Unintentional paint test

[sharpsicle]

There's also always the "what if" like we saw a couple of days ago - leaving a gas station, vehicle ahead of us tossed cigarette out the window. You could still see the glow as it hit the pavement.

That's less of a concern than you might think. Studies have shown cigarettes are such a low energy source that they cannot ignite gasoline themselves. Still never looks good, but it won't do what you see in movies.

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[ShadowsPapa]

That's less of a concern than you might think. Studies have shown cigarettes are such a low energy source that they cannot ignite gasoline themselves. Still never looks good, but it won't do what you see in movies.

I wouldn't say "cannot" - just not likely.
Even mythbusters had this to say -

It is possible to ignite a pool of gasoline using only a cigarette.
PARTLY PLAUSIBLE

A cigarette has the potential to light a pool of gasoline but just doesn’t have enough sustained heat. Gas ignites between 500 °F and 540 °F, the cigarette at its hottest was between 450 °F and 500 °F but only when it was actually being smoked. An ignition is very improbable.

(but other sources measured the middle of the lit portion at 580 when NOT being drawn)

And another resource -

well Mythbusters as great as they are may have got it slightly wrong here. For gasoline to ignite it needs some of it to vaporize (become a gas) and then an ignition source to light this. Tests have been carried out and people have found that sometimes is does ignite and sometimes it doesn't. There are too many variables to know when it will or wont. If it is breezy then all the fumes from the gasoline may be swept away before it reaches the ignition source.

And finally from a physics site that tested it all -

We performed a series of experiments in order to determine the actual temperature of the lit cigarette. Here are the results for the temperature at different locations and under different conditions:

Temperature without drawing:
Side of the lit portion: 400 deg C (or 752 deg F)
Middle of the lit portion: 580 deg C (or 1112 deg F)

Temperature during drawing:
Middle of the lit portion: 700 deg C (or 1292 deg F)

The above numbers represent the average we obtained by performing several trials and can be considered accurate to within 50 deg C. A standard Fe-CuNi digital thermocouple thermometer was used in all trials.

The Autoignition Temperature of a standard unleaded gasoline can be anywhere from 260 to 460 degrees C (or 500 to 860 deg F) as quoted on the FAQ: Automotive Gasoline Web Page by Bruce Hamilton (this page is also an excellent and accurate resource about the science of gasoline)

However, It is important to realize that the gasoline vapour has a much lower autoignition temperature than the gasoline itself. Namely, if you spill gasoline on a hot road (say in the hot summer day) you will be able to ignite gasoline by contact with a cigarette easily, just because of the gasoline vapour layer that would be produced above the surface of the gasoline.

So for all of you smokers out there that are wondering why you are not allowed to smoke at gas pump stations, these are the real scientific reasons.
---------------------------
So they are saying that if conditions are right, it's absolutely possible. They've done tests.

One must also take into account ETHANOL. It's lighter.

 

[sharpsicle]

"One particular study attempted over 2,000 different scenarios and situations where gasoline and a lit cigarette could interact, and not a single attempt resulted in the gasoline catching on fire."

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/can-cigarette-ignite-light-puddle-gasoline-fire.html

"Researchers tried to ignite gasoline 4500 times with a lit cigarette and failed 100% of the time."

https://steemit.com/science/@observ...mpts-a-lit-cigarette-will-not-ignite-gasoline

"Thirty nine (39) ignition attempts that involved exposing lit commercial cigarettes, hand-rolled cigarettes and cannabis resin joints to petrol vapour were undertaken; ignition was not achieved in any of the scenarios."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21605828/

No need to spread misinformation. It's been tested, and it doesn't occur. There are practical, repeatable, peer-reviewed experiments that show that despite the math you quoted, it doesn't happen. You can explain a theory all you want, but if it doesn't happen in reality then it's not a workable theory.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

"One particular study attempted over 2,000 different scenarios and situations where gasoline and a lit cigarette could interact, and not a single attempt resulted in the gasoline catching on fire."

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/can-cigarette-ignite-light-puddle-gasoline-fire.html

"Researchers tried to ignite gasoline 4500 times with a lit cigarette and failed 100% of the time."

https://steemit.com/science/@observ...mpts-a-lit-cigarette-will-not-ignite-gasoline

"Thirty nine (39) ignition attempts that involved exposing lit commercial cigarettes, hand-rolled cigarettes and cannabis resin joints to petrol vapour were undertaken; ignition was not achieved in any of the scenarios."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21605828/

No need to spread misinformation. It's been tested, and it doesn't occur.

I wasn't spreading misinformation, I was quoting mythbusters and science sites.
You quotes science sites - I found a few myself, valid physics and science.
So now you say physics and science sites are misinformation?
That's funny - you quote science sites and it's fact. I quote science sites - not forums, not fakebook, not twitter, but actual science sites that have undertaken studies and it's misinformation if I find sites that contradict your sites?
I guess it's science depending on the sites you quote and your point of view.
I'd like to know - when, and was ethanol involved or pure gasoline?

BTW - ya left out some content -
>>The variables of gasoline vapor, airflow, temperature of the cigarette are all difficult to calculate, but the probability is extremely low that you will go up in flames because you tossed a cigarette butt in a pool of gasoline.<<

Conclusion was: extremely low - (but not impossible)
Other quotes indicate that while extremely low, it was never deemed not possible. That's all I was saying - not likely, extremely low, but no one has said impossible or can't happen.
Another quote from your links indicated similar - there were reasons seen why their testing failed.

 

[sharpsicle]

I wasn't spreading misinformation, I was quoting mythbusters and science sites.
You quotes science sites - I found a few myself, valid physics and science.
So now you say physics and science sites are misinformation?
That's funny - you quote science sites and it's fact. I quote science sites - not forums, not fakebook, not twitter, but actual science sites that have undertaken studies and it's misinformation if I find sites that contradict your sites?
I guess it's science depending on the sites you quote and your point of view.
I'd like to know - when, and was ethanol involved or pure gasoline?

No, not at all. You quoted theory. I provided links to actual experiments. As I said, the theory can say it will happen, but if the actual tests don't produce those results, then that theory is not workable. This is one of the most common pieces of misinformation out there. Thats all.

 

[NachoRuby]

Whether gasoline is involved or not, there are plenty of other reasons not to toss cigarette butts out the window.

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/02/11/fort-collins-wildfire-caused-by-cigarette-butt-officials-say/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/10/19/vaca-fire-lit-cigarette-butts-caused-chaotic-blaze/

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...8QFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw2fKdLY6NpH2b5FxYuDQV4U

 

[ShadowsPapa]

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/gw...e-gwinnett-county/QL6OSOKOARGDXIVTQJUMMRMR6M/

Fire investigators are full of crap.

 

[sharpsicle]

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/gw...e-gwinnett-county/QL6OSOKOARGDXIVTQJUMMRMR6M/

Fire investigators are full of crap.

Of course lighting cigarettes in a car with gas fumes is going to cause problems. It's also a completely different scenario than we've been talking about.

...vehicle ahead of us tossed cigarette out the window. You could still see the glow as it hit the pavement...

Flicking a cigarette out the window won't light the gas station on fire. Blues Brothers isn't how reality works.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Also a completely different scenario than we've been talking about.

It was a cigarette. It was gasoline fumes (you can't even light liquid gas with a match)

Were we talking cigarettes - or an idle cigarette laying unsmoked but lit?

Timing is everything.
After a couple of seconds a cigarette end is covered in ashes and the fire cools. It is then too "cool" to ignite much at all.

Too close to the gas, the fumes are "too rich".

Looking close at the video, it appears the one guy's hand is moving downward near the nozzle - if that's what I think I am seeing it wasn't an active puff....... was the cigarette in his hand? The fire didn't start up at his face.

https://www.kxan.com/news/watch-cigarette-sparks-gas-pump-fire/

https://www.fox13news.com/news/watch-cigarette-sparks-arkansas-gas-pump-fire

 

[sharpsicle]

Again, not what we were talking about. We were talking about a thrown cigarette lighting gasoline on fire.

Don't cloud the waters with anecdotal evidence that isn't what you were referring to.

...vehicle ahead of us tossed cigarette out the window. You could still see the glow as it hit the pavement...

Hell, those videos could have had the fire start from static discharge when his hand got close enough to the metal. Problem is nobody knows, and the testing as linked above doesn't support the cigarette acting alone in ignition.

 

[redrider]

Station owners do not want their employees to call authorities in case of a spill. The site would be shut down during the cleanup and possibly during the EPA Environmental Impact Investigation. Training procedures would be scrutinized. Loss of revenue and possible fines. Probably not prudent to name names sooo ....
I was at a major truck stop mega world off I95. One of the in tank pumps energized with an open 2 inch pipe under the dispenser. Several hundred gallons of gasoline flooded the area. The on site maintenance person shows up with the pressure washer and proceeds to light the burner for the hot water feature. You know, that 55 gallon drum sized forced air burner that shoots flames upward. I dove for the burner off switch while the moron continued to wash the fuel into the storm drain.

 

[SargeDiesel]

whether or not it would hurt the paint isn't the real issue - the real issue is a total safety thing - so many what-ifs there, I'd be all over that company. I'd be contacting the higher-ups, get that idiot's ass fired at the very least and get some free car washes from the outfit that owns that place. What if there had been some source of ignition, something hot and so on.
What I see here are a lot of "no harm, no foul" responses - not the case. Gas all over a truck, harming paint today or not, isn't the issue. (it will harm paint with time - just not "right now" and not an occasional exposure - my other trucks were proof of that)
That one incident alone would be enough for me to never buy there again, and tell management exactly why - and even go further as far as reporting a safety hazard.
No harm, no foul on such things don't play well with me.
That could have been a serious issue with gas in your face, eyes and more.

Your paint will likely survive (not so much the wax job) but the rest is bull shit.

I can just think of my wife or daughter-in-law or my son who has only one eye anyway thanks to a mugging by two asses who were never caught (not that anyone tried) getting sprayed in the face/eyes. Sorry, but this is one of those cases where employees need to lose jobs and management needs to be fined.
Guys - think of your wife/kids having that experience and getting it in the face. Maybe the "no harm/no foul" attitude would change.

I agree 100%, I'm sorry about your son.

 

[SargeDiesel]

That's less of a concern than you might think. Studies have shown cigarettes are such a low energy source that they cannot ignite gasoline themselves. Still never looks good, but it won't do what you see in movies.

I've seen cigarettes flicked into puddles/containers of gas.... it put the cig out.

 

[SargeDiesel]

"One particular study attempted over 2,000 different scenarios and situations where gasoline and a lit cigarette could interact, and not a single attempt resulted in the gasoline catching on fire."

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/can-cigarette-ignite-light-puddle-gasoline-fire.html

"Researchers tried to ignite gasoline 4500 times with a lit cigarette and failed 100% of the time."

https://steemit.com/science/@observ...mpts-a-lit-cigarette-will-not-ignite-gasoline

"Thirty nine (39) ignition attempts that involved exposing lit commercial cigarettes, hand-rolled cigarettes and cannabis resin joints to petrol vapour were undertaken; ignition was not achieved in any of the scenarios."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21605828/

No need to spread misinformation. It's been tested, and it doesn't occur. There are practical, repeatable, peer-reviewed experiments that show that despite the math you quoted, it doesn't happen. You can explain a theory all you want, but if it doesn't happen in reality then it's not a workable theory.

that a lot of wasted cigarettes ! ha ha

 

[AZCooWhip]

What do you expect for $20 a hour?

Your paint should be ok. Hopefully you gave it a good washing real quick.

The dipshit attendant .....no hope.

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