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Why so big?

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ShadowsPapa

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Cars and trucks have all gotten much bigger. Look at an 80s civic, and then look at a new one. Or an 80s or 90s F150 compared to a new one. The new Civics are much bigger than even the old accords. The new F150s are much larger than the older F250s. My '70s VW is like a clown car compared to even the smallest of modern vehicles. Other than the luxo-barge era of the late 60s/early 70s (right before the oil crisis), cars and trucks now are larger than they've ever been.
Oh heck my 73 dwarfs almost anything else out there today. Found that out when I used to drive it to work and park next to modern vehicles. You couldn't see theirs on the other side of mine.
My 82- it sits higher than any SUV out there (aside from JT, etc.) and is big compared to many.

True that trucks have gotten bigger - my 2011 1500 Silverado was longer and wider than my 95 F250 but the JT is smaller than my Silverado (midsize, unfair comparison)
But my current cars are bigger than most. And definitely bigger than a lot of SUVs.

If my wife pulls her Grand Cherokee out of the garage, my Javelin will barely fit in that space.

I'll never forget the pic my son sent years ago of the Ford that hit the back of his SX4 - his car dwarfed the car that rear-ended him.
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ShadowsPapa

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20210805_071252.jpg


Agreed. The CJ even has a 2-2.5" lift and 33s and it's still dwarfed. Granted, the JT has a 2.5" leveling kit and 315s but next to the CJ it's just plain laughable.

Reason is definitely safety and comfort. The CJ's fun, but after an hour or two your back is screaming. Cars in general back in the day really were utter shit when it came to basic structure and construction. I remember a neighborhood dog was chasing a cat one day back in the 70s. Cat darted under a VW Bug, dog didn't. That dog even pulled up a bit before slamming squarely in the door. Owner tried working on it for months then finally threw in the towel and got a new door (gotta love the Pomona Swap Meet, 17 miles of VW parts.) He said one of the hinges was bent and two holes were stripped out on the other, glass was down so that was in a brazillion pieces in the door. Window gear was tweaked and the door handle broke the hook on the back. Can't imagine a 76 Oldsmobuick slamming into it.

I'll take my JT any day as big as it is. What amazes me the most is how smaller cars can have the same safety levels as this thing. Our Mazda CX-3 is a flea in comparison, but I feel equally safe in it.
Roll-over is a big part of the reason for Jeeps. AMC scrambled.......... the roll-over thing was killing 'em.
 

AZCooWhip

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Wayyyyyy too many nanny and “safety” features in today’s cars. Keep it simple.
 

Kilroy1941

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Not going to lie, I would love a small two door willys cj5 sized cheap Jeep. Reminds me of the short cut jeep safari concept
 

NachoRuby

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Not going to lie, I would love a small two door willys cj5 sized cheap Jeep. Reminds me of the short cut jeep safari concept
Yeah, I'd love to have a CJ. I'd love to have a YJ or another TJ too. But I guess Iossed my opportunity. We sold our TJ too soon, and now I could never get another one for the same price. And even the most dilapidated CJ or yj is selling for big money nowadays. I kick myself for not holding on to the TJ, and for not buying a CJ before the market changed.
 
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Willys2Gladiator

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Everything changes with time to keep up. Take a CJ5 down a interstate doing 80..... Roads are faster and more paved than in the good old days.
It all sucks and great at the same time.
 

red/green hawk

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My buddy right out of high school had a '76 Lincoln Town Car that could fit 8 people and a keg. Thing was HUGE! Would not lose in a wreck with my JT.
 

ShadowsPapa

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Yeah, I'd love to have CJ. I'd love to have a YJ or another TJ too. But I guess Iossed my opportunity. We sold our TJ too soon, and now I could never get another one for the same price. And even the most dilapidated CJ or yj is selling for big money nowadays. I kick myself for not holding on to the TJ, and for not buying a CJ before the market changed.
I'll have to see what my wife's aunt might do with her old Jeep when she decides she doesn't want it any more. I know she's at least 70 - but last I talked to her, she said she kept it after her husband died because it was fun.
 

ACAD_Cowboy

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My buddy's first car was his 258/3 speed CJ5, he's 6'4" and I'm 6'. We look like those mini bike twins in it. We fit better in my CJ7 and it drove better with the the 258/T176 and I'm sure we'd love a 327 powered CJ8 and even find it comfortable.

My JKU is way more comfortable than my CJ, his CJ, My SJ's, his XJ and far more capable than his 4runner now. Road noise, environmental temperature, ride comfort, ride control... just about every category you could think up and the JKU wins and my experience with the JL & JT families says they will best the JK family.

As for bloating, there are many many reasons; CAFE loopholes, desires for more comfort, changing design languages, powertrain packaging, crash safety.

Speaking of bloat, in the 80's BMW had the 3,5 and 7 series. Looking at the lineup today the new 3 is now roughly the size as the old 5, the new 5 is roughly the size of the old 7 and the new 7 is nearly S-klasse sized. SUV wise everyone is chasing the LWB 3-row suburban and honestly if you look at the new grand wagoneer, the full sized Lincoln and a LWB suburban and they all look very alike and it sucks. The Grand Wagoneer looks like someone explained what an old SJ GW looked like, as best they can remember it and they just went with it.
 

10ecHarry

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I'm pretty sure that some years ago they made the Jeeps wider so they wouldn't be so easy to tip over.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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I'm pretty sure that some years ago they made the Jeeps wider so they wouldn't be so easy to tip over.
Yup -

Roll-over is a big part of the reason for Jeeps. AMC scrambled.......... the roll-over thing was killing 'em.
I recall those years and the changes pretty much forced on them.
 

Caspien

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All cars are getting bigger. And we they get significantly bigger, they just introduce a new model underneath. BMW 3 series used to me small, now there is a 2 series. Jeep has the renegade (that probably isn’t much different than the old CJ). Ford now has the Maverick.

So why do cars get bigger? Mostly marketing. They survey buyers every year: Do you want more power? More storage space? More elbow room? More more? When asked if you would like more, Americans don’t say ”No Thanks”. Even if we are perfectly happy, we still say, “sure, more would be nice”. Then marketing tells accounting that they could sell more if they offered “more”. So bigger it gets.

On the plus side, the new Jeeps, with the wider tracks, aren’t as prone to flipping.

Sort of related fun fact..

The jeep renegade is actually wider than the jeep gladiator ;)

It was an observation I wondered about after upgrading from a renegade trailhawk to the JTR.. I felt like I actually had more room in my driveway, next to my wife's compass... Turn out they are actually about 1/2" less wide ;)

So I wasn't completely crazy... At least...not about that, anyway ;)



~ Casp
 

NachoRuby

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Sort of related fun fact..

The jeep renegade is actually wider than the jeep gladiator ;)

It was an observation I wondered about after upgrading from a renegade trailhawk to the JTR.. I felt like I actually had more room in my driveway, next to my wife's compass... Turn out they are actually about 1/2" less wide ;)

So I wasn't completely crazy... At least...not about that, anyway ;)



~ Casp
I definitely believe it. Wranglers/Gladiators are intentionally narrow. All of the manual owners out there believe it, since there is literally no room for a dead pedal on manual models.
 

redrider

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McDonald's did it to us. Would you like that super sized? I mean really. We need to have bigger cars and trucks for our larger asses to fit into. Blame it on McDonald's!?
Good take. I found a stash of yearbooks in a basement at the local university. One was from my freshman year, 1976. One shot of campus life was of many hundreds of us as a group. I was shocked at how the majority of us looked like Auschwitz refugees. The chubbies you could count on one hand. Good times. Now, even the skinny ones look like ball park franks.
 

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Took a family pic today and really realized how much bigger current Jeeps are from where they began (86 wide track is still wider than earlier CJs). Funny how cars in general have gotten much smaller but trucks and Jeeps have gotten remarkably larger. Some of it I’m sure is consumer driven but a bunch of it is Uncle Sugar knowing what’s best for us and mandating a bunch of crap to protect the public from themselves. Funny since horsepower today has never been more affordable and 400+ Legit HP is common place in all sorts of vehicles. While I love my JT, this pic makes me wish even more it was an extended cab at most and was about a foot narrower.

43BD202C-845D-4B4A-9F76-7ADDBE38C878.jpeg
You could probably get back half of that "a foot narrower" by returning to stock wheel offset (or removing wheel spacers if that is the case.)

Jeeps had to get wider to survive - in a similar manner that the Corvette in '68 had to get more aerodynamic since they (in prior years) were lovingly described as a "bad airplane" at speeds they were capable of achieving. I loved the styling of the '67 and earlier models, but I also understand why they had to make such changes.

Maybe not for styles sake, but it is progress.
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