So what about those factory V8 Gladiator rumors?

[Jteakus]

Ventilated seats would be nice.

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[Pedal Metal]

The tt v6 isn't a real advancement of the internal combustion engine, it's just stellantis joining the party. Ford's been pushing turbos for over a decade now, and euro for even longer. The ICE really is at peak performance right now short of going to truly exotic materials to try to squeeze out a few percentage points more of efficiency.

Also, lithium is finite but recyclable. When the battery is at the end of it's life, all the precious metals and elements can be recycled in to a new battery, just takes energy and processing.

I've had a ton of really fast cars with v8s, but once I drove my uncle's tesla once there was no question where the performance future was. The power and torque are mind blowing, it's just infrastructure holding it back.

Well, you might want to start at it being an I6 not a v6, because it is inline. I’m not an engineer, but I have invested a bit of time into learning about it and there is a newer cylinder iron on aluminum fusion technology that they’re using to lighten and reduce size, turbo integration into the engine (which I previously heard about) and direct injection. I would point to those few known things as real advancements and more than just a bolt on turbo onto a v6 or I6 in this case. I frankly don’t really want a turbo as I’d rather just have more displacement to better engage the horsepower and torque earlier in the call for power before the lag of the boost. Speaking from experience, I’ve had a ford 3.5 eco and currently have an alder blown 350. So, I’m a bit aware of a few alternative preferences and the seat experience. That’s why I started this thread as I’d simply like to have a V8 gladiator to enjoy in the hear and now as a daily driver. As well, I would further define my enjoyment as a turn key owner of a daily driver that does not require a lease or subscription for service or usage.
In terms of it just takes infrastructure, well that’s going to be far off coming and a huge expense to make that a turnkey solution for urban areas were people park on the street, at apartments and an untold number of high or impractical transition costs scenarios that won‘t work for the masses. Keep in mind, I said masses and not myself, because I have resources (a lot). I’m just being empathetic for the many that don’t have what I have. However, more to the point, I don’t care to really discuss any of that, because I really only care about are rumors about the possibility of a v8 in a Gladiator. Hence, the title to this thread.

 

[bleda2002]

Well, you might want to start at it being an I6 not a v6, because it is inline. I’m not an engineer, but I have invested a bit of time into learning about it and there is a newer cylinder iron on aluminum fusion technology that they’re using to lighten and reduce size, turbo integration into the engine (which I previously heard about) and direct injection. I would point to those few known things as real advancements and more than just a bolt on turbo onto a v6 or I6 in this case. I frankly don’t really want a turbo as I’d rather just have more displacement to better engage the horsepower and torque earlier in the call for power before the lag of the boost. Speaking from experience, I’ve had a ford 3.5 eco and currently have an alder blown 350. So, I’m a bit aware of a few alternative preferences and the seat experience. That’s why I started this thread as I’d simply like to have a V8 gladiator to enjoy in the hear and now as a daily driver. As well, I would further define my enjoyment as a turn key owner of a daily driver that does not require a lease or subscription for service or usage.
In terms of it just takes infrastructure, well that’s going to be far off coming and a huge expense to make that a turnkey solution for urban areas were people park on the street, at apartments and an untold number of high or impractical transition costs scenarios that won‘t work for the masses. Keep in mind, I said masses and not myself, because I have resources (a lot). I’m just being empathetic for the many that don’t have what I have. However, more to the point, I don’t care to really discuss any of that, because I really only care about are rumors about the possibility of a v8 in a Gladiator. Hence, the title to this thread.

Sorry you are right, i6. That said the new i6 is still just stellantis playing catch-up. It's not making more horse power per displacement or being anymore efficient than turbo'd 6s from a few years ago. The liners, the direct injection, even the novel packaging aren't some leap in technology just applying what already exists.

If you want a big gladiator, save 30k get a hemi or ls swap, that's the only way it's happening at this point.

 

[Pedal Metal]

If you want a big gladiator, save 30k get a hemi or ls swap, that's the only way it's happening at this point.

Yeah, that’s certainly an option, but I’ll pass on the swap option at this point. I just can’t help but wonder if Jeep might pull a card out of their sleeve and drop a v8 just to make some market news against what appears to be midsized truck market excitement around other manufacturers. I understand that there are a lot of forces against it, but who knows, because Jeep certainly likes to make a splash.

 

[onewhippedpuppy]

The tt v6 isn't a real advancement of the internal combustion engine, it's just stellantis joining the party. Ford's been pushing turbos for over a decade now, and euro for even longer. The ICE really is at peak performance right now short of going to truly exotic materials to try to squeeze out a few percentage points more of efficiency.

Also, lithium is finite but recyclable. When the battery is at the end of it's life, all the precious metals and elements can be recycled in to a new battery, just takes energy and processing.

I've had a ton of really fast cars with v8s, but once I drove my uncle's tesla once there was no question where the performance future was. The power and torque are mind blowing, it's just infrastructure holding it back.

You are missing a few pieces of the puzzle I’m afraid. Infrastructure is lacking but the reason that batteries can’t be charged more quickly is the battery technology itself. Heat kills batteries, and controlling heat during charging is a limiting factor in charging speed. It’s why even if you find a Supercharger with your Tesla, you’re probably waiting at least 45 minutes to recharge. Imagine if refilling a gas tank took 45 minutes, every gas station would need to look like a Texas Buc-ees. The charging infrastructure to support everybody owning an EV doesn’t just need to match our current gas stations, it needs to exponentially exceed them. Not to mention that most battery pack materials are raped from the Earth by slave and child labor in third world countries, we’ll just ignore that one for the sake of being green…..

There’s also the minor issue of cost, have you priced a Tesla lately? It’s sort of like if your perpetual benchmark for the ICE engine was a Porsche 911 Turbo. I’ve driven a Tesla Model S P85D and it was stupid fast, but so is my neighbors McLaren 570S. No shock since they are both solid six figure cars. Use the Chevy Bolt as your benchmark and report back.

 

[bleda2002]

You are missing a few pieces of the puzzle I’m afraid. Infrastructure is lacking but the reason that batteries can’t be charged more quickly is the battery technology itself. Heat kills batteries, and controlling heat during charging is a limiting factor in charging speed. It’s why even if you find a Supercharger with your Tesla, you’re probably waiting at least 45 minutes to recharge. Imagine if refilling a gas tank took 45 minutes, every gas station would need to look like a Texas Buc-ees. The charging infrastructure to support everybody owning an EV doesn’t just need to match our current gas stations, it needs to exponentially exceed them. Not to mention that most battery pack materials are raped from the Earth by slave and child labor in third world countries, we’ll just ignore that one for the sake of being green…..

You can charge 0-80% in about 15 minutes at a super charger with current battery tech and Ford/gm can dump even more charge faster to their batteries if the charger can supply the current. The batteries can take it, but we need more fast chargers and more watts to plug in to.

I personally give no real shits about being green and have no real qualms about where the batteries come from. Going electric for me isnt about being green it's about massive performance increases that can only be gained through electrification and hybridization. I would love to have double or triple the power while having a cost per mile lower than a 4 banger.

Btw, don't need a 6 figure Tesla to beat the 200k McLaren, a 60k model 3 will beat it too.

 

[Hootbro]

I would love to have double or triple the power while having a cost per mile lower than a 4 banger.

To me, the EV vs. Gas debate is similar to Gas vs. Diesel. The way higher upfront costs of EV take longer to even out and be a net positive financially in the long term of vehicle ownership.

That also overlooks the big bill waiting for total battery replacement roughly around the 10 year mark if it even will be offered.

 

[Rusty PW]

Peak oil is a myth and oil is only traded as a commodity because Standard Oil led by Rockefeller had to convince the buying public it was a short term finite commodity so there could be a value attached to it to profit from.

Look up abiogenesis crude oil.

 

[dcmdon]

You can charge 0-80% in about 15 minutes at a super charger with current battery tech and Ford/gm can dump even more charge faster to their batteries if the charger can supply the current. The batteries can take it, but we need more fast chargers and more watts to plug in to.

I personally give no real shits about being green and have no real qualms about where the batteries come from. Going electric for me isnt about being green it's about massive performance increases that can only be gained through electrification and hybridization. I would love to have double or triple the power while having a cost per mile lower than a 4 banger.

Btw, don't need a 6 figure Tesla to beat the 200k McLaren, a 60k model 3 will beat it too.

You and whipped puppy agree more than you seem to. You are both on different sides of the issue.

But here are facts that I think both of you will agree with.

CURRENTLY - owning an EV can be a pain in teh ass. There are not many high speed DC charging stations around. So if you don't own a home with a charger or are taking a long trip, charging can be a chore.

CURRENTLY it takes much longer most of the time to charge than it takes to gas up an ICE powered vehicle. Even with DC Fast charging, you are talking about 30 minutes in most real world use cases. Not 10 minutes. But this will be resolved in a few years.

Currently - there aren't enough charging stations. When I stop. at a rest area on I95 or I93 on Friday night, there is a line of electric cars waiting to charge. A friend's brother waited over an hour to charge his Tesla on Thanksgiving weekend. But again, this will resolve itself as more charging stations are built and charge times come down.

If you have a home charger and don't take driving trips EVs can be more convenient than an ICE vehicle. My neighbor has a home in Europe. That's where he vacations. All his driving in his Model S is local. He plugs his car in a couple of times per week. Never has to go to the gas station and generally never thinks about fueling his car.

All of the above problems will be resolved in the next 10 years. One of the amazing things about a capitalist system is that if the market exists, companies will invest in infrastructure all on their own. No Government spending required.

EVs are quicker and faster than ICE vehicles. Sure there are some outliers. But a Tesla Model 3 Performance can do 0-60 in the low 3.1 sec and the quarter in the 11s. This is supercar territory. MSRP for this vehicle is $58k. Less than my Jeep.

 

[Rusty PW]

Question for everyone.

Who is willing to buy a used EV?

You know at some point in time. You will be faced with the possibly of replacing the battery. Batteries are almost half the cost of a new EV. What would the percentage be on a used EV? 3/4 the price of the used EV? Would it even be worth it to buy a used EV.

There is a story on the local news of a girl buying a used Ford EV. Had it for 6 months and it needed a new battery. Ford discontinued the model, and no batteries are to be had. So what do you do then?

 

[Rusty PW]

EV's maybe faster on a drag strip, but not around a road course. They are fast for the first couple of laps then start to taper off. The power drops off with the charge. Last year, I did a couple of trackdays, that someone bought their Tesla to.

 

[Fcmalie]

Question for everyone.

Who is willing to buy a used EV?

You know at some point in time. You will be faced with the possibly of replacing the battery. Batteries are almost half the cost of a new EV. What would the percentage be on a used EV? 3/4 the price of the used EV? Would it even be worth it to buy a used EV.

There is a story on the local news of a girl buying a used Ford EV. Had it for 6 months and it needed a new battery. Ford discontinued the model, and no batteries are to be had. So what do you do then?

I'm not willing to buy a used ICE vehicle out of warranty, I'll go electric with my next vehicle as long as they figure out the towing issues by then.

 

[DirkG]

I hear you guys and also have concerns that the infrastructure is not (close) to where it needs to be to support these ambitious electric strategies. But whether we like it or not, the electric train is coming.

Forbe's "Every Automaker’s EV Plans Through 2035 And Beyond", here are some examples:

• Starting in 2025, Mercedes said, all new vehicle platforms will be EV-only.
• General Motors says it plans to stop selling gas and diesel vehicles by 2035.
  • Cadillac, for example, will be all-electric by 2030 (Escalade?).
• Honda is selling only EVs and hybrids in Europe after 2022. By 2030, Honda says 40 percent of its North American vehicle sales will be either battery electric or hydrogen, and by 2040 all gas cars will be phased out.
• Stellantis is planning that 70% of its European sales, and 40% of its American, will be either battery electric or plug-in hybrid by 2025.

And of course we have states like California that are proposing to ban new car sales of ICEs by 2035. So while GM still plans on putting the 5.5L V8 in the 2023 Corvette Z06, these V8 powered vehicles will undoubtedly be collector items. And clearly it sounds like most ICEs, if they continue for a manufacturer, will be mated with some plug-in hybrid system.

 

[Teqsand]

As much as I hate to say, pretty much all V8s are dead. Electrification is the future. And not because of the "green" BS. Manufacturers aren't going EV because they're green. They're going EV because 1) they're being pushed by politicians and 2) because of the unbelievable performance and space efficiency afforded by an EV.

"...the race between the Tesla Model S P100D and McLaren 720S isn't even close. The Model S pulls off a 9.42-second quarter-mile with a trap speed of 146.86 mph. Meanwhile, the McLaren supercar finished the sprint in 10.17 seconds with a 139.50 mph trap speed." Source

That's a $130K sedan versus a $300K supercar.

The ICE has reached its pinnacle of engineering. It was one hell of a ride. But the lithium-ion battery - and the next generation of sodium-ion batteries - ultimately offer so much more to the end consumer. Now don't read this has me being an EV nerd, I'm quite the opposite (I drive a Gladiator for crying out loud), but I see the writing on the wall.

• A finite supply of fossil-fuels
• Crude oil supply in volatile regions of the globe
• Battery technology greatly increasing while costs continue to decline
• High R&D in new battery technologies (sodium-ion)
• High performance
• Low maintenance
• Game changers (Musk) willing to burst through existing barriers (unions, governments, oil)
• Political pressure for the "green" future

Of course revolution and change doesn't come easy nor cheap (initially).

I don't see how our energy grids are going to support full-scale electrification. Here in CA we're already challenged. For electrification to truly work, large scale solar deployments need to be administered. Like now. I don't see that happening. The solar industry is not dialed in properly.

I think government-mandated electrification is going to receive backlash from many different communities. I've already read some communities claiming discrimination because they can't afford new EVs. The response is that's what the used ICE car market is for. I don't see this going smoothly.

My guess is the Gladiator will continue with the Pentastar V6 and Diesel. It'll get the Hurricane TT I-6 for a short period while also getting a 4xe version. I don't think it goes true EV (beyond 4xe) for a long while. Definitely no V8.

That's cute, when you can trailer home from that race, not have to worry about recharging....

But out on the trail, not so much, we borrow fuel if we didn't carry enough, we can't borrow electricity.....

ev has a place in the urban realm, a better solution is need to get lost in the wilderness. Because no one will go the places we go with if the power is EV

 

[Hootbro]

Look up abiogenesis crude oil.

Yeah, I am familiar with it.

For the record, I do not believe crude oil is limitless, just I do not subscribe to the narrative that we are anywhere near close to "peak" oil and that it is more of a political limitation at least in the Western based countries than a actual physical limitation to find and extract.

Crude oil pricing on the commodity market is a racket more than a actual refection of true costs plus reasonable profit percentage.

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