Synthetic oil

[ACAD_Cowboy]

So the remanufactured wolfshead I can get on sale is no good? but the guy swore to me it's the best.

For me I've been running either the 0w20 or 5w30 Mobil 1 from costco, 80k+ in some horrible conditions like full throttle in low 1st with poor airflow. It may have been 12* outside but it was toasty warm under my hood.

Sponsored

 

[Jeeperjamie]

I use clean oil, changed on time that meets the spec.

Brand ? Who cares.

Synthetic? I believe that is the only thing that meets the spec. Could be wrong ?

Amsoil ? Yeah probably good stuff. This is an old school low tech low compression engine. Do I need it ? Meh ...

If you use clean oil, in spec, on time, the engine will still be running long after you are in another vehicle.

If the expensive nectar of the gods makes you sleep better, go for it.

This, It's all pretty much the same as long as it meets the specs.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I use clean oil, changed on time that meets the spec.

1. Brand ? Who cares.

2. Synthetic? I believe that is the only thing that meets the spec. Could be wrong ?

3. Amsoil ? Yeah probably good stuff. This is an old school low tech low compression engine. Do I need it ? Meh ...

4. If you use clean oil, in spec, on time, the engine will still be running long after you are in another vehicle.

If the expensive nectar of the gods makes you sleep better, go for it.

1. I care sort of - I look for the highest rated oils that meet my needs. They aren't all the same. That's been proven by engineer's testing, etc.

2. Naw, non-synthetic may meet the specs as well. The specs are more about the additive package, not the base oil. I'd bet there's a good non-synthetic that would beat some of the synthetics that matches the specs.

3. Amsoil is highly rated - depending on the oil from AMSOIL it may more than beet the specs. Well, old school flat tappet engines do require good oil - compression doesn't really matter for oils.

4. My Eagle has 193,000 miles on the car, the engine about 133,000 miles on some of the parts (I salvaged the engine from an abused Jeep). Since I plan on keeping the car forever and a day, I'll run the best oil possible in it.

For me I've been running either the 0w20 or 5w30 Mobil 1 from costco

That's another really good oil - I've been running Mobil 1 in my SX4's 4.0 since I first put it together. It was the first oil and each oil change since.

 

[MrZappo]

1. I care sort of - I look for the highest rated oils that meet my needs. They aren't all the same. That's been proven by engineer's testing, etc.

2. Naw, non-synthetic may meet the specs as well. The specs are more about the additive package, not the base oil. I'd bet there's a good non-synthetic that would beat some of the synthetics that matches the specs.

3. Amsoil is highly rated - depending on the oil from AMSOIL it may more than beet the specs. Well, old school flat tappet engines do require good oil - compression doesn't really matter for oils.

4. My Eagle has 193,000 miles on the car, the engine about 133,000 miles on some of the parts (I salvaged the engine from an abused Jeep). Since I plan on keeping the car forever and a day, I'll run the best oil possible in it.



That's another really good oil - I've been running Mobil 1 in my SX4's 4.0 since I first put it together. It was the first oil and each oil change since.

Yeah, agree in principle with all of this. And I typically run the best oil possible within reason in all my vehicles.

As of now I'm running Pennzoil ultra platinum in the Jeep as it is (what I heard) was factory fill. I can get it at Wally world for about $25 for 5 quarts. Exact measurement (bonus). And I use a Mopar filter.

So maybe $35 per change with filter. Generally changed when the truck says 25% life left.

So, the crazy maintenance guys have nothing on me as I am one of them.

I just like pointing out that the religious oil folks tend to be unreasonable at times. It's not a race car, it's not a high rpm or high horsepower application. It will do fine on quality oil non brand specific that meets the spec.

As far as oils that exceed the spec, well, great. Is it needed ? Technically no. Will it help ? Well, maybe but not enough to get my money.

And amsoil is an easy target as "amsoil guys" (some) are a true believers. A bit to over the top in my eyes. But as I said, go for it if it makes you happy. But I'm a $35 oil change guy.

When someone can point to data that proves double be the engine life maybe I'll switch. Maybe not.

Going on my 3rd IPA and got roped into an oil thread.

Expect my responses to grow more "colorful" from here on.

 

[foo.c]

This is an old school low tech low compression engine. Do I need it ? Meh ...

Did you swap in a motor from the 80's or something?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Did you swap in a motor from the 80's or something?

LOL - not sure what world a VVT VVL 11.3 static compression ratio is low tech ;-)
Ya know, there's been talk of the 4.0 in another thread here.........you don't think someone actually did it?

 

[MrZappo]

Did you swap in a motor from the 80's or something?

Alright I'll take the abuse.

I'm pointing out that it is not a turbo charged direct injection engine etc etc. It has a relatively low redline. It's tuned rather tame etc etc.

Compared to a lot of engines it is likely not very hard on oil.

Yes it has a few modern doo dads.

I've not t heard that pentastars are hard on oil. Of course I'm old and losing it. So please stop me if I'm totally off base here.

Now, what were we talking about ?

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

You say that until your coolant is cresting 250 and your maxing it out in low range.

These engines are fairly loose clearance wise to aid in oil flow and drain back in the name of boosting CAFE numbers.

In a race engine where all your crank bores are colinear and all the specs are tight, it's easier on the oil than "sloppy" street engine where everything is bouncing around.

The expected oil consumption is a little unsettling at first, I came from engines that didnt eat a pint over 5k and now to find out that a quart is just fine and dare I say, normal, well it makes me wonder what my plugs look like. All I do is wonder though, 80k and honestly haven't touched them once. So bonuses in design right?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You say that until your coolant is cresting 250 and your maxing it out in low range.

These engines are fairly loose clearance wise to aid in oil flow and drain back in the name of boosting CAFE numbers.

In a race engine where all your crank bores are colinear and all the specs are tight, it's easier on the oil than "sloppy" street engine where everything is bouncing around.

The expected oil consumption is a little unsettling at first, I came from engines that didnt eat a pint over 5k and now to find out that a quart is just fine and dare I say, normal, well it makes me wonder what my plugs look like. All I do is wonder though, 80k and honestly haven't touched them once. So bonuses in design right?

Mine has gone a few thousand miles and isn't down at all. Still at the top mark on the stick. I know the diesels used in these are prone to oil consumption in the first few thousand miles - but mine has never dropped even a pint between changes.
I can't see these being "loose" with the low viscosity oil they use - and the VVL and VVT require some pretty tight tolerances.
Being an open deck engine, these are pretty tight spec engines.
In my experience, loose tolerances aren't required to make them spin easy - the last two I built I went to the bottom side of clearance and could still turn them by hand. The oil viscosity has a lot more to do with how easy they spin and turn than being tight on clearances.
Oil sheer...........
When clearances are too snug, it's harder on the oil because it gets hotter due to the sheer forces. Open clearances are easier on the oil and heat it less. Sheer forces cause friction internally within the oil and cause it to heat. Open things up and there's less of that, the oil runs cooler with less sheer.

 

[Litfuse]

Alright I'll take the abuse.

I'm pointing out that it is not a turbo charged direct injection engine etc etc. It has a relatively low redline. It's tuned rather tame etc etc.

Compared to a lot of engines it is likely not very hard on oil.

Yes it has a few modern doo dads.

I've not t heard that pentastars are hard on oil. Of course I'm old and losing it. So please stop me if I'm totally off base here.

Now, what were we talking about ?

No, you are right. It is a modern engine, but not as complex as many of the motors coming out in even fairly “pedestrian” cars. High compression doesn’t mean it’s complex.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No, you are right. It is a modern engine, but not as complex as many of the motors coming out in even fairly “pedestrian” cars. High compression doesn’t mean it’s complex.

Mercedes engines are complex - and include variable size intake runners controlled with oil pressure (like VVT and VVL are in the Pentastar)
Mercedes has used variable size intakes for years.
But the Pentastar is far from simple.
I suppose one has to define "complex" and "simple". this 2nd gen is far from simple.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Mine has gone a few thousand miles and isn't down at all. Still at the top mark on the stick. I know the diesels used in these are prone to oil consumption in the first few thousand miles - but mine has never dropped even a pint between changes.
I can't see these being "loose" with the low viscosity oil they use - and the VVL and VVT require some pretty tight tolerances.
Being an open deck engine, these are pretty tight spec engines.
In my experience, loose tolerances aren't required to make them spin easy - the last two I built I went to the bottom side of clearance and could still turn them by hand. The oil viscosity has a lot more to do with how easy they spin and turn than being tight on clearances.
Oil sheer...........
When clearances are too snug, it's harder on the oil because it gets hotter due to the sheer forces. Open clearances are easier on the oil and heat it less. Sheer forces cause friction internally within the oil and cause it to heat. Open things up and there's less of that, the oil runs cooler with less sheer.

Loose in this case is in relation to tight race engines not "loose" like a mid 70's GM mill.

As for consumption, I'm on a pretty routine 6 in 5 out schedule at 5000 miles on my JKU. The manual discuss that up to a quart per change is "acceptable" with more consumption being seen at higher sustained rpm usage, which they define at more than 3000rpm.

So if you are gentle and shift short and never ever give it the mustard you'd beat your oil to death with short cold trips, lots of water and acid development and probably a lot of fuel fouling. But if you treat it like a rented mule it will drink oil. No winning.

That said, given the options of v8'ish power, good durability and good power to weight, I would take this V6 over nearly any other for the application.

And just to tie a bow on this, in a pinch, say you mashed open the oil pan on the trail and managed to get it patched up, any oil is the perfect oil when you need to get home. Raise you hand if you've ever poured pennzoil straight 50 in because that what you could find. That old 258 put up with some abuse.

 

[Litfuse]

Loose in this case is in relation to tight race engines not "loose" like a mid 70's GM mill.

As for consumption, I'm on a pretty routine 6 in 5 out schedule at 5000 miles on my JKU. The manual discuss that up to a quart per change is "acceptable" with more consumption being seen at higher sustained rpm usage, which they define at more than 3000rpm.

So if you are gentle and shift short and never ever give it the mustard you'd beat your oil to death with short cold trips, lots of water and acid development and probably a lot of fuel fouling. But if you treat it like a rented mule it will drink oil. No winning.

That said, given the options of v8'ish power, good durability and good power to weight, I would take this V6 over nearly any other for the application.

And just to tie a bow on this, in a pinch, say you mashed open the oil pan on the trail and managed to get it patched up, any oil is the perfect oil when you need to get home. Raise you hand if you've ever poured pennzoil straight 50 in because that what you could find. That old 258 put up with some abuse.

Lol. I’ve seen guys pee in transfer cases to get back off the trail. I too put my fair share of heavy weight oil in my 258 to top her off.

 

[foo.c]

Lol. I’ve seen guys pee in transfer cases to get back off the trail. I too put my fair share of heavy weight oil in my 258 to top her off.

I can't even get my finger there.

 

[mazeppa]

Change oil at home on my time frame.

$ 24.37 : 5 Quart 0W-20 Mobil 1 Extended Performance synthetic oil
$ 9.97 : Mobil 1 M1C-456A oil filter

Sponsored