Sunrider owners - MY mess-up, or theirs?

[WILDHOBO]

Is your the Jeep branded or Bestop branded?
No way I'm paying for seals and replacing them when an ill-fitting top is the issue, sorry. Jeep and Bestop own this issue.
Some also say tucking the seal can lead to leaks. It's designed to be how it is from the factory, another ding against Bestop/Jeep.

I apologize, but I need to ask. Do you want this fixed? My impression after the last few posts is you’re more interested in being pissed off. This has mostly been pinpointed. You should be happy you alerted others. A seal change in 2025 doesn’t match an aftermarket (Jeep branded), but still aftermarket part. The aftermarket company, @Bestop, is a fantastic company to work with. I have zero doubt that they’d be more than happy to help resolve this. But with all the finger pointing and blame, I can’t imagine they’ll be too excited to help. They still likely will as they’re a great company that stands behind their products. But did you consider the possibility that Jeep alone made a mistake? Maybe Jeep screwed up and didn’t realize their new seals wouldn’t work with an accessory like this, and just threw it on the build without thinking. Everyone on this thread had tried to help you find a solution. But phrases like “another ding against”, are just likely to alienate people. If you want this over and don’t care to be part of the resolution, return the sunrider to the Jeep dealer, and get some money back. Put your freedom tops back on and move on. It’s a great Jeep.

Sponsored

 

[JonMN]

Is your the Jeep branded or Bestop branded?
No way I'm paying for seals and replacing them when an ill-fitting top is the issue, sorry. Jeep and Bestop own this issue.
Some also say tucking the seal can lead to leaks. It's designed to be how it is from the factory, another ding against Bestop/Jeep.

Mine's Bestop. I'm not quite sure how you can seal against a foam gasket without leaving a mark.
My take on the flap: If you find early installation videos, I think the flap in question is relatively new. There is a channel on the weatherstrip that can't be folded over or it will not channel water. The flap on the new seal is not the same thing--I have run mine folded under for over a year with no leaks. I actually watched water flow with flap in or out and there was no difference.

 

[Eagle22]

Is your the Jeep branded or Bestop branded?
No way I'm paying for seals and replacing them when an ill-fitting top is the issue, sorry. Jeep and Bestop own this issue.
Some also say tucking the seal can lead to leaks. It's designed to be how it is from the factory, another ding against Bestop/Jeep.
My JT is only 3 months old, it's their problem.

I think it is fair to say that there is a difference of opinion on "flap up...or flap down".
All I can say is...on my '24 JL, when I installed the Sunrider Flap down, it would not seal...I got rain leakage and wind noise. I reviewed numerous videos that led me to the conclusion that I had to go flap up (or tucked). After that, the Sunrider fit perfectly...no wind noise...and no leakage.
Seems like one of the Jeep rules on this forum is "you do you". I believe in that...and for me it is flap tucked.

Oh....and also....when I went flap down, the flap was getting crushed by the door.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Do you want this fixed? My impression after the last few posts is you’re more interested in being pissed off.

Want it fixed. That's why I'm following through. I got it, want to use it, and want it to fit properly.
Not pissed off - you haven't seen that. I'm FRUSTRATED over the lack of anything but "it shouldn't fit like that" - with no other help for the dealership, no suggestions.
Frustration.
From Bestop - "you shouldn't tuck the seals". But I HAVE to.
"No, it shouldn't fit like that" But it DOES.
OK................ uh, then - what now?

Maybe Jeep screwed up and didn’t realize their new seals wouldn’t work with an accessory like this, and just threw it on the build without thinking.

Frustration at people who know answers but are not speaking up.
Not anger - frustration. I see the problem, as do some others.

This isn't a seal problem - the freedom panels work perfectly. The fit of the panels hasn't changed a bit (we do know that now)

We know for a fact it's a sunrider fitment issue - why? Because it rubs on the top of the door, unlike the freedom panels. It's a design issue, not a seal issue. the freedom panels fit perfectly with an even gap, the sunrider takes a dive at the front.
Absolutely not a seal issue - hands on, looking at many photos, looking at other Jeeps with the freedom panels in and the seals laying perfectly - that's how the sunrider SHOULD fit, but doesn't.

You could actually put these seals on prior year Jeeps (and in fact, the TSB shows some of the later seals being put in the 2020 models, for example.

The dealer is getting no help from anyone so they have to order new units, wait for one to arrive, I drive out there all over again, they try it, and see how it goes.
This could go on for months, if they find another that doesn't fit.

IDEALLY, Bestop would work with the dealer with some suggestions.
It's not up to me to fix it so don't make me wait on the phone - a phone call can't fix this, there's no adjustment to any part of these.
But then, I can see Bestop wanting for Jeep to handle it since Jeep sold it and made the profit - Bestop gets little out of it. So it makes sense for them to not spend a lot of time. I get that.

I really feel sorry for the dealership's shop people. They have to order $1,000 units (500 for them?), make another appointment when it comes in, I drive back, they try that one, and go from there. If the one that's coming in doesn't fit right - then what?
Well, then I really push Jeep (and advise Bestop with a copy of the message to JeepCares so that are AWARE. It's only polite to let them know IF a second one doesn't fit.

My thing is - someone out there knows.................
Frustration, not anger.
I guess it comes from learning extremely fast, pattern recognition being near the top, puzzle solving. I get impatient when people can't see the patterns.
Fix this - it's a known issue. Keep up, people! LOL

Just heard from dealer. They were very surprised the top will be in later this week, so it's back out there on Tuesday (LOL, everything happens on Tuesdays!)

Mine's Bestop. I'm not quite sure how you can seal against a foam gasket without leaving a mark.

So it's across both branded tops. I was really hoping this was totally a Jeep branded top thing but then other photos and complaints out there prove it's not - some Bestop branded units don't fit worth a crap either.

Yes, you can seal without leaving a mark. The freedom panels on hundreds of thousands of Jeeps do it fine. Those seals are out there on Wranglers and Gladiators all over the world. You don't get cut seals with freedom panels.
Mine had NO MARKS before the sunrider. Others have posted pictures showing the same wear only with the sunrider. The sunrider is way too close to the top of the door, way too close and crushes the seal, rubbing and cutting it.

There are many sunrider owners who can show that it fits well and does NOT push those seals down like that - look back at the pictures.

Freedom panels don't shove the mucket down hard like that. They fit nice and parallel to the top of the door.

Check the gap at the door top edge between the drip rail on a freedom panel vs a sunrider.
The freedom panel in place, that gap is all but perfectly parallel front to back.
Sunrider in place, there's no gap at the front, large gap at the rear.

But phrases like “another ding against”, are just likely to alienate people. If you want this over and don’t care to be part of the resolution, return the sunrider to the Jeep dealer, and get some money back. Put your freedom tops back on and move on.

So you'd do that with any Jeep accessory you wanted to use?
This is a known issue out there - there's dozens of posts all over the internet showing poor fit. There are also many posts showing a perfect fit with a parallel gap and the sunrider not pressing on the seals at all (even these later ones)
They know about it.

I'm gathering information here - and so far, it's a case of "most fit fine, but quite a few have problems". It's not on the customer to fix a faulty design, or manufacturing issue.
Bestop has said - 'don't tuck the seals' and - 'it shouldn't fit like that.'

OK, if i'm not to tuck the seals - they told me not to, and it shouldn't fit like that (but it DOES) - and there's zero adjustment, nothing a customer can do to resolve it........... what then?

 

[WILDHOBO]

Want it fixed. That's why I'm following through. I got it, want to use it, and want it to fit properly.
Not pissed off - you haven't seen that. I'm FRUSTRATED over the lack of anything but "it shouldn't fit like that" - with no other help for the dealership, no suggestions.
Frustration.
From Bestop - "you shouldn't tuck the seals". But I HAVE to.
"No, it shouldn't fit like that" But it DOES.
OK................ uh, then - what now?


Frustration at people who know answers but are not speaking up.
Not anger - frustration. I see the problem, as do some others.

This isn't a seal problem - the freedom panels work perfectly. The fit of the panels hasn't changed a bit (we do know that now)

We know for a fact it's a sunrider fitment issue - why? Because it rubs on the top of the door, unlike the freedom panels. It's a design issue, not a seal issue. the freedom panels fit perfectly with an even gap, the sunrider takes a dive at the front.
Absolutely not a seal issue - hands on, looking at many photos, looking at other Jeeps with the freedom panels in and the seals laying perfectly - that's how the sunrider SHOULD fit, but doesn't.

You could actually put these seals on prior year Jeeps (and in fact, the TSB shows some of the later seals being put in the 2020 models, for example.

The dealer is getting no help from anyone so they have to order new units, wait for one to arrive, I drive out there all over again, they try it, and see how it goes.
This could go on for months, if they find another that doesn't fit.

IDEALLY, Bestop would work with the dealer with some suggestions.
It's not up to me to fix it so don't make me wait on the phone - a phone call can't fix this, there's no adjustment to any part of these.
But then, I can see Bestop wanting for Jeep to handle it since Jeep sold it and made the profit - Bestop gets little out of it. So it makes sense for them to not spend a lot of time. I get that.

I really feel sorry for the dealership's shop people. They have to order $1,000 units (500 for them?), make another appointment when it comes in, I drive back, they try that one, and go from there. If the one that's coming in doesn't fit right - then what?
Well, then I really push Jeep (and advise Bestop with a copy of the message to JeepCares so that are AWARE. It's only polite to let them know IF a second one doesn't fit.

My thing is - someone out there knows.................
Frustration, not anger.
I guess it comes from learning extremely fast, pattern recognition being near the top, puzzle solving. I get impatient when people can't see the patterns.
Fix this - it's a known issue. Keep up, people! LOL

Just heard from dealer. They were very surprised the top will be in later this week, so it's back out there on Tuesday (LOL, everything happens on Tuesdays!)


So it's across both branded tops. I was really hoping this was totally a Jeep branded top thing but then other photos and complaints out there prove it's not - some Bestop branded units don't fit worth a crap either.

Yes, you can seal without leaving a mark. The freedom panels on hundreds of thousands of Jeeps do it fine. Those seals are out there on Wranglers and Gladiators all over the world. You don't get cut seals with freedom panels.
Mine had NO MARKS before the sunrider. Others have posted pictures showing the same wear only with the sunrider. The sunrider is way too close to the top of the door, way too close and crushes the seal, rubbing and cutting it.

There are many sunrider owners who can show that it fits well and does NOT push those seals down like that - look back at the pictures.

Freedom panels don't shove the mucket down hard like that. They fit nice and parallel to the top of the door.

Check the gap at the door top edge between the drip rail on a freedom panel vs a sunrider.
The freedom panel in place, that gap is all but perfectly parallel front to back.
Sunrider in place, there's no gap at the front, large gap at the rear.



So you'd do that with any Jeep accessory you wanted to use?
This is a known issue out there - there's dozens of posts all over the internet showing poor fit. There are also many posts showing a perfect fit with a parallel gap and the sunrider not pressing on the seals at all (even these later ones)
They know about it.

I'm gathering information here - and so far, it's a case of "most fit fine, but quite a few have problems". It's not on the customer to fix a faulty design, or manufacturing issue.
Bestop has said - 'don't tuck the seals' and - 'it shouldn't fit like that.'

OK, if i'm not to tuck the seals - they told me not to, and it shouldn't fit like that (but it DOES) - and there's zero adjustment, nothing a customer can do to resolve it........... what then?

I get it. I’d be frustrated too. Sorry if I got the wrong impression. I truly wish I was closer. Of If I was within 4 hours I’d happily drive there and help figure it out. For what it’s worth, mine did have a small amount of adjustment possible during the initial install. The fit wasn’t perfect the first attempt. I loosened everything while sitting on top, and messed with everything until I was happy with the alignment. After that initial setup, I remove the six total bolts to remove it assembled, and store it assembled and folded back. (Winter). I’m hoping a solution can be found asap for you. It’s such a nice smile producing accessory.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think it is fair to say that there is a difference of opinion on "flap up...or flap down".
All I can say is...on my '24 JL, when I installed the Sunrider Flap down, it would not seal...I got rain leakage and wind noise. I reviewed numerous videos that led me to the conclusion that I had to go flap up (or tucked). After that, the Sunrider fit perfectly...no wind noise...and no leakage.
Seems like one of the Jeep rules on this forum is "you do you". I believe in that...and for me it is flap tucked

Bestop said "don't tuck the seal" - said that directly. But, you have no choice in some cases.
They also said "no, it shouldn't do that".
Well, if it shouldn't do that, but it does - then the sunrider has a little problem called poor fit.

"don't tuck the seal" - "it shouldn't do that".
LOL - yeah, ok, but no solutions?
Will see what the dealer has to say next week - It will be interesting to see how another one fits.
If that one fits - great, then we can say - there's a quality control issue with how they fit (especially since many fit FINE).
If it does the same thing - then a case will be opened. (JeepCares said to contact them and a case will be assigned if the dealer can't resolve it)


This is how they SHOULD fit - also notice the whole front is a lot higher than mine sits! The whole thing across the front of the windshield sits higher. Hmmmmm.
If mine fit like this, seals PERFECTLY lined up like with the freedom panels, no pushing at all, I'd be thrilled!

Bestop says Don't tuck the seal, no pushing down on the seal.

(I wish a Bestop engineer was closer, I'd take my Jeep to them and ask them to take a look - I bet there's a lot more wrong with mine than just these seals - as another member pointed out, mine even sits wrong across the windshield header seal)

 

[WILDHOBO]

Bestop said "don't tuck the seal" - said that directly. But, you have no choice in some cases.
They also said "no, it shouldn't do that".
Well, if it shouldn't do that, but it does - then the sunrider has a little problem called poor fit.

"don't tuck the seal" - "it shouldn't do that".
LOL - yeah, ok, but no solutions?
Will see what the dealer has to say next week - It will be interesting to see how another one fits.
If that one fits - great, then we can say - there's a quality control issue with how they fit (especially since many fit FINE).
If it does the same thing - then a case will be opened. (JeepCares said to contact them and a case will be assigned if the dealer can't resolve it)


This is how they SHOULD fit - also notice the whole front is a lot higher than mine sits! The whole thing across the front of the windshield sits higher. Hmmmmm.
If mine fit like this, seals PERFECTLY lined up like with the freedom panels, no pushing at all, I'd be thrilled!

Bestop says Don't tuck the seal, no pushing down on the seal.

(I wish a Bestop engineer was closer, I'd take my Jeep to them and ask them to take a look - I bet there's a lot more wrong with mine than just these seals - as another member pointed out, mine even sits wrong across the windshield header seal)

I agree with bestop that tucking the seal will cause more issues. Is it possible that your windshield isn’t tightened down from the factory, or is too tight? Mine was totally loose from the factory. I’d be interested to see the 4 windshield bolts removed, hinge it forward a few degrees, look for issues, then rescue it and see if anything changes.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I get it. I’d be frustrated too. Sorry if I got the wrong impression. I truly wish I was closer. Of If I was within 4 hours I’d happily drive there and help figure it out. For what it’s worth, mine did have a small amount of adjustment possible during the initial install. The fit wasn’t perfect the first attempt. I loosened everything while sitting on top, and messed with everything until I was happy with the alignment. After that initial setup, I remove the six total bolts to remove it assembled, and store it assembled and folded back. (Winter). I’m hoping a solution can be found asap for you. It’s such a nice smile producing accessory.

Well, I'm actually glad you watch........... honestly. My unfiltered bluntness can come across as pure anger.
Naw, I'm not mad or angry - frustrated, yeah, a thousand dollar accessory from a company that's been doing tops for many years, and that is sold through dealers, and even comes from the factory secured in the back of the gladiator ready to install - it should be a 10 minutes drop on, bolt on, drive away thing.
Someone knows something, but - getting the correct person to talk............
And finding I'm' not the only one and Jeep owners have to HACK solutions like GRINDING on a thousand dollar product, tucking seals that Jeep spent money on R&D and all of the processes involved in changing - for a reason - saying naw, there's no reason, just tuck it! LOL - if there was no reason, we'd be running the same seals that came on the 2021 models. Jeep doesn't spend a penny unless they need to. (I bet at least 2 Jeep owners will agree with that HAHA)
If Bestop was in Iowa, I'd holler down the stairs to my wife - I'm taking a road trip, there may be quilt shops there, wanna go along?
I'd love for someone there in the know - not an office person, but one of their designers, engineers, to see this one. It just fits wrong all around.

You store yours folded back? I saved the box because it has a nice little tray that slides out. You can set the sunrider on the foam blocks, slide the tray back into the box and stand the box up and slide it into a corner. NEAT! I even made a space for it for the winter.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Well, I'm actually glad you watch........... honestly. My unfiltered bluntness can come across as pure anger.
Naw, I'm not mad or angry - frustrated, yeah, a thousand dollar accessory from a company that's been doing tops for many years, and that is sold through dealers, and even comes from the factory secured in the back of the gladiator ready to install - it should be a 10 minutes drop on, bolt on, drive away thing.
Someone knows something, but - getting the correct person to talk............
And finding I'm' not the only one and Jeep owners have to HACK solutions like GRINDING on a thousand dollar product, tucking seals that Jeep spent money on R&D and all of the processes involved in changing - for a reason - saying naw, there's no reason, just tuck it! LOL - if there was no reason, we'd be running the same seals that came on the 2021 models. Jeep doesn't spend a penny unless they need to. (I bet at least 2 Jeep owners will agree with that HAHA)
If Bestop was in Iowa, I'd holler down the stairs to my wife - I'm taking a road trip, there may be quilt shops there, wanna go along?
I'd love for someone there in the know - not an office person, but one of their designers, engineers, to see this one. It just fits wrong all around.

You store yours folded back? I saved the box because it has a nice little tray that slides out. You can set the sunrider on the foam blocks, slide the tray back into the box and stand the box up and slide it into a corner. NEAT! I even made a space for it for the winter.

I mean well. Sorry if I snapped at you. I genuinely want it to work for you. I’d do the same thing if it were me, but I’m within 75 miles of bestop. I wish I had an Iowa trip planned. But with no fluid in the front diff and no gas tank skid, it’s sitting until it’s done. I can’t believe I n d to pull smart the whole front end again after getting things the way I wanted. Oh well.

I do. I store it indoors, sitting upright as if it were on the Jeep, but folded back to reduce dust. I’ve removed and reinstalled it 3-4 rounds of late fall/spring. No issues whatsoever

 

[Main Line Willys]

I don't have a '25 so I am unable to confirm gaskets, but I was thinking about the first time I installed mine. It was tight. It has loosened up a little bit with use.

Your one picture across the top of the windshield did make it look like the top was coming up short.
I would try loosening all of the hardware and try resetting it.

Possibly your top just needed to stretch a little.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don't have a '25 so I am unable to confirm gaskets, but I was thinking about the first time I installed mine. It was tight. It has loosened up a little bit with use.

Your one picture across the top of the windshield did make it look like the top was coming up short.
I would try loosening all of the hardware and try resetting it.

Possibly your top just needed to stretch a little.

The "rear bow" is all but gone on mine.
As far as fit - I tried moving it a bit and it either sat worse in the gaskets or the bolts wouldn't then go in.
The dealership had a couple of guys working with it for over 2 hours (I really do feel for them - hope they get paid for this) and tried several things and were also unable to get it to fit even just "better" and gave up. It's not really funny, but it sort of is - they spent all of that time and didn't get anywhere, in a selfish way, made me feel a bit better - AHA, it's not just me! if you get my drift.
I didn't want to be William Shatner in that aircraft - the only one seeing the monster on the wing!

Yes, I'm picky as @#$% - and does make me feel better when I'm not the only one who can't make something fit correctly, sad as that may sound. I was glad they had trouble, but sorry that they now have to somehow find the issue and get PAID for it.

You aren't the only one who thought it didn't look quite right at the windshield header either. And it would make sense in a way, sitting too low at the front forces it down and behind that front seal, not on top of it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

posting this only to remind people of what that seal does, why it's there and how it came about - it came about because Jeep owners griped, Jeep listened, and Jeep fixed it with this seal and trough setup below.

But for some fun - picking on those who might have complained but then don't care if the sunrider interferes with the shape of this part of the seals.

I have a question for those who advocate tucking that seal up behind the sunrider rail........
Actually, for anyone who has a 2021 (I think that's the year) or earlier Gladiator or even JLU and has ever complained about opening the door to get out and getting rain dumped on your leg or into the floor of the Jeep.
Raise your hand if you have ever complained about your earlier JLU or JT dumping water on you or into the truck as you open the door to either get in or out of the Jeep.
( I could spend some time and find you - who you are - because a lot of folks here complained about the fact that when you opened a front door, you got water dumped on the floor, or on your or a passenger. It was a big topic and some came up with some stick-on solutions, and so on)
If you are one of those people who complained about the rain dumping on you, your wife, or into the floor of the Jeep and you are also saying "tuck that seal, it serves no purpose" or "it doesn't lean, so doesn't matter" - you are contradicting yourself.

Did you know that due to the many, numerous complaints, Jeep actually DID something about it? And they issued a sort of TSB for it - if you complained while it was under warranty, they replaced your windshield header seal and other parts under warranty! Free! You got the upgrade that came along on 22 and later model years.

That piece people are tucking up is what diverts water into a special trough to prevent rain from dumping on you or getting onto the seats or the floor when you opened the door after or during a rain!

Water comes off the front end of the drip rail, is diverted by that seal you want to tuck, and into the plastic channel added for the 22 model year - maybe it was 2021?

(Does anyone here have the TSB for this??)

This is a 2023 and you can see exactly how rain water would behave -

I had the TSB for the water fix and went to the dealership to see a 2022 model Gladiator to see what was different, how it looked, so I could show people here what it was and how it worked back in that year - this is new for 2022 model year. (really wish I could find that TSB!)
It catches rain water off the drip rail and diverts it into the plastic channel away from you, your leg and the inside of the Jeep.

But tuck that thing and you have just undone what Jeep did to satisfy people who were complaining about getting wet, or water dumping INSIDE the vehicle or onto your leg.
See? Water flowing forward in the drip rail will drop off the end and into the Jeep or onto you just like the 2020 and 2020 models or all years of the JL did before Jeep's mod to FIX the water dumping issue.

So I guess I just refreshed my memory, don't know why I didn't think of all of this days and days ago because I KNEW IT, I knew what it was for - but it didn't come to me until now.

With a correctly fitting sunrider, this works exactly as Jeep intended and keeps you and your interior DRY when you open the door.
When it doesn't fit - it defeats the purpose of the TSB fix (and crushes and destroys other seals)

So those who say "who cares, don't need it anyway" - think back- did you own a JL or JT model year 2021 or prior? Did you complain about getting wet or the floor or seat getting wet when you opened the door?


Looking forward to next Tuesday to see how a second one fits.

 

[Trollboogie]

It would be nice if BestTop would make some redesigned side rails that would work better with the newer seals. I would definitely purchase them. When I contacted them I was told there was no difference and it should fit fine. That there was something wrong with the seals on my new JT. Funny how the freedom pannels work just fine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It would be nice if BestTop would make some redesigned side rails that would work better with the newer seals. I would definitely purchase them. When I contacted them I was told there was no difference and it should fit fine. That there was something wrong with the seals on my new JT. Funny how the freedom pannels work just fine.

Sorry, Bestop, there's nothing wrong with our seals.
They work perfectly with the factory roof parts.
If the sunrider fit in the same place, the same profile, as the panels, we'd be at 100% fine.
But they don't.

Mine is also really pulled down into the windshield header seal. It really crushes it. So if it was only the seals, then it would fit properly at the windshield. It does not. If it was only the seals, it wouldn't be just about to the point of rubbing on the door.

Technically, the 2020 version of the sunrider should fit fine because nothing at all changed about the Jeep -freedom panels are the same, everything else is the same, but SOME of the sunriders, some, not all, just sit too far down.

So i'm hoping my dealer will keep ordering them until I get one that fits LOL

Looks to me to be sort of a roll of the dice if you get one that fits properly.
Will find out more next week, hopefully.

Too bad they don't even have one with a new Jeep, neither does their sister location.
They just don't sell them here.

Otherwise the guy said they'd pull one off the lot to try.

 

[Charles 236]

Hang in there, once the dealership get it sorted out it will be worth it. I wish I could give you some "fix" for it. Since it is a Jeep branded accessory, Jeep should be able to make it right. When you pointed out the effort it took to install it, it seemed that was an unusual amount of work. The first Sunrider that I installed took me about ten minutes, it literally took longer to pull off and bag the Freedom Panels than to install the Sunrider.

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