vehicle gets somewhere without it as it either left part way in journey with non driver or still hanging on the hook in the garage

so you stall it in the middle of a road...what now? Safe? Hmmm now where did that damn key go? Oops forgot to push the stop button in the garage when back. Safe?

one reason after another after another we need to try and solve when we had it figured out in the first place lol, a direct physical link in the cockpit area to the ignition that both starts the beast and turns it off...only the operator in full control of that physical link

you keep lovin that button and keep dreaming up all the extra solutions to problems we made by trying to solve a problem we never had, you don’t like that this is human nature? too bad lol...I don’t like it either

and yes, ignore would be a good feature for you, you’ll need it lots lol, you’re not ready for me, told you this is un-winnable argument, I’m not wrong, keep trying or hit that ignore
 

Jt-wrx

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i still wanna know why the damn key is so freakin' huge, i have manual locks and windows and it has no buttons only a key and the fob. talked to a locksmith about finding a smaller option he said no. also looked on quadratec who has a replacement but still big? am i that old that i can't just want a key to put in the ingnition?

#simpleman
this is a big reason all in itself, the fob is a joke, we make an entire computer fit in our pocket better than something that does one or two things...
 

Jt-wrx

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tap tap tap...

still waiting....for any reasons for push button start/proximity entry rfid bullshit other than the only obvious one...straight up laziness?...er i mean...'convenience'

any valid reasons?

anyone else wanna take a stab at it?

IS THERE NO ONE ELSE?!

Sorry, it is a gladiator forum. ;)
 

12BNNT

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i still wanna know why the damn key is so freakin' huge, i have manual locks and windows and it has no buttons only a key and the fob. talked to a locksmith about finding a smaller option he said no. also looked on quadratec who has a replacement but still big? am i that old that i can't just want a key to put in the ingnition?

#simpleman
In your case I can agree. The big fob with manual locks and such is a bit excessive. Unfortunately in today’s manufacturing they try to make as many parts universal across many platforms or trims. One key fob with the circuit board inside whether you have electric locks, proximity or none. The buggiest reason for the size is that circuit board in there but I would think that it and the case it fits in could honestly be a bit smaller.
 

Veloruche

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In your case I can agree. The big fob with manual locks and such is a bit excessive. Unfortunately in today’s manufacturing they try to make as many parts universal across many platforms or trims. One key fob with the circuit board inside whether you have electric locks, proximity or none. The buggiest reason for the size is that circuit board in there but I would think that it and the case it fits in could honestly be a bit smaller.
hi all, new here just got my Jeep last week. I too was frustrated with the over size key fob so I did this today.

See photos below

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