Class Action Law suit for windshields in Gladiator and Wranglers

[ShadowsPapa]

If they are defective windshields on new cars, the recourse is through the auto manufacturer.

Good luck proving defective unless you have a crack that begins at the edge, not near the edge, at the edge.

Check out the Bronco people, and this tidbit -

3 windshields just plain cracking.

From a Bronco owner -

Interesting -

Is Jeep REALLY to blame?
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/bronco-sport-windshield-integrity.8125/#post-143454

To successfully sue, they must, through discovery or other process, prove that Jeep, Hyundai, Land Rover, Ford, or whoever is being sued, KNEW of the defect and that it was a defect.
They have to prove knowledge and existance.

I question their ability to prove it's a massive safety issue in general, especially when they are alleging that it affects the structural integrity of the vehicle (in Jeep's case) - which Jeep can toss right back at them, because on these, it's not.

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[Wheelin98TJ]

Good luck proving defective unless you have a crack that begins at the edge, not near the edge, at the edge.

Check out the Bronco people, and this tidbit -

3 windshields just plain cracking.

From a Bronco owner -

Interesting -

Is Jeep REALLY to blame?
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/bronco-sport-windshield-integrity.8125/#post-143454

To successfully sue, they must, through discovery or other process, prove that Jeep, Hyundai, Land Rover, Ford, or whoever is being sued, KNEW of the defect and that it was a defect.
They have to prove knowledge and existance.

I question their ability to prove it's a massive safety issue in general, especially when they are alleging that it affects the structural integrity of the vehicle (in Jeep's case) - which Jeep can toss right back at them, because on these, it's not.

Maybe I wasn't very clear previously.

Other cars having windshield problems does not help a Jeep owner trying to get their windshield fixed under warranty. The only possible solution is to go through Jeep.

If Jeep sells you a vehicle with a defective windshield, Jeep is the one to blame. They are who provides the bumper-to-bumper warranty.

If other companies are having glass issues, now we have multiple auto makers that have issues with glass suppliers. It's not between the end consumer and the glass manufacturers.

This is why I don't care if Toyota or Hyundai are having glass problems. It's not relevant to me at all.

 

[sharpsicle]

Maybe I wasn't very clear previously.

Other cars having windshield problems does not help a Jeep owner trying to get their windshield fixed under warranty. The only possible solution is to go through Jeep.

If Jeep sells you a vehicle with a defective windshield, Jeep is the one to blame. They are who provides the bumper-to-bumper warranty.

If other companies are having glass issues, now we have multiple auto makers that have issues with glass suppliers. It's not between the end consumer and the glass manufacturers.

This is why I don't care if Toyota or Hyundai are having glass problems. It's not relevant to me at all.

But you should care. Because if you believe the glass itself is defective, then since the same glass manufacturer supplies multiple brands, the defect would be present across those brands as well. That's the power of root cause investigation.

The only way that only Jeep matters is if you believe Jeep is the one responsible for the defect. In which case I'd love to hear your facts that support that statement. Because those supporting facts are exactly what Jeep needs to warranty your windshield. Defects do happen, and they are covered. So if you can't get it replaced under warranty, then it either isn't an evident defect (highly likely) or they decided to ignore your evidence despite it being sufficient to prove a factory defect (very unlikely).

Glass cracks. It happens. And not just because of defects, especially for windshields. They are exposed to the worst the road has to offer. It's an expected possibility for them to crack, to the point that we have specific laws and insurance policies specifically to deal with them. I find it interesting that people jump on the "defective" train when all they see is a crack in a windshield. No investigation, no definitive evidence, nothing. Just a loud cry of "defect!"

"Well me and ten of my buddies all got cracks in our windshields!". Yeah, and what other factors could be at play here? Drive down the same roads? Drive in similar manners that increase risk of cracks? All go wheeling together, all follow each other in caravans? How come none of that could possibly be the correlation? Why does it have to immediately be a defect?

That's why this suit and others like it have trouble getting teeth.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

But you should care. Because if you believe the glass itself is defective, then since the same glass manufacturer supplies multiple brands, the defect would be present across those brands as well. That's the power of root cause investigation.

The only way that only Jeep matters is if you believe Jeep is the one responsible for the defect. In which case I'd love to hear your facts that support that statement. Because those supporting facts are exactly what Jeep needs to warranty your windshield. Defects do happen, and they are covered. So if you can't get it replaced under warranty, then it either isn't an evident defect (highly likely) or they decided to ignore your evidence despite it being sufficient to prove a factory defect (very unlikely).

Glass cracks. It happens. And not because of defects, especially for windshields. They are exposed to the worst the road has to offer. It's an expected possibility for them to crack, to the point that we have specific laws and insurance policies specifically for them. I find it interesting that people jump on the "defective" train when all they see is a crack in a windshield. No investigation, no definitive evidence, nothing. Just a loud cry of "defect!"

That's why this suit and others like it have trouble getting teeth.

I don't really believe the glass is defective.

If Jeep sells you a vehicle with a defective windshield....

If other companies are having glass issues...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Glass cracks. It happens. And not just because of defects, especially for windshields. They are exposed to the worst the road has to offer. It's an expected possibility for them to crack, to the point that we have specific laws and insurance policies specifically to deal with them. I find it interesting that people jump on the "defective" train when all they see is a crack in a windshield. No investigation, no definitive evidence, nothing. Just a loud cry of "defect!"

I love seeing the "none of those pictures showed any chip" type comments. LOL - unless you are 2" from the glass, you probably won't see it. Like the first JT windshield I lost - the glass had to be made spotlessly clean and examined under a bright light to finally see a tiny little spec inside the crack that appeared to be the origin. I never heard a thing. And I rarely drive gravel and I try to keep my distance. Glass will crack at the drop of a hat (don't I know from working cutting glass in a hardware store). Touch the edge of a windshield with a metal tool and watch the crack crawl up the windshield. Been there - touched it with a tool removing trim. That's all it took.
Again, I hear "there was no chip, I never heard a thing hit the glass" and so on - but did anyone clean the glass spotless and take a bright light outside of the sunlight (meaning in a garage or in the shade) and look for the signs (would they even recognize a chip inside a crack?)
Glass sitting in hot sun, in states like AZ (which leads the country in claims) or in cold weather, heating, cooling, it all stresses glass. Heating and cooling on different sides, like hopping in a vehicle sitting in the AZ sun then blasting the AC on full tilt - one side hot, the other side cool = stress.
Same for winters - outside of the glass is cold, you warm the interior, unequal pressures. The idea from experts in the glass industry is warm the glass slowly. Warm the cabin up a bit, slowly run defrost and warm it slowly and evenly, allowing the outer layer to warm up before the inside layer gets hot. Same on a hot day with AC.
Impatient humans don't help any and I'm one of those - my wife is a bit worse - get in, start it, full defrost, temp to max, fan on high, let's GO!

I'm not arguing for or against Jeep - just the silliness I see out there.
I see both sides, maybe all sides.
The push for lighter and better mpg is driving technology and manufacturing processes to the brink - and it's only getting worse in the next few years. Lighter glass - oh, but it's got to be safer glass, too, says NHTSA.
With so many issues, maybe the manufacturing processes are to blame. And if that's the case, Jeep may honestly have no blame.
One industry sort of associated with the insurance industry says there's a solution to "some of this" and that's a different process on the edge of the glass, along with an application of some sort to make the edge less vulnerable at the various stages of manufacture, shipping, handing and installation, but they say it would make glass a bit more expensive so it's being fought - ironically by the insurance industry themselves.

Anyway, my beef is the lawsuit. (and some of the claims within) and how fast people are to SUE SUE SUE!
The attorneys get millions, the plaintiffs get a new windshield, other participants get $25 bucks (just guessing based on other similar suits) and no one wins because now there's another reason to increase prices on the next model year - to recover the expenses during the whole process.

 

[Burghardphotography]

As long as I keep getting free windshield replacement through my insurance, I am not going to sweat this issue all too much. Out where I am dirt roads are everywhere, and the state gravels the highways for winter conditions... its bound to happen.

But even I will admit three windshields in a year is a new one for me. I think most of my other vehicles had their windshields replaced once in the life of the car.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

As long as I keep getting free windshield replacement through my insurance, I am not going to sweat this issue all too much. Out where I am dirt roads are everywhere, and the state gravels the highways for winter conditions... its bound to happen.

But even I will admit three windshields in a year is a new one for me. I think most of my other vehicles had their windshields replaced once in the life of the car.

Wow, 3 in a year - amazing.

I've only been to Eugene - nice place, beautiful in the spring, and hard to imagine them putting anything down in the winter (was there in February and it was like April in Iowa)
Portland, I know nothing about. I suppose they lay down what they have and I imagine a lot of gravel and sand be among natural resources.

That's just it - I can get repairs all I want at no cost, so I inspect the windshield now and then, especially since in the April through end of fall time period, you have to clean the glass daily just to see out it's a good time to look to see if any of those big beetles or little gnats were wearing goth helmets.
On the way home last Saturday my wife commented it sounded like it was raining - it was a constant sound. The bugs were so numerous and constant and loud, it did sound like rain, but nope, no clouds (need rain badly)
Removing that layer of bug stuff today so she could drive my JT is when I decided time to call the 800 number.

 

[Uparms]

6 Jeeps and never had a crack due to heat. cold, vibration. One in the F150 ( heat).

I have relaced 2 on this 2020 JT. Best damn glass company in the state. 450 for a Jeep windshield or 250 for generic. Rocks on the highway shooting up. Last windshield was a month old and I watched the rock fly up off a big truck on 295 out of jersey coming home from 4Wheel Drive Off Road store grand opening. Well at least I had a bag of free stuff for getting up so early . Drove around with that bullet hole for 9 months or so.

The first windshield I saw the rock come up off a brick company tire in the state and the owner split the cost.

Feel sorry for those with that fancy accident protection system. Those windshields are much higher.

I too don't think this suit will go anywhere.

I am kind of embarrassed for an owner that can make this claim though " he contends a gnat hit the windshield and caused a chip to develop ". I ride costal Delaware marsh / river roads all week and hit some big big bugs.

Have Fun, Be Safe!

 

[Viper501]

if it is a big nothing burger and they try to withdraw their lawsuit as FCA can go after them for their attorney costs.

No they can’t. In the US, unlike the UK, the loser doesn’t pay costs / fees except in VERY limited circumstances, none of which would seem to apply here.

 

[Viper501]

Someone earlier said that if anything current glass manufacturing technology is better than 50 years ago, but I wonder if the windshield thicknesses are the same.

The glass is substantially thinner across the board. Look at an 90’s era Mercedes S class versus a new one. Ferrari even does it with their ‘higher’ performance models like the Scuderias. Anywhere they can save weight they will. The costs of replacement are not on the manufacturer since it is an impact from a third-party object. This is part of the reason I see very little likelihood of any real success with a class action, or other, lawsuit. In ‘normal’ operation the windshields don’t crack. Hit it with an object traveling at substantial speed and there is no windshield that will continue to sustain that damage. Even bullet resistant glass will fail.

Combine the glass with the verticality of the impacts and there is a greater problem. Tank armor is a good parallel to consider. It is sloped by design not only to ‘deflect’ the incoming round but more importantly to increase the cross sectional thickness of the armor relative to the incoming round. Unfortunately we have the armor of a Sherman with the verticality of a Tiger 1.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No they can’t. In the US, unlike the UK, the loser doesn’t pay costs / fees except in VERY limited circumstances, none of which would seem to apply here.

Tell that to Stormy or countless others in the news lately who lost and had to pay attorney fees.
I know, that wasn't class action. The COURT decides.

Suits like this the attorney fees come right out of what the winner gets. FCA, if they lost, would of course pay their own attorney fees.
In most class action, the court decided who pays. General rule, though, is each side pays their own. There's no law saying such but it's how it generally goes. FCA has attorneys on staff so it's not as big a deal. When I was at PFG, the entire top floor of their headquarters was the CEO and a couple other upper guys, and the rest - all attorneys. The carpet and furniture on that floor was WOW.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Feel sorry for those with that fancy accident protection system. Those windshields are much higher.

Not if you have insurance. You pay the deductible, regardless. So if your deductible is 0, you pay 0, if your deductible is 250, you pay 250 no matter what the windshield costs.
It's only expensive if you have NO insurance or choose not to use them and I have no idea why anyone would choose to not use the insurance. They can't do squat about comprehensive claims. They must pay them and not raise rates or cancel.

 

[RHRT]

My wife and I live north of Phoenix and our auto insurance pays for new windshields for all of our vehicles. Our deductible is $600 for all our vehicles and our insurance covers full replacement without any further cost to our policy. I cannot say that our Gladiator and Liberty are any more prone to damage then the 2004 Grand Cherokee I used to have and my 2015 Camry. The 2004 GC had 4 windshields in 2 years and the 2015 Camry has 6 changed in 5 years. 2012 Liberty has had 5 in 7 years and the 2022 Gladiator is on its 3rd since August of 2022. Granted the Gladiator and the Liberty have little to no tilt to their respective windshields but the GC and Camry have quite the angled windshields. Driving in AZ and damaged windshields are just the way it is here in the Copper State. Unless there is proof that Jeep has a windshield manufacturing issue, then I see no point in a class action suit. But we all live in the of Sue!(no reference to Johnny Cash) We all have some sort of additional insurance depending on local and home protection(fire, smoke, flood damages etc.) Next time the Gladiator windshield gets whacked, it's getting a Gorilla Glass replacement for sure!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Combine the glass with the verticality of the impacts and there is a greater problem. Tank armor is a good parallel to consider. It is sloped by design not only to ‘deflect’ the incoming round but more importantly to increase the cross sectional thickness of the armor relative to the incoming round. Unfortunately we have the armor of a Sherman with the verticality of a Tiger 1.

That's one of the better explanations, besides the fact that it's presenting a larger face, increasing the target area for rocks and pebbles.
A slanted windshield will present a smaller area to hit.
A slanted windshield, just like explained above in the quote, presents a thicker cross-section.

Those of us using a purpose vehicle as a daily driver are accepting the risks.

BTW - nice videos online of tanks being destroyed for those into explosions, destruction and blowing up tanks. Some of the best tanks out there being obliterated. Cool videos.

 

[Adobehome.judy]

I was very interested to find this thread as, for me, it's very timely. I am an Arizona desert resident, daily highway driver and moderately off-road camping enthusiast. And currently, extremely annoyed! 1 week ago on Th 6/22 I had my '23 JT's windshield replaced by Safelight due to a massive crack going right to left almost edge to edge. I waited the 2 extra days for my OEM glass because seeing the tiny Jeep climb my right windshield makes me smile every single time I get in my truck. Not 5 days later, on Tu 6/28, on my way down to Tucson on 1-10, 3 lanes over to the left (yes, passing) I was driving about 150 yards behind a gravel truck with canvas cover but spewing very small gravel debris. I was holding my breath as many were striking my windshield. I breathed a sigh of relief seeing that none created a chip. Well, that relief was short lived as within 50 miles a crack evolved from a tiny chip near the very lowest part of the windshield on passenger side. Good thing I had no passengers because the verbal tirade of foul language would've made a sailor blush! (No offense meant Navy folks, just a figure of speech) I picked up my Jeep in Idaho on Jan 4th and due to lots of fun travel, including 1 month in Mexico, I already have 12,000 miles. I would have expected windshield damage while in Mexico. But, no, Arizona is notorious and maybe the 100+ degrees the last week (& to be continued) had something to do with the chips so rapidly developing into major cracks. No question here, just thought I'd share my sad story.(And maybe hoping for some sympathy. LOL)?

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