Rattle from engine when accelerating (sounds like keys)

[ShadowsPapa]

The quick ping that most experience is not quick on mine. It can go for 1/4 mile straight if the conditions are just right. And it sounds like a bad throw out bearing. Problem is I have an 8spd auto.

Anything THAT LONG is problematic. You don't need anyone at all to convince you of that. If it continues on more than a brief time.
However, I've never heard a ping, the rattle of detonation, described as anything other than a rattle, keys, rocks or marbles, etc. - a bad release bearing to me simply sounds like a bad bearing, rough. Not rattling. A bad bearing is more of a grind or howl rough.
I'd have to hear yours in person but are we SURE absolutely it's the booms of flame front colliding - resonating in the block and not something else?
I'd never describe ping or detonation as a bearing sound (and I've had my share of bad bearings over the years - and have worked on hundreds of clutches for others)

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[SelfmodJT]

The quick ping that most experience is not quick on mine. It can go for 1/4 mile straight if the conditions are just right. And it sounds like a bad throw out bearing. Problem is I have an 8spd auto.

1/4 mile? What did the dealer say? They cant say that's normal? I think it's a heat issue, dont know if the spark plugs are burning hot or what but it never makes noise when you first drive the jeep until the oil temp reaches 190 or so. I cant believe how much of a pain in the ass it is to get to the spark plugs. If it was easier I would have done so to check the plugs and check for oil leaks etc.

 

[DAVECS1]

Well generally as Papa stated thicker oils will affect the phazers as they run off oil pressure. How much is anyone's guess.

As for long term ping (wont play the name game) it would be good to log cam position. I have 12 or so logs that I can show were the cams were in the wrong position and caused weird combustion behaviors that were noisy.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well generally as Papa stated thicker oils will affect the phazers as they run off oil pressure. How much is anyone's guess.

As for long term ping (wont play the name game) it would be good to log cam position. I have 12 or so logs that I can show were the cams were in the wrong position and caused weird combustion behaviors that were noisy.

I MUST make the time to check in with you and see what you've discovered on these things.
The titan of tune has seen more than anyone.
So, how can one log these things - any of the software we have capable??
This is all I have seen in anything I've gathered - nothing at all about valve lift or timing. Only ignition timing, and so on -


Open Loop due to Driving Conditions - Bank 2: No
Open Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Closed Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Engine load: 30.20 %
Freeze Frame Engine Coolant Temp: 66.00 Deg.C
Intake Air Temperature: 215.00 Deg.C
Ambient Air Temperature: 12.00 Deg.C
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: 12.49 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: -3.13 %
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: 9.37 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: -7.04 %
MAP Voltage: 1.96 V
MAP: 46 kPa
Atmospheric pressure: 97 kPa
Engine RPM: 875.00 rpm
Vehicle speed: 0 MPH
Throttle Position Sensor 1 Percent: 12.94 %
Battery voltage: 14.58 V
Fuel level: 95.69 %
Purge Solenoid Current: 0.00 mA
Purge Duty Cycle: 0.00 %
Idle Air Control (IAC) Current: 0.00 mA
Idle Air Control (IAC) Duty Cycle: 0.00 %
EGR Flow: 0.00 g/s
Current Adaptive Cell ID: 24
Spark advance: -2.00 Deg
AC Clutch: Disengaged
EGR Gassed Flowing: No
Power Steering High Pressure: No


Valve lift and valve timing can do all sorts of things - spend a couple of days at a drag strip watching cars, Jeeps and even some built motorcycles running the track and you'd swear some of them are going to blow - they pop and backfire and shoot flames - until they hit about 5,000 rpm.
Imagine if the LSA on these drops down and you get some overlap in.
Just running different octane in mine made the intake and exhaust sound different - it's responding as it should and adjusting.

 

[DAVECS1]

I MUST make the time to check in with you and see what you've discovered on these things.
The titan of tune has seen more than anyone.
So, how can one log these things - any of the software we have capable??
This is all I have seen in anything I've gathered - nothing at all about valve lift or timing. Only ignition timing, and so on -


Open Loop due to Driving Conditions - Bank 2: No
Open Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Closed Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Engine load: 30.20 %
Freeze Frame Engine Coolant Temp: 66.00 Deg.C
Intake Air Temperature: 215.00 Deg.C
Ambient Air Temperature: 12.00 Deg.C
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: 12.49 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: -3.13 %
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: 9.37 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: -7.04 %
MAP Voltage: 1.96 V
MAP: 46 kPa
Atmospheric pressure: 97 kPa
Engine RPM: 875.00 rpm
Vehicle speed: 0 MPH
Throttle Position Sensor 1 Percent: 12.94 %
Battery voltage: 14.58 V
Fuel level: 95.69 %
Purge Solenoid Current: 0.00 mA
Purge Duty Cycle: 0.00 %
Idle Air Control (IAC) Current: 0.00 mA
Idle Air Control (IAC) Duty Cycle: 0.00 %
EGR Flow: 0.00 g/s
Current Adaptive Cell ID: 24
Spark advance: -2.00 Deg
AC Clutch: Disengaged
EGR Gassed Flowing: No
Power Steering High Pressure: No


Valve lift and valve timing can do all sorts of things - spend a couple of days at a drag strip watching cars, Jeeps and even some built motorcycles running the track and you'd swear some of them are going to blow - they pop and backfire and shoot flames - until they hit about 5,000 rpm.
Imagine if the LSA on these drops down and you get some overlap in.
Just running different octane in mine made the intake and exhaust sound different - it's responding as it should and adjusting.

HP Tuners actually logs commanded and achieved cam angle from center line. I have seen more than one never meet angle commanded, and it causes over boost and lots of knock

 

[Scrubb84]

Sorry for the dumb question...
Got another appt at my local dealer this week for this issue. What exactly do I need to tell them to do/check?
If I don’t tell them or ask them, they won’t do anything (literally).

 

[SelfmodJT]

Lol, you said you can replicate the noise for 1/4 mile. Go for a drive with the tech and see what he says? He gonna ask you "what type of gas you using?" Then proceed to tell him 87 just as the manual states to use. Im sure they wont give you a hard time if it makes the noise for a 1/4 mile.

 

[Scrubb84]

Lol, you said you can replicate the noise for 1/4 mile. Go for a drive with the tech and see what he says? He gonna ask you "what type of gas you using?" Then proceed to tell him 87 just as the manual states to use. Im sure they wont give you a hard time if it makes the noise for a 1/4 mile.

The last tech that rode with me claimed it wasnt loud enough. In the same 10 minute span he also said he was hard of hearing.
I can’t make this shit up. This is what I’m dealing with.

 

[SelfmodJT]

The last tech that rode with me claimed it wasnt loud enough. In the same 10 minute span he also said he was hard of hearing.
I can’t make this shit up. This is what I’m dealing with.

Lol, wtf demand another tech. Now i think youre trolling this thread.

 

[SelfmodJT]

Next, youre going ro get a check engine light and get a blind tech. ??

 

[Scrubb84]

Lol, wtf demand another tech. Now i think youre trolling this thread.

Lol. This was the 4th tech that has heard it and said some ridiculous shit to explain it away as fast as possible.
IMO they cant really be this stupid. They have to know what the problem is and say anything they can to avoid fixing it.

 

[shokker70]

Yup, regardless of how u drive, it is a shit-show. I wish a 5th grader was on the engineering/design teams. Things would have been a whole lot better all the way around, not just the transmission.

Correct. Do not have Max Tow.

 

[JeepAFX]

I had mine in to the Jeep dealership for diagnosis of this condition today. I stated that the noise sounded like pre-ignition knock / pinging at RPM's between 1000 - 1500, while under acceleration. Occurs in every gear. (Automatic) High octane fuel and octane boost additives alleviate the condition.

Service department evaluated the vehicle, and came back with the following. They confirmed that the reported noise was certainly pre-ignition knocking / pinging. They advised that I should continue to run high octane fuel, and additive. They provided me with an official Mopar service bulletin which stated that the condition has been seen in many vehicles. They attributed the problem to the fact the due to gasoline supply chain shortages, that refineries are still shipping "winter formula" distillation of gasoline, which causes this condition in warmer weather.

They advised that once the weather gets colder, the engine would be able to burn the "winter fuel" without causing pinging. They predicted that by next spring, that refineries would be able to deliver gasoline properly formulated for the climate.

I asked directly as to weather the O2 sensors, mixture, valve timing, and other combustion factors were on spec. The service advisor stated that all were OK. They provided an RO and a copy of the bulletin.

Some skepticism remains.

 

[SelfmodJT]

I had mine in to the Jeep dealership for diagnosis of this condition today. I stated that the noise sounded like pre-ignition knock / pinging at RPM's between 1000 - 1500, while under acceleration. Occurs in every gear. (Automatic) High octane fuel and octane boost additives alleviate the condition.

Service department evaluated the vehicle, and came back with the following. They confirmed that the reported noise was certainly pre-ignition knocking / pinging. They advised that I should continue to run high octane fuel, and additive. They provided me with an official Mopar service bulletin which stated that the condition has been seen in many vehicles. They attributed the problem to the fact the due to gasoline supply chain shortages, that refineries are still shipping "winter formula" distillation of gasoline, which causes this condition in warmer weather.

They advised that once the weather gets colder, the engine would be able to burn the "winter fuel" without causing pinging. They predicted that by next spring, that refineries would be able to deliver gasoline properly formulated for the climate.

I asked directly as to weather the O2 sensors, mixture, valve timing, and other combustion factors were on spec. The service advisor stated that all were OK. They provided an RO and a copy of the bulletin.

Some skepticism remains.

Again? Back to gas issues. Why isnt every gladiator pinging then? Makes no sense, every gas brand is still shipping winter formula? So then does that mean theyll be shipping summer formula in the winter?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I had mine in to the Jeep dealership for diagnosis of this condition today. I stated that the noise sounded like pre-ignition knock / pinging at RPM's between 1000 - 1500, while under acceleration. Occurs in every gear. (Automatic) High octane fuel and octane boost additives alleviate the condition.

Service department evaluated the vehicle, and came back with the following. They confirmed that the reported noise was certainly pre-ignition knocking / pinging. They advised that I should continue to run high octane fuel, and additive. They provided me with an official Mopar service bulletin which stated that the condition has been seen in many vehicles. They attributed the problem to the fact the due to gasoline supply chain shortages, that refineries are still shipping "winter formula" distillation of gasoline, which causes this condition in warmer weather.

They advised that once the weather gets colder, the engine would be able to burn the "winter fuel" without causing pinging. They predicted that by next spring, that refineries would be able to deliver gasoline properly formulated for the climate.

I asked directly as to weather the O2 sensors, mixture, valve timing, and other combustion factors were on spec. The service advisor stated that all were OK. They provided an RO and a copy of the bulletin.

Some skepticism remains.

That's an OLD bulletin. I've seen it as well but that really should be long since over.
This is September, hard to imagine that we would STILL be getting winter formulation. Along with that - why doesn't mine or thousands of others ping on the same fuel?

That shortage was actually 2020, not 2021, and the regulations provide that summer blend be provided by a certain date. The date was only delayed, not deleted.

https://www.bicklawllp.com/our-insights/covid-19-silver-lining-low-gasoline-prices-but-at-what-cost/

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