Oh Jeep... Why you so backwards?

[ShadowsPapa]

@ShadowsPapa the majority of your posts has me yearning for my old 340 Duster (hence the user name), and for the record, the shift pattern on that automatic…….

That was a fun one to drop down into first and hammer it. Ahhh the good old days when I was young and irresponsible.

Dusters were cool.
My now ex brother in law had one when I met my first wife.
He took us for a drive in it after he'd done some work on it. We had the front windows down and he took it out on a very flat, very straight, seldom used blacktop road near where he lived. And his goal was to see if it would peg the speedometer. The car literally started to float on the road and I think even he was shook and took it back down to earth quickly.
He was also the one who rode his Honda up and down the steps on the campus of ISU.

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[TrainMan]

I only used this feature once. I didn't notice, it just came to me. Maybe it's my years of playing Flight Simulator with a keyboard. Down arrow makes you go up, up arrow points the nose down.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

I don't know if there's a right away or a wrong way to shift. You can make an argument for both ways, but I do know for the over 40 years I've been driving domestic auto and manual vehicles, (some modified race cars) I've never experienced one configured this way and I wonder how some can come on here and tell folks their subjective opinion is wrong. Did you even school, bro? How about we not chalk up an industry trend or personal preference as some new discovery backed by science, mmkay...?

So it appears that BMW (at some point) decided to change the shift pattern (which would assume the other way was the original, no?) and Jeep wants to be like BMW. Got it.

I don't know if it is a direct correlation but I've been operating backhoes and excavators for over 30 years. I don't know what consideration went into the original 2 levered configuration but it worked very intuitively; assuming most operators will be right-handed, the finer skills required for bucket and crowd are on the right, and the motions requiring less finely-tuned movements (swing and boom) are on the left. Simple, Intuitive, and in flow with the human experience. There is now a different configuration that came with the popularity of scaled excavators that, according to my already engrained muscle memory, has absolutely no rhyme or reason and I cannot figure why it exists. It is also impractical to dedicate the time it would take to relearn it. But digging a trench and driving a vehicle are not the same...

As far as race cars and their non-electronic shifters, I would assume that at least for planetary transmissions, the motion may have more to do with lever efficiency and engine rotation.

Also there seems to be a bit of confusion when it comes to rachet shifters and detent shifters; both of which have enjoyed popularity over the decades.

I don't race my Jeep but I do enjoy climbing sand hills with it and that necessitates putting the trans in manual mode, so after all the banter the question still remains:

Is there a practical way to reverse this?

 

[DankjeeP]

In the early 70's, the Goobermint decreed all motorcycles must have the same shift pattern and location. Neutral between 1 and 2 with a press downward to first from neutral and a lift up for 2 and higher. So the pull of the Jeep shifter to upshift seems natural to me. Any one use a heel/toe shift lever on their motorcycle? Same thing.

Yes, heel/toe is the way to go. I would have a hard time going back to the toe only.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes, heel/toe is the way to go. I would have a hard time going back to the toe only.

That's all I knew for years - toe only. Each bike I had was the same. (I worked on others with different patterns but thankfully didn't have to deal with those)

 

[kooltoys]

This issue has infuriated a previous generation of "tiptronic" users already. VW group went "tip forward for upshifts" and BMW went "tip backwards for upshifts." Jeep appears to have sided with team BMW.

I understand that sequential shifters work more like BMW and that an argument can be made that the BMW style is correct but I think there is no "correct" answer. Once you pick a way that feels right to you going the other way seems wrong. For the record my first manually shifted automatic was a 6sp DSG in a 2008 VW GTI. My wife's Volvo XC90 follows the same convention as VW group. So as far as I am concerned Jeep has it wrong. But I fixed that by buying the 6MT. Which truly has the CORRECT SHIFT PATTERN. Lets be honest - if its not an H pattern you are just playing video games ?

I can agree with your tiptronic views but disagree of the 6MT. It is completely wrong to put a manual transmission in reverse at 70mph!! I have never drove a 6speed until recently.. thats just weird!

 

[Trickster]

I don't know if there's a right away or a wrong way to shift. You can make an argument for both ways.
I don't know if it is a direct correlation but I've been operating backhoes and excavators for over 30 years. I don't know what consideration went into the original 2 levered configuration but it worked very intuitively; assuming most operators will be right-handed, the finer skills required for bucket and crowd are on the right, and the motions requiring less finely-tuned movements (swing and boom) are on the left. Simple, Intuitive, and in flow with the human experience. There is now a different configuration that came with the popularity of scaled excavators that, according to my already engrained muscle memory, has absolutely no rhyme or reason and I cannot figure why it exists. It is also impractical to dedicate the time it would take to relearn it. But digging a trench and driving a vehicle are not the same...

So which do you prefer, ISO(John Deere) or SAE(CAT)?
It’s all based on what you learned on and are most comfortable with.
There is no right or wrong, just different.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

So which do you prefer, ISO(John Deere) or SAE(CAT)?
It’s all based on what you learned on and are most comfortable with.
There is no right or wrong, just different.

I'm not sure which designee refers to which but you should know based on my comment, which, also explains that it's not simply what one has learned on but that there appears logical consideration was given to at least one configuration. This is not to say one can't be proficient with controls configured with no specific consideration.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Seems to me that one of the skid-steer loaders I operated had foot controls while one I owned had hand controls............ been so many years but I do remember that I had to forget everything I knew about operating one to run the other one effectively.
For the most part I ended up picking a brand and stuck to it for all of my equipment - Case and Case-IH
Then when I operated the green stuff, geesh, here we go again. Luckily most of it was pretty easily figured out.

 

[Trickster]

Seems to me that one of the skid-steer loaders I operated had foot controls while one I owned had hand controls............ been so many years but I do remember that I had to forget everything I knew about operating one to run the other one effectively.
For the most part I ended up picking a brand and stuck to it for all of my equipment - Case and Case-IH
Then when I operated the green stuff, geesh, here we go again. Luckily most of it was pretty easily figured out.

Yeah Case had foot controls, now all the lift controls are on the joysticks Bobcat, Deere, Cat, and have a single foot lever for throttle or set the RPMs with a dial.
Want to confuse an old Operator? Tell him to go run a Deere grader with just joysticks, where you steer with them too. Miss the antlers on the CAT, but you know what? Old dogs can learn too. Keep up with the times or get lost in the past.?
Like I mentioned before, my Volvo manual gear changes are side to side, left is downshift, right is upshift. You get used to it.

 

[Trickster]

I'm not sure which designee refers to which but you should know based on my comment, which, also explains that it's not simply what one has learned on but that there appears logical consideration was given to at least one configuration. This is not to say one can't be proficient with controls configured with no specific consideration.

Well there is no logic if your left handed?
Ever tried to use a left handed Skilsaw.
Omg, I couldn’t cut a straight line.?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Like I mentioned before, my Volvo manual gear changes are side to side, left is downshift, right is upshift. You get used to it.

Oddly enough - I could accept that. In fact, to me it makes total sense (full disclosure - I'm very left-handed)

English is written left to right, so to go to the right is to proceed, to move to the left is back up.
What about these:
< less than
> greater than.
So up to the right, down to the left - makes sense.
In a mathematic equation you progress to the right.

 

[mazeppa]

There are threads on JK forums complaining about the the speedometer and tachometer being reversed compared to most other vehicles. About every motorcycle I've seen with a tachometer and a few sport cars have the tach on the right and speedo on the left just like the JKs do.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are threads on JK forums complaining about the the speedometer and tachometer being reversed compared to most other vehicles. About every motorcycle I've seen with a tachometer and a few sport cars have the tach on the right and speedo on the left just like the JKs do.

1973 ->

1970 ->

1982->

 

[Garemlin]

Back up and forward down feels completely natural to me.

I'm just thankful that Jeep hasn't gone to rotary shifters in the Gladiator and Wrangler. I would be in hell. Hate them with a passion.

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