Rattle from engine when accelerating (sounds like keys)

[ShadowsPapa]

Again? Back to gas issues. Why isnt every gladiator pinging then? Makes no sense, every gas brand is still shipping winter formula? So then does that mean theyll be shipping summer formula in the winter?

You are correct - they are not. There's a good article on Bloomberg about it but I'm not a subscriber. I saw bits of it before it faded and their paywall came up. That was 2020, and the EPA delayed the required date to May 20, 2020. This year, 2021, things were normal. I find nothing about any delay for this year. Everything points back to 2020.

Sponsored

 

[SelfmodJT]

If this was the case, i guess only gladiators in 4 seasonal weather would have this issue. Does any one that lives in the deep south or westcoast have this issue???? They have no reason to get a winter formula, correct?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah, even California has such standards although the months and dates vary with location.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-09/2020-09_Petroleum_Watch_ADA.pdf

 

[Jeepin' John]

I had mine in to the Jeep dealership for diagnosis of this condition today. I stated that the noise sounded like pre-ignition knock / pinging at RPM's between 1000 - 1500, while under acceleration. Occurs in every gear. (Automatic) High octane fuel and octane boost additives alleviate the condition.

Service department evaluated the vehicle, and came back with the following. They confirmed that the reported noise was certainly pre-ignition knocking / pinging. They advised that I should continue to run high octane fuel, and additive. They provided me with an official Mopar service bulletin which stated that the condition has been seen in many vehicles. They attributed the problem to the fact the due to gasoline supply chain shortages, that refineries are still shipping "winter formula" distillation of gasoline, which causes this condition in warmer weather.

They advised that once the weather gets colder, the engine would be able to burn the "winter fuel" without causing pinging. They predicted that by next spring, that refineries would be able to deliver gasoline properly formulated for the climate.

I asked directly as to weather the O2 sensors, mixture, valve timing, and other combustion factors were on spec. The service advisor stated that all were OK. They provided an RO and a copy of the bulletin.

Some skepticism remains.

Mine would experience LSPI constantly. Never loud or long, but repeated 3-second long knocking multiple times per drive at low rpm and light throttle. Temperature seems to make no difference - would do it on cool days as well as hot days.

Now I've got just over 400 miles on my 5w-30 oil, mishimoto catch can, and 89 octane setup and LSPI is 99% gone. I try to make it happen from time to time and rarely can get it to knock. So far so good - very happy with how the engine is running. No perceivable mpg drop - still at/over 18mpg "city" (suburbia / school carpool / morning traffic / some idling). I suspect mpg is still good due to less blow-by and cleaner combustion (less oil making it into the intake manifold)

I'm pretty certain now that LSPI results in the combination of thin 0w-20 oil and high engine compression. This causes excessive oil in the intake manifold / combustion chambers and results in knock. Running premium fuel is a bandaid to try and overcome the oil problem with excessive fuel octane. Doesn't help the root of the problem though.

one other forum member seemed to have good luck with a dual catch can setup. I'm just sticking with one

---and just because i say i'm doing something, like running 5w-30 oil, does not mean i'm encouraging anyone else to do the same---

 

[SelfmodJT]

Mine would experience LSPI constantly. Never loud or long, but repeated 3-second long knocking multiple times per drive at low rpm and light throttle. Temperature seems to make no difference - would do it on cool days as well as hot days.

Now I've got just over 400 miles on my 5w-30 oil, mishimoto catch can, and 89 octane setup and LSPI is 99% gone. I try to make it happen from time to time and rarely can get it to knock. So far so good - very happy with how the engine is running. No perceivable mpg drop - still at/over 18mpg "city" (suburbia / school carpool / morning traffic / some idling). I suspect mpg is still good due to less blow-by and cleaner combustion (less oil making it into the intake manifold)

I'm pretty certain now that LSPI results in the combination of thin 0w-20 oil and high engine compression. This causes excessive oil in the intake manifold / combustion chambers and results in knock. Running premium fuel is a bandaid to try and overcome the oil problem with excessive fuel octane. Doesn't help the root of the problem though.

one other forum member seemed to have good luck with a dual catch can setup. I'm just sticking with one

---and just because i say i'm doing something, like running 5w-30 oil, does not mean i'm encouraging anyone else to do the same---

Yeah, im not using different oil even if that solves the problem because knowing my luck ill have some other issue and theyll voild the warranty for using a different oil then the one they said to use. Like i said, let it ping and use 87. Drive the shit out of it until it becomes an issue that cant be ignored

 

[Jeepin' John]

Yeah, im not using different oil even if that solves the problem because knowing my luck ill have some other issue and theyll voild the warranty for using a different oil then the one they said to use. Like i said, let it ping and use 87. Drive the shit out of it until it becomes an issue that cant be ignored

Totally understand that. Everybody's situation is different. For me, i have no confidence in dealership service / warranty work whatsoever, and i'm planning on putting 200k miles on my jt, so letting it ping nonstop and then possibly having an engine issue at 115k miles is not going to work for me. They know it's going to knock, and they also know they're off the hook when the warranty goes out

 

[SelfmodJT]

Totally understand that. Everybody's situation is different. For me, i have no confidence in dealership service / warranty work whatsoever, and i'm planning on putting 200k miles on my jt, so letting it ping nonstop and then possibly having an engine issue at 115k miles is not going to work for me. They know it's going to knock, and they also know they're off the hook when the warranty goes out

Thats why i got an extended warranty for 125k. And i will not tell them i have an extended warranty and im sure theyll say its a major issue at 60,001 miles???

 

[SelfmodJT]

Reguardless, to each their own. If youre knowledgable to tear down the engine and able to fix and repair as you seem fit, more power to you. I am not that knowledgable, but im learning but i dont ever plan on taking out an engine and tearing it apart. Im sure if it is detonation or preignition it will have to be addressed before 125k miles. Personally, i dont even care about the rattling as long as it doesnt leave me stranded. Just happy to be able to drive it and not have other major issues some other members are having. If i had to pick one issue out off all the ones listed on the forum that is engine related, this would be the one. Also, 89 is almost 1.00 more then 87 at bp gas stations. You could probably have paid for a new engine by the time you reach 100k miles.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

---and just because i say i'm doing something, like running 5w-30 oil, does not mean i'm encouraging anyone else to do the same---

If I take your meaning right - you are experimenting to see if there's a combination of factors, or even one better than another.

Let's put it this way on the oil thing - GM did wonders with the latest LS versions - high compression, no overheating, genius head cooling mods, even down to relieving hot spots and venting steam pockets internally. So I feel MOPAR could do the same or similar.

But then from what I've seen, GM has some very recent patents on built-in oil "catch cans" that are self-purging. Hmmmm - now why would they do that?

 

[Jeepin' John]

Reguardless, to each their own. If youre knowledgable to tear down the engine and able to fix and repair as you seem fit, more power to you. I am not that knowledgable, but im learning but i dont ever plan on taking out an engine and tearing it apart. Im sure if it is detonation or preignition it will have to be addressed before 125k miles. Personally, i dont even care about the rattling as long as it doesnt leave me stranded. Just happy to be able to drive it and not have other major issues some other members are having. If i had to pick one issue out off all the ones listed on the forum that is engine related, this would be the one. Also, 89 is almost 1.00 more then 87 at bp gas stations. You could probably have paid for a new engine by the time you reach 100k miles.

it's $0.30 different here, and my fuel is a business expense. And in theory, i should be able to go down to 87 with the same result. I happen to run 89 currently so i wanted to be accurate about that. The 89 part is more about just trying to help out the pentastar with its high compression, independent of the oil / LSPI problem

I don't want to replace an engine. I want the one that's in it to run 200k miles min

 

[ShadowsPapa]

it's $0.30 different here, and my fuel is a business expense. I don't want to replace an engine. I want the one that's in it to run 200k miles min

Depending on station and whether or not it's top tier - can be 45 cents difference.
I ran 91 when towing as sort of an experiment, I'm back to 87 - zero ping.
So - that suggests to me that while 89 may help, and catch cans may help - they are solutions that aren't addressing underlying issues such as cam phaser troubles or programming issues.
Not that it's a bad thing what you are doing - not at all, not a bit - if it resolves your ping - cool - but my bet is that the underlying issues are still there (tune issues, phasers not keeping up, etc.)
I've got just shy of 20,000 miles on mine, been all over the place with it, over-loaded, just properly loaded, towing, not towing, mountains, flats, never a ping. My wife is a stickler for noises that don't seem proper. She's noticed nothing. She can hear a whisper a room away (like most women (- they have superior hearing, especially in the higher ranges))

I'm the sort, though, that would like to see what a catch can might gather up on mine - even though I have no issues with ping regardless of the source or reason for such a thing.
I'd just like to see what it would gather on mine. That would simply be another "data point".

 

[Jeepin' John]

If I take your meaning right - you are experimenting to see if there's a combination of factors, or even one better than another.

Let's put it this way on the oil thing - GM did wonders with the latest LS versions - high compression, no overheating, genius head cooling mods, even down to relieving hot spots and venting steam pockets internally. So I feel MOPAR could do the same or similar.

But then from what I've seen, GM has some very recent patents on built-in oil "catch cans" that are self-purging. Hmmmm - now why would they do that?

the 5w-30 experiment is to see if the higher viscosity oil results in 1) less oil making by the rings and getting into the cylinders, and 2) less oil making it through the PCV system and getting by my catch can

i noticed that LSPI was also gone -right after- i installed my catch can on 0w-20. But then it popped up again, even on 93 octane. Checked my clean line from the catch can and found oil. So i think it was gone when the catch can lines were 100% new / free from any oil, and came back after the 0w-20 was blowing through the can. And it's not an "amazon special" can

 

[iGlad]

Just got my truck back again, here are the details from this specific noise:

Will be exploring this decibel test a bit more. I would like to see what other gladiators (Other than mine and the one they drove to replicate the issue) read out to be.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I REALLY REALLY honestly wish just one of these, especially this one, was close to me. I'd invite the dealer to drive my JT, and the owner of the above JT to drive mine and listen.
Mine has been quiet - no ping. I've owned and driven vehicles that ping. I've test driven vehicles that ping. I know I'm old and decrepit (64 and falling apart) but I'd like to think I can still hear a ping, I KNOW my wife would hear it if it existed.

I'd like to add this thought - and DAVE, a real JT tune EXPERT can correct me if I'm wrong here - and if I'm wrong I hope he DOES correct this thinking -
Adding octane booster isn't likely to have as much impact instantly as it would after driving around a while. I mean, if they add the booster then take it right out for another drive - I have doubts about that sort of difference that fast. After driving a while, perhaps........... but instantly?
I also used to use octane booster in my 70 Javelin with a mild 390 and the can of booster said "raises octane 1 point etc etc etc" and we figured - you'd have to add a lot to get from 87 to 89, for example.

 

[SelfmodJT]

Just got my truck back again, here are the details from this specific noise:

Will be exploring this decibel test a bit more. I would like to see what other gladiators (Other than mine and the one they drove to replicate the issue) read out to be.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of gas mileage are you getting? Is it bad?

I called a different dealer because my exhaust intermittently smells like sulfer or rotten eggs and the tech said try a different type of gas. He said its normal for the gladiator to do that depending on what brand gas youre using??? He stated he drove a few that had the same smell? All the research i have done states that this isnt normal. I also told him im barely getting 13mpg and he said thats normal too? I asked if theres anyway i could be running rich and he said if i were the cel would be on. Basically, they are going to say any issue is normal unless a code is thrown.

Sponsored