2022 gladiator death wobble

[bleda2002]

Yeah I’ve seen that, but I’ve also been told you can’t do it from the rotor with the tie adjustment plates. Especially with bigger tires, you need to do it out where the tires are actually going to sit. I tried it off my rotors but then when my tires went back on it was way off lol. Like almost 2” off

You can as that's still where the wheel face mounts. You need to extend the plates out to where the tires would actually end, so for 37s it should be about 18.5 inches from center

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[Lunentucker]

It flies in the face of decades of suspension and steering engineering.

I emailed SteerSmarts and asked them to explain the reasoning behind the advice.
Maybe if has something to do with setting the toe with no weight on the hubs.
I'll post info if they answer.

 

[Lunentucker]

They answered nearly immediately.

"We spec it that way so it basically provides a pre load on your joints and it helps tighten things up when driving down the road."

Regards,
Chris Doyle | Customer Support Manager

 

[flipmcgee]

I hate to start a new thread on this same subject but filtering through it all is insane. So if I have this one maybe I can find some help. Or maybe one of y’all can alert me to the right people. I purchased my 2022 Rubicon brand new in may of 22’. When I picked it up the dealership ordered my 3.5” Clayton overland plus lift so they could install it to retain the dealerships lifetime power train warranty. It was installed at around 5k miles along with 37-12.50-17 Cooper sst pro’s on dirty life 17x9 -38mm offset wheels. This thing has absolutely been my favorite vehicle and I’ve put more money and care into it more than any vehicle I’ve ever owned ! It has literally only been on one off-road trail that I would even consider a trail. It has rode and drove like a Cadillac and has amazed me how well it’s handled. Then this past fall in October once it started getting cold at night it happened suddenly. Nothing had changed on the truck at all from what it was. At this time it had around 11k miles on it. It death wobbles like crazy if I hit a bump or bridge between 35-40 mph. And I mean it will shake you off the road !! Tires turning back and forth 8” or so forcing me to come to a complete stop. Once I finally could get it to the dealership it had 13k miles on it. Dealership said the famous quote of “ your steering stabilizer” is bad. But after two months of waiting on a new stabilizer I couldn’t wait any longer. This is my daily driver so I went and picked it up. In effort to try and fix it I purchased the Apex 2.5 ton steering kit and a fox 2.0 TS stabilizer and had it installed. I then had have had it aligned twice now. After the first time Clayton seemed to think they saw enough play in the track bar end that they warranted it and sent me a new one. This the reason for second alignment. I’ve had my tires rebalanced and checked twice. After alignment and balancing it done great for about a day or two until another cold night and back it came. It’s got my wife and kids scared to death to ride in it now. I have had the local 4x4 shop go over it twice and they can’t find anything, nothing loose, no play in bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints...anything ! Caster as of right now is at 5.6 but the shop doesn’t really think that’s the issue. I’m torn on what to do as this thing only has 15k on it total now and a lot of my work commute is at that 35-40mph range. At speeds above that and even up to 90 on the interstate it seems to do fine. I’m at a loss for words and hate that as I do really love my truck. What can I do ? Or should I just take it back to the dealer and let it set until it’s fixed ? Only problem with that is Jeep is so far backed up on parts I hate to be without my vehicle for that long. Tie rod ends they said we’re on back order until April. That’s another reason why I went ahead and bought the Apex steering is because I knew that and thought I could see play in the passengers side rod ends.

Last month I experienced the same thing at about 9k miles on my 2022 with standard overland spec tires. That day I drove to the dealership to get an oil change and tire rotation and on the way home it happened and since then it's gotten worse in fact yesterday it was so bad I thought the wheels would come off. I had to pull off the highway to make it stop. The thing ive noticed is that the stearing wheel does really shake the tires wobble likeca bad ball joint. The dealership said it was the steering stabilizer. They said it was redesigned and they would replace mine. Of course this made zero difference and they have since rebalanced the tires and realigned them, no change so ive fallen a crack that may leadcto no solution. I would buy one of these used now that know about this.. Like you, I went from loving this thing to feeling like I made a huge mistake. This is unbelievable that it's not been addressed after 4 model years. It's also so bad that the car isn't safe to drive when it happens, but still not everyone has the problem so it's something they should have been able to fix. I can reproduce it every time in the same place so it should be solvable

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Last month I experienced the same thing at about 9k miles on my 2022 with standard overland spec tires. That day I drove to the dealership to get an oil change and tire rotation and on the way home it happened and since then it's gotten worse in fact yesterday it was so bad I thought the wheels would come off. I had to pull off the highway to make it stop. The thing ive noticed is that the stearing wheel does really shake the tires wobble likeca bad ball joint. The dealership said it was the steering stabilizer. They said it was redesigned and they would replace mine. Of course this made zero difference and they have since rebalanced the tires and realigned them, no change so ive fallen a crack that may leadcto no solution. I would buy one of these used now that know about this.. Like you, I went from loving this thing to feeling like I made a huge mistake. This is unbelievable that it's not been addressed after 4 model years. It's also so bad that the car isn't safe to drive when it happens, but still not everyone has the problem so it's something they should have been able to fix. I can reproduce it every time in the same place so it should be solvable

My dealership was actually able to replicate it right away within the first half mile of the dealership ?. He said yup...it’s definitely death wobble ! ?

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

You can as that's still where the wheel face mounts. You need to extend the plates out to where the tires would actually end, so for 37s it should be about 18.5 inches from center

Yes that’s exactly what I was told

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They answered nearly immediately.

"We spec it that way so it basically provides a pre load on your joints and it helps tighten things up when driving down the road."

Regards,
Chris Doyle | Customer Support Manager

BS.
With big tires outboard so far from the king pins (ok, ball joints on these, same concept) there's a lot more forces trying to pry the tires outward, force them into more toe-out.
So starting that way means while driving you have MORE toe out as things give up their flex and all slack is taken out of anything. You may end up with double that.
Preload on joints? Yikes. They are relying on scrubbing the tires, dragging them sideways to take any slack out. How about using quality parts that fit tight and keep things tight?
That's the dumbest explanation I've seen, sorry.
Toe in slightly like spec, then when you are driving the natural forces trying to move the tires outward will line them up to near 0 and you still have things loaded up, because there are still forces trying to move the tires outward.
Guess I know who I'll not buy from LOL
That flies against more engineering - years worth worth of better experts than they could possibly hire.
Seems like that are throwing a big bandaid on something to avoid complaints, tire wear and scrubbing be damned.

 

[Lunentucker]

BS.
With big tires outboard so far from the king pins (ok, ball joints on these, same concept) there's a lot more forces trying to pry the tires outward, force them into more toe-out.
So starting that way means while driving you have MORE toe out as things give up their flex and all slack is taken out of anything. You may end up with double that.
Preload on joints? Yikes. They are relying on scrubbing the tires, dragging them sideways to take any slack out. How about using quality parts that fit tight and keep things tight?
That's the dumbest explanation I've seen, sorry.
Toe in slightly like spec, then when you are driving the natural forces trying to move the tires outward will line them up to near 0 and you still have things loaded up, because there are still forces trying to move the tires outward.
Guess I know who I'll not buy from LOL
That flies against more engineering - years worth worth of better experts than they could possibly hire.
Seems like that are throwing a big bandaid on something to avoid complaints, tire wear and scrubbing be damned.

In fairness to them, they don't design and build Jeeps. They just make things that try to fix the problems that come with them. ??‍

 

[Puch]

I hate to start a new thread on this same subject but filtering through it all is insane. So if I have this one maybe I can find some help. Or maybe one of y’all can alert me to the right people. I purchased my 2022 Rubicon brand new in may of 22’. When I picked it up the dealership ordered my 3.5” Clayton overland plus lift so they could install it to retain the dealerships lifetime power train warranty. It was installed at around 5k miles along with 37-12.50-17 Cooper sst pro’s on dirty life 17x9 -38mm offset wheels. This thing has absolutely been my favorite vehicle and I’ve put more money and care into it more than any vehicle I’ve ever owned ! It has literally only been on one off-road trail that I would even consider a trail. It has rode and drove like a Cadillac and has amazed me how well it’s handled. Then this past fall in October once it started getting cold at night it happened suddenly. Nothing had changed on the truck at all from what it was. At this time it had around 11k miles on it. It death wobbles like crazy if I hit a bump or bridge between 35-40 mph. And I mean it will shake you off the road !! Tires turning back and forth 8” or so forcing me to come to a complete stop. Once I finally could get it to the dealership it had 13k miles on it. Dealership said the famous quote of “ your steering stabilizer” is bad. But after two months of waiting on a new stabilizer I couldn’t wait any longer. This is my daily driver so I went and picked it up. In effort to try and fix it I purchased the Apex 2.5 ton steering kit and a fox 2.0 TS stabilizer and had it installed. I then had have had it aligned twice now. After the first time Clayton seemed to think they saw enough play in the track bar end that they warranted it and sent me a new one. This the reason for second alignment. I’ve had my tires rebalanced and checked twice. After alignment and balancing it done great for about a day or two until another cold night and back it came. It’s got my wife and kids scared to death to ride in it now. I have had the local 4x4 shop go over it twice and they can’t find anything, nothing loose, no play in bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints...anything ! Caster as of right now is at 5.6 but the shop doesn’t really think that’s the issue. I’m torn on what to do as this thing only has 15k on it total now and a lot of my work commute is at that 35-40mph range. At speeds above that and even up to 90 on the interstate it seems to do fine. I’m at a loss for words and hate that as I do really love my truck. What can I do ? Or should I just take it back to the dealer and let it set until it’s fixed ? Only problem with that is Jeep is so far backed up on parts I hate to be without my vehicle for that long. Tie rod ends they said we’re on back order until April. That’s another reason why I went ahead and bought the Apex steering is because I knew that and thought I could see play in the passengers side rod ends.

I am far from an expert and the only time I’ve had death wobble is when I didn’t torque the track bar correctly. That being said, I’ve been working on a steering issue and I came across this video. My problem isn’t death wobble. I’m pretty confident it’s a bad aluminum steering box.
Anyway, It’s a stupid video, but the info might be worth considering. I don’t have the link. It’s some guy that has a shop in Vegas, I think? Do a YouTube search for “ Death Wobble: Identified, Explained, ELIMINATED!“ if you’re interested.

 

[Jteakus]

Pay special attention to the output shaft on your steering box. Have someone move the steering wheel slowly back and forth and make sure there is zero deflection. Put a dial indicator on it possible.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

I am far from an expert and the only time I’ve had death wobble is when I didn’t torque the track bar correctly. That being said, I’ve been working on a steering issue and I came across this video. My problem isn’t death wobble. I’m pretty confident it’s a bad aluminum steering box.
Anyway, It’s a stupid video, but the info might be worth considering. I don’t have the link. It’s some guy that has a shop in Vegas, I think? Do a YouTube search for “ Death Wobble: Identified, Explained, ELIMINATED!“ if you’re interested.

Yeah I’ve paid really close attention to the track bar and making sure it stays tight. It’s gotta be tightened to almost 200 ft lb. mine has the updated metal steering box on it from the factory. But I am seeing a lot of deflection in it. But the steering box bolts are tight.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Pay special attention to the output shaft on your steering box. Have someone move the steering wheel slowly back and forth and make sure there is zero deflection. Put a dial indicator on it possible.

I have actually noticed like a grease, not fluid coming out of the input ( steering wheel ) side. I could smell it coming in through the air vents, smelled like grease anyhow. It’s not power steering fluid. I am seeing a lot of deflection ( movement ) in the whole steering box. I can physically watch the top of the box move probably 1/2-3/4”. I have kept an eye on and tightened the steering box bolts also.

 

[Jteakus]

That’s your problem

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have actually noticed like a grease, not fluid coming out of the input ( steering wheel ) side. I could smell it coming in through the air vents, smelled like grease anyhow. It’s not power steering fluid. I am seeing a lot of deflection ( movement ) in the whole steering box. I can physically watch the top of the box move probably 1/2-3/4”. I have kept an eye on and tightened the steering box bolts also.

I don't recall the specific torque specs for the steering gear to frame bolts, but I had them at one time and did a check on my 2020 - and it was a torque plus degree spec and I got about 1/4 turn more out of mine using the FCA specs as the techs have access to.
I was just checking as I wanted to cover all bases before going back to the dealer about it.

As posted above this post - any deflection is bad and some have actually made videos of the flex when the steering wheel is turned and the truck is stationary - not even on large tires. Larger tires = more stress/pressure when turning so flex with stock tires leads to much more with bigger tires.
And I've found with weight on the front of my truck, I can make the PS pause - take a second to actually assist in turning.

Flexing steel leads to stress cracking - time to look into that part of it as a problem, even if it's not "the" cause of DW in your specific case - it ain't good and imagine how that steering gear is moving once DW starts..................

 

[IanNubbit]

I don't recall the specific torque specs for the steering gear to frame bolts, but I had them at one time and did a check on my 2020 - and it was a torque plus degree spec and I got about 1/4 turn more out of mine using the FCA specs as the techs have access to.
I was just checking as I wanted to cover all bases before going back to the dealer about it.

As posted above this post - any deflection is bad and some have actually made videos of the flex when the steering wheel is turned and the truck is stationary - not even on large tires. Larger tires = more stress/pressure when turning so flex with stock tires leads to much more with bigger tires.
And I've found with weight on the front of my truck, I can make the PS pause - take a second to actually assist in turning.

Flexing steel leads to stress cracking - time to look into that part of it as a problem, even if it's not "the" cause of DW in your specific case - it ain't good and imagine how that steering gear is moving once DW starts..................

44ft. lbs + 135 degrees for steel gear boxes.

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