Paging ShadowsPapa, @ShadowsPapa please come to the courtesy counter

[Jeeperjamie]

Where's @ShadowsPapa at?

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[gpwrang33]

just sitting here waiting for @ShadowsPapa

 

[Red-Paint]

Im no Shadow buttttt... I have flushed more motors than I can count. Our JT's are new and do NOT need to be flushed. Do normal maintenance and you're good. What I did was on older trucks in the 80-90s and always use (Motor Flush). Store bought and not a mix of something. You add a quart then idle for 5 min, It's very thin and oil would drain out fast. We then add cheap oil and drive a week and drain that.

 

[danielspivey]

For the last 10 years, I’ve just pulled the drain plug, filled it with water, put a little dish soap or laundry detergent in there, drove it around the block a couple times and this seemed to do the trick. No need to bring it to somebody to clean it out when you can do it yourself with some stuff around the house!

 

[mazeppa]

For the last 10 years, I’ve just pulled the drain plug, filled it with water, put a little dish soap or laundry detergent in there, drove it around the block a couple times and this seemed to do the trick. No need to bring it to somebody to clean it out when you can do it yourself with some stuff around the house!

Make sure you use Dawn Professional Dish Detergent, and most important that it's the original scent.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Once again paging @ShadowsPapa to the courtesy phone. Glad to see you back.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I wonder how many modern engines are messed up, cam phasers, and other things of extreme tight tolerances are screwed up by putting things other than oil in an engine.............

I've seen a lot done over the years, including comet put into a 56 Chevy V8 to help seat rings (not by me!).

 

[Munkey Boy]

Comet, it'll hone and score your cylinder at the same time! AND it makes a great dessert topping! Is there anything it CAN'T do?!

 

[PyrPatriot]

I wonder how many modern engines are messed up, cam phasers, and other things of extreme tight tolerances are screwed up by putting things other than oil in an engine.............

I've seen a lot done over the years, including comet put into a 56 Chevy V8 to help seat rings (not by me!).

So flushing an engine with things like ATF fluid is/was acceptable practice for non-modern engines?

What was the result of the comet into the V8?

 

[WXman]

As long as the engine isn't being starved for oil, the generally accepted method for cleaning up a sludged engine is to use a newer oil (API SN, for example), and let that oil break down the sludged oil over multiple short oil change intervals (500-1k miles). This is intended to remove the sludge without dislodging so much sludge at once that it clogs oil passages. It is also backwards compatible, so the new oil ratings won't damage older seals and gaskets.

This is the way to do it.

DO NOT put anything other than oil into your engine if you want your seals and cam lobes to survive very long.

Using ATF, diesel, etc. in an engine that is not intended to be started for years is done to prevent the cylinders from seizing up. This is done when the engine is about to undergo an eventual rebuild and is opened up.

If it's an engine that is assembled and needs to be run, OIL ONLY.

According to the Owner's Manual, the automatic transmission is a sealed unit that should need no service. There is no method provided for the owner to check the level, add, or change the fluid or filter.

That's because the automakers consider 150,000 miles to be "lifetime".

There are plenty of people who plan to drive a $55,000 vehicle longer than 150,000 miles. I would strongly suggest trans. fluid changes every 60k.

 

[PyrPatriot]

There are plenty of people who plan to drive a $55,000 vehicle longer than 150,000 miles. I would strongly suggest trans. fluid changes every 60k.

while they are expensive in a JT, much cheaper than a new transmission.

Which, come to think of it, plenty of threads on high-mileage 3.6L Pentastar engines, not so much on this transmission

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So flushing an engine with things like ATF fluid is/was acceptable practice for non-modern engines?

What was the result of the comet into the V8?

Acceptable? Not really. A lot of backyarders and DIYers did it - uncle Bubba's cousin's friend Jim knew someone who had a neighbor who did it and it worked, so now they all swear by it. Or some guy once changed the oil in a friends truck and flushed it and it ran so now they are the neighborhood go-to person on all things auto.
People did it.
I won't, no matter the age.
I have used engine flush products on older engines - but those got quickly changed out and the owner was told to bring it back in for another oil/filter change after something like 100 miles or so.
You start breaking things loose you plug a filter, the bypass opens and you are running unfiltered oil with crud in it. (best just to keep it clean inside to begin with!)

Believe it or not, the comet did appear to have reduced oil consumption. Did the engine last? I have no idea. I can't tell you how much or how hard it was driven, or the long-term results.
Short term, it did reduce oil consumption. For all I know, however, it may have needed a rebuild a few thousand miles later due to damage - don't know.

DO NOT put anything other than oil into your engine if you want your seals and cam lobes to survive very long.

Using ATF, diesel, etc. in an engine that is not intended to be started for years is done to prevent the cylinders from seizing up. This is done when the engine is about to undergo an eventual rebuild and is opened up.

I would not even put diesel into the crankcase or cylinders of an engine and let it sit. It has sulfur and that makes me nervous - even the low sulfur type has some, and that can combine with moisture to cause issues.
Kerosene, perhaps, a mix of kerosene and ATF, perhaps - it's thin and will soak down past things better than squirting oil in but what I do is use a low viscosity oil, squirt oil into cylinders, turn it over by hand to work it around inside, oil down the intake to coat valves, turn it over a few times.
If it's in a car I MIGHT add something like STP (to an old engine only) and crank it over good as that stuff will coat cam lobes and other parts and stay better than straight oil.
You want the valve stems coated good as I've seen guys store away cars or engines, turn them over - only to bend all the push rods because the valves rusted in the guides.

I've got several engines stored away at this time - a 343, a 401, a 4.0 and a partially assembled 360.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Acceptable? Not really. A lot of backyarders and DIYers did it - uncle Bubba's cousin's friend Jim knew someone who had a neighbor who did it and it worked, so now they all swear by it. Or some guy once changed the oil in a friends truck and flushed it and it ran so now they are the neighborhood go-to person on all things auto.
People did it.
I won't, no matter the age.
I have used engine flush products on older engines - but those got quickly changed out and the owner was told to bring it back in for another oil/filter change after something like 100 miles or so.
You start breaking things loose you plug a filter, the bypass opens and you are running unfiltered oil with crud in it. (best just to keep it clean inside to begin with!)

Believe it or not, the comet did appear to have reduced oil consumption. Did the engine last? I have no idea. I can't tell you how much or how hard it was driven, or the long-term results.
Short term, it did reduce oil consumption. For all I know, however, it may have needed a rebuild a few thousand miles later due to damage - don't know.



I would not even put diesel into the crankcase or cylinders of an engine and let it sit. It has sulfur and that makes me nervous - even the low sulfur type has some, and that can combine with moisture to cause issues.
Kerosene, perhaps, a mix of kerosene and ATF, perhaps - it's thin and will soak down past things better than squirting oil in but what I do is use a low viscosity oil, squirt oil into cylinders, turn it over by hand to work it around inside, oil down the intake to coat valves, turn it over a few times.
If it's in a car I MIGHT add something like STP (to an old engine only) and crank it over good as that stuff will coat cam lobes and other parts and stay better than straight oil.
You want the valve stems coated good as I've seen guys store away cars or engines, turn them over - only to bend all the push rods because the valves rusted in the guides.

I've got several engines stored away at this time - a 343, a 401, a 4.0 and a partially assembled 360.

Thank you for your learned and expert opinion in answering the question. That is what I wanted to know

 

[Munkey Boy]

I've only used ATF to free up frozen pistons in antiques. It is amazing how it can get in between fused walls. Had an old twin hit & miss (might have been a Caldwell, can't remember) that sat under the leak in a guys roof for over fifty years completely rusted solid. A couple gallons of ATF for a week long bath and we got the crank and pistons to move. Graduated from boat anchor to doohickey! Once free, complete tear down to get everything out including the ATF, 50+ year old sludge (yes, water and oil DO mix and it's disgusting), rusty tidbits, varmints, varmint shit, varmint nests (all also disgusting), and various bits and pieces explaining why the engine was left to sit for 50+ years under a leak in the roof. Granted, them old hit and miss barely ran to begin with and the notion of tolerances was "free range" at best with poured babbitt bearings; so, along with the beef of everything being exposed cast iron and YOU being the oil pump, throw some go-go juice in and let her sing.

As for anything new and tight, oil only. Maybe Seafoam although I haven't ever felt I had to use it in any modern engines (2000 on up), but I trust it. Lucas wasn't bad the few times I used it, but I've had weird deposits using STP on a couple smaller engines. Strange discoloring on rod journals and cylinder walls that I can't explain. But a couple mechanics I grew up with swore by it their entire lives. They also religiously cheered for Richard Petty. ? That 0W-20 makes me laugh, it looks like strong coffee. But regular maintenance and clean air and oil filters will likely never give you problems worth flushing an engine for. And the life expectancy of full synthetics is mind boggling. Personally, I strictly use Mobil 1. But then I also religiously cheer for Kevin Harvick. hmm.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have a 7 HP Chapman (the Canadian built, Dundas, Ontario) - it's been in my garage stuck for 25 years. I've tried ATF, brake fluid, kerosene, and every brand of panther piss you can get, including Gibbs which I consider to be among the best. I've stood it on end, cylinder up, put a couple of inches of brake fluid in the cylinder on the head of the piston, put in a rag as a wick and lit it. I let it burn until things got hot and then put a thick steel plate on the piston and used my porta-power and still - no movement. I set it down and built a charcoal fire in the water hopper and got it too hot to touch - again tried the porta-power - no movement.
I've successfully unstuck many engines, including the 1.5 HP McCormick-Deering and a Regular tractor - but this Chapman is STUCK. The piston is at least 6" long and the cylinder about that big diameter.

I hope to get the 7hp going one day and run it along its little 2hp brother.

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