do these automatically idle up/accelerate in 4 low to climb over obstacles?

[ShadowsPapa]

That’s brake hold.

That's hill start assist.
I've quoted from the book the only two things that matter. There is nothing else about these that would operate the throttle.
That's HILL START ASSIST and that's all that works going up hill, other than SCC and for that you must press the button and meet the criteria.
Anything that automates things requires the seat belt be fastened.

So, show me the feature, either in the radio or in the book, that will apply throttle without being turned on by the press of a button.

Show me your "hill climb assist" document and/or feature in the radio. And show that it works with no seat belt and that it controls the throttle without pressing any button.

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[WILDHOBO]

BRAKES, not throttle. Only "duck mode" or speed control for hill descent uses throttle - down hill and only when you press the button.

Hill Start Assist can be enabled or disabled in the menus in the radio.
If it's enabled, it works any time the above is true.
If it's disabled, it won't ever work.
Hill Start Assist never uses engine speed or throttle.
It's a godsend on a fair hill with a stick - you are sitting in heavy traffic, the light turns, you take your foot off the brake and touch the throttle while letting up on the clutch to take off - and the vehicle rolls backward 6" into the car behind you. This mitigates that by holding the brake for you while you operate throttle and clutch.
And even with automatics, the idle speed is not sufficiently high enough to hold position with foot off the brake, so it helps there, too.

(Sure wish my 73 with a 2400 stall converter had this feature! There's zero drag until you rev the engine over 2,000 RPM so it rolls really super easy in gear.)

Using throttle for such things - especially when unexpected, is, yes, risky, even dangerous. It applies throttle but how would it react if it went over the top of the ramps?
Sorry, if you have it in gear, 4L and it uses throttle, it is indeed risky. Only the driver knows exactly when to stop forward motion.

Even "duck mode" you must have the seat belt fastened for it to work -

So doors must be closed, driver seat belt buckled.

If the door is open and/or the seat belt not connected, then even this won't function.
I doubt the seat belt was on driving up ramps.
I never buckle up for driving up ramps or connecting to a snow plow or trailer.

So it wasn't hill start assist and it wasn't SSC or duck mode.

I’ve got to call you on this one. Reading the manual and actually rock crawling with these is DIFFERENT. You’re the first person to say you don’t use yours for that, and that Iowa doesn’t have that type of terrain. Please defer to those that do use these for these purposes. We’re quite experienced with this function. Stop waving the danger flag about a feature you’ve likely not used. It’s fantastic, and is in now way dangerous. One needs to know and learn the features and characteristics of their vehicle. Just because a behavior differs from other vehicles, does not make it dangerous. In my opinion though, 4wd is not necessary to go up ramps. In fact it could shoot the ramp out for no reason. First gear, good rear wheel traction, and just slowly go up. Making sure the ramps are in a good spot and aren’t prone to slipping out. Good quality ramps with a gentle approach angle and sufficient width for the tires make a difference.

 

[WILDHOBO]

That's hill start assist.
I've quoted from the book the only two things that matter. There is nothing else about these that would operate the throttle.
That's HILL START ASSIST and that's all that works going up hill, other than SCC and for that you must press the button and meet the criteria.
Anything that automates things requires the seat belt be fastened.

So, show me the feature, either in the radio or in the book, that will apply throttle without being turned on by the press of a button.

Show me your "hill climb assist" document and/or feature in the radio. And show that it works with no seat belt and that it controls the throttle without pressing any button.

The OP never mentioned the throttle. You did. He said it “idled” up on its own.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’ve got to call you on this one. Reading the manual and actually rock crawling with these is DIFFERENT. You’re the first person to say you don’t use yours for that, and that Iowa doesn’t have that type of terrain. Please defer to those that do use these for these purposes. We’re quite experienced with this function. Stop waving the danger flag about a feature you’ve likely not used. It’s fantastic, and is in now way dangerous. One needs to know and learn the features and characteristics of their vehicle. Just because a behavior differs from other vehicles, does not make it dangerous. In my opinion though, 4wd is not necessary to go up ramps. In fact it could shoot the ramp out for no reason. First gear, good rear wheel traction, and just slowly go up. Making sure the ramps are in a good spot and aren’t prone to slipping out. Good quality ramps with a gentle approach angle and sufficient width for the tires make a difference.

And I'm seeing that and raising you.
Show me the feature.

 

[WILDHOBO]

That's hill start assist.
I've quoted from the book the only two things that matter. There is nothing else about these that would operate the throttle.
That's HILL START ASSIST and that's all that works going up hill, other than SCC and for that you must press the button and meet the criteria.
Anything that automates things requires the seat belt be fastened.

So, show me the feature, either in the radio or in the book, that will apply throttle without being turned on by the press of a button.

Show me your "hill climb assist" document and/or feature in the radio. And show that it works with no seat belt and that it controls the throttle without pressing any button.

Get off the couch, go get in your rubicon, and get out your ramps. Try it, then come back and lecture people about a feature you haven’t experienced.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The OP never mentioned the throttle. You did. He said it “idled” up on its own.

LOL - idling up is throttle. The PCM controls the throttle, not you. You tell the PCM that you are requesting more - and it handles the rest. So it's very possible for the PCM to up the throttle opening.
Idling up on its own is dangerous.
So far no one can prove these will idle up on their own without your foot on the pedal or some feature enabled.
What do you think controls idle? The throttle motor.

 

[WILDHOBO]

LOL - idling up is throttle. The PCM controls the throttle, not you. You tell the PCM that you are requesting more - and it handles the rest. So it's very possible for the PCM to up the throttle opening.
Idling up on its own is dangerous.
So far no one can prove these will idle up on their own without your foot on the pedal or some feature enabled.
What do you think controls idle? The throttle motor.

And yet you haven’t tried it. Weird. Btw, could you please let me know how this compares to a 70’s amc coup when you have a moment? Thanks.

 

[WILDHOBO]

And I'm seeing that and raising you.
Show me the feature.

To be fair and equal, I’ll happily do that. I’ll grab my ramps and let it climb. No duck mode (select speed control), and no foot on either pedal. Also, no danger. Keep in mind, I’d NEVER use this feature to go onto ramps unless I was proving a point. I two-foot ramp ascents. I’m not a big fan of over shooting the ramp accidentally. And sometimes one ramp will grab, and the other will slide. It happens.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Get off the couch, go get in your rubicon, and get out your ramps. Try it, then come back and lecture people about a feature you haven’t experienced.

I'm waiting for someone with a Rubicon to show how they can see the engine speed increase on the tach when their foot is not touching the pedal, brakes off.
Our Rubicon wouldn't ever need to do that because electric or hybrid mode it would walk right up any ramps. Proof is getting over the ledge (rain stop ledge) to get into our garage. I have to give it gas to get up, over and in. The Rubicon it simply goes over that same ledge, effortlessly.
A 4xe is no comparison. It blows the 3.6 away in getting over stuff.

I don't own ramps - no need for them, don't like them, don't trust them. My son crushed a pair when applying RPM to get up over the top hump, it jumped over and came down on the other side. I then saw the dangers and tossed mine in the garbage.
When you apply throttle to get over something, suddenly the resistance is no longer there. Too easy to not stop once that resistance is gone because you are now applying torque to overcome something that's gone - so what happens? You shoot forward.

BTW - why aren't you issuing the same challenges to the other three on page one that said "no, it doesn't"?
You've said nothing to @Lunentucker, or @Jefe1018, or @bleda2002 (2 of them Rubicon owners)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

To be fair and equal, I’ll happily do that. I’ll grab my ramps and let it climb. No duck mode (select speed control), and no foot on either pedal. Also, no danger. Keep in mind, I’d NEVER use this feature to go onto ramps unless I was proving a point. I two-foot ramp ascents. I’m not a big fan of over shooting the ramp accidentally. And sometimes one ramp will grab, and the other will slide. It happens.

You need to watch, video, the tach. And the tach needs to rise above normal curb idle at normal operating temperature. (these idle faster when cool or cold)

 

[WILDHOBO]

I'm waiting for someone with a Rubicon to show how they can see the engine speed increase on the tach when their foot is not touching the pedal, brakes off.
Our Rubicon wouldn't ever need to do that because electric or hybrid mode it would walk right up any ramps. Proof is getting over the ledge (rain stop ledge) to get into our garage. I have to give it gas to get up, over and in. The Rubicon it simply goes over that same ledge, effortlessly.
A 4xe is no comparison. It blows the 3.6 away in getting over stuff.

I don't own ramps - no need for them, don't like them, don't trust them. My son crushed a pair when applying RPM to get up over the top hump, it jumped over and came down on the other side. I then saw the dangers and tossed mine in the garbage.
When you apply throttle to get over something, suddenly the resistance is no longer there. Too easy to not stop once that resistance is gone because you are now applying torque to overcome something that's gone - so what happens? You shoot forward.

BTW - why aren't you issuing the same challenges to the other three on page one that said "no, it doesn't"?
You've said nothing to @Lunentucker, or @Jefe1018, or @bleda2002 (2 of them Rubicon owners)

Because they aren’t lecturing about what they haven’t tried. And your 4xe rubicon has an entirely different drivetrain.

And ramps can be safe. I don’t like them either, but do have a set to change oil in my wife’s super low clearance vehicle. But they’re solid from top to the ground. I’d NEVER use sheet metal ramps. They’re sketchy.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I'm waiting for someone with a Rubicon to show how they can see the engine speed increase on the tach when their foot is not touching the pedal, brakes off.
Our Rubicon wouldn't ever need to do that because electric or hybrid mode it would walk right up any ramps. Proof is getting over the ledge (rain stop ledge) to get into our garage. I have to give it gas to get up, over and in. The Rubicon it simply goes over that same ledge, effortlessly.
A 4xe is no comparison. It blows the 3.6 away in getting over stuff.

I don't own ramps - no need for them, don't like them, don't trust them. My son crushed a pair when applying RPM to get up over the top hump, it jumped over and came down on the other side. I then saw the dangers and tossed mine in the garbage.
When you apply throttle to get over something, suddenly the resistance is no longer there. Too easy to not stop once that resistance is gone because you are now applying torque to overcome something that's gone - so what happens? You shoot forward.

BTW - why aren't you issuing the same challenges to the other three on page one that said "no, it doesn't"?
You've said nothing to @Lunentucker, or @Jefe1018, or @bleda2002 (2 of them Rubicon owners)

Is your new JT another overland, from my recollection? If so, it doesn’t have the t-case or differential gear ratios the rubicon does. A 3.6 rubicon would walk up your driveway step just as easily. It’s a gearing issue. Your crawl ratio in the overland is 47.78:1. A stock rubicon is 77.24. It’s night and day.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Here's the problem with his contention -
He said it "idled up" - quote below -

My question was if the engine is supposed to speed up, wihtout me pressing the pedal, to crawl up/over obstacles on it's own. I'm almost certain i heard it do this yesterday.

So, you are in 4L, in gear, FOOT OFF the pedal, and you are up against an obstacle, and it automatically applies throttle to go over it?
He didn't say seat belt buckled or not, but these won't engage much of any mode if the seat belt isn't connected - doesn't matter the mode, it's a safety thing. It won't apply anything unless it's buckled. So if he wasn't buckled in, it's even less likely such a thing could happen.

What if I was climbing or positioning to go over something, and I stopped by taking my foot off the gas but was still in gear, and it applied throttle - picks up speed by itself, and I didn't WANT to go any further?
What if I'm all but cresting a hill - there's a rock at the top and I decide to take my foot off the gas, it's still in gear, and it applied throttle or ups the idle to get over it - see how nasty that could be?
It's not a feature - it's a risk if it does that. Why would it increase speed when YOUR FOOT isn't on that pedal?

These can control and adjust torque as needed - but only when told to do so.
He's saying he was going up ramps in 4L, and had his foot off the gas and it increased engine speed - by itself. What if he was as high as he wanted to go, took his foot off the gas but it kept going?
No, sorry, you gotta prove these would even do that and if they did, it's a problem, not a feature.
Only YOU should control your ascent or descent speed with the throttle unless you have engaged the system to do so in manual mode, crawl mode.

Imagine going up a ramp, up over a branch, taking your time, taking your foot off the pedal to evaluate your next course of action and it decided hey, we're not done here yet and ups the RPM He specifically said -

I'm pretty sure the engine idled up on it's own to climb it.

My question was if the engine is supposed to speed up, wihtout me pressing the pedal, to crawl up/over obstacles on it's own. I'm almost certain i heard it do this yesterday.

and that could be a deadly situation, no matter how hard you say there's no risk, no danger. An engine changing speed by itself, without the driver pressing a button, moving a lever or touching the gas pedal?
Way too many what-ifs as it can't see, it can't judge where you are on that ledge, where you are on that ramp, or how much force it's going to take to get over that rock, branch, or the crest of that hill that once up there, is straight down on the other side.

To prove it will do this, one would need to:
Take a Rubicon 3.6, put it in 4L. Do not engage duck mode, leave the transmission in automatic, do not move the lever to the left, put the wheels against the ramps or obstacle, proceed up, take foot off the pedal and watch - video - that tach. Show that the idle speed increases after you take your foot off, above normal curb idle speed while in gear.

I can't show anything other than the documentation. I have an Overland JT as pointed out with different ratios (although going up ramps it won't matter much) and our Rubicon is a 4xe and blows away any gas powered JT or JL in torque with one wheel tied behind its back. And in electric mode, if your foot isn't on the pedal, the motors are off and it simply says "ready" so there's 0 torque applied when your foot isn't on the gas. So I can't even use it to prove or disprove anything other than prove the 4xe is a super-climber that makes the 3.6 look like a go kart engine. Heck, it rarely ever downshifts even in the mountains - it doesn't need to.

So, my challenge to a Rubicon JT 3.6 owner (diesel doesn't count, we know they have torque):
Get out your ramps.
Put your JT Rubicon 3.6 in 4L
Put it in drive.
Approach ramps, touch ramps, perhaps start up ramps, take foot off pedal.
Video the tach - watch for the idle speed to increase over in gear warm curb idle and continue to climb. We're watching for an INCREASE in idle speed, not a drop then return to normal, not a drop to 550 then a return to 700 for example, but if it's normally 700 in gear when warm, we're looking for an idle speed on the tach to jump over 700 by an appreciable amount (say up to 800+)
We must use the tach because sounds can be deceiving - it could be the FAN kicking on! It could be the PS pump, it could be the vacuum pump for the brakes. So the only way to know is the tach. The other stuff may sound like an engine speed change. (and the AC coming on or kicking off could cause a momentary change in speed)

 

[WILDHOBO]

Here's the problem with his contention -
He said it "idled up" - quote below -


So, you are in 4L, in gear, FOOT OFF the pedal, and you are up against an obstacle, and it automatically applies throttle to go over it?
What if I was climbing or positioning to go over something, and I stopped by taking my foot off the gas but was still in gear, and it applied throttle - picks up speed by itself, and I didn't WANT to go any further?
What if I'm all but cresting a hill - there's a rock at the top and I decide to take my foot off the gas, it's still in gear, and it applied throttle or ups the idle to get over it - see how nasty that could be?
It's not a feature - it's a risk if it does that. Why would it increase speed when YOUR FOOT isn't on that pedal?

These can control and adjust torque as needed - but only when told to do so.
He's saying he was going up ramps in 4L, and had his foot off the gas and it increased engine speed - by itself. What if he was as high as he wanted to go, took his foot off the gas but it kept going?
No, sorry, you gotta prove these would even do that and if they did, it's a problem, not a feature.
Only YOU should control your ascent or descent speed with the throttle unless you have engaged the system to do so in manual mode, crawl mode.

Imagine going up a ramp, up over a branch, taking your time, taking your foot off the pedal to evaluate your next course of action and it decided hey, we're not done here yet and ups the RPM He specifically said -



and that could be a deadly situation, no matter how hard you say there's no risk, no danger. An engine changing speed by itself, without the driver pressing a button, moving a lever or touching the gas pedal?
Way too many what-ifs as it can't see, it can't judge where you are on that ledge, where you are on that ramp, or how much force it's going to take to get over that rock, branch, or the crest of that hill that once up there, is straight down on the other side.

To prove it will do this, one would need to:
Take a Rubicon 3.6, put it in 4L. Do not engage duck mode, leave the transmission in automatic, do not move the lever to the left, put the wheels against the ramps or obstacle, proceed up, take foot off the pedal and watch - video - that tach. Show that the idle speed increases after you take your foot off, above normal curb idle speed while in gear.

I can't show anything other than the documentation. I have an Overland JT as pointed out with different ratios (although going up ramps it won't matter much) and our Rubicon is a 4xe and blows away any gas powered JT or JL in torque with one wheel tied behind its back. And in electric mode, if your foot isn't on the pedal, the motors are off and it simply says "ready" so there's 0 torque applied when your foot isn't on the gas. So I can't even use it to prove or disprove anything other than prove the 4xe is a super-climber that makes the 3.6 look like a go kart engine. Heck, it rarely ever downshifts even in the mountains - it doesn't need to.

Oh my god. If you don’t understand the behavior since you’ve never experienced it, stop lecturing. It only does it when your relatively flat and are STARTING a climb. It’s super subtle and not fast. It doesn’t do it when you’re cresting a hill. Go try it or just stop. Your lectures are tiring, especially because you know nothing about this subject whatsoever. You seem angry today. Why not go out and try it? You’d quickly find out how nice it is. You’re assuming a lot from “idled up”. A LOT. I’ll be the first person to ask you about rebuilding 50 year old heater cores. But on this subject, you’re hardly the expert. You’re not even familiar with the behavior. You have an overland with 40% higher crawl ratio. It’s not even close to apples and oranges. And your 4xe which has likely never seen rocks, is totally different.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Oh my god. If you don’t understand the behavior since you’ve never experienced it, stop lecturing. It only does it when your relatively flat and are STARTING a climb. It’s super subtle and not fast. It doesn’t do it when you’re cresting a hill. Go try it or just stop. Your lectures are tiring, especially because you know nothing about this subject whatsoever. You seem angry today. Why not go out and try it? You’d quickly find out how nice it is. You’re assuming a lot from “idled up”. A LOT. I’ll be the first person to ask you about rebuilding 50 year old heater cores. But on this subject, you’re hardly the expert. You’re not even familiar with the behavior. You have an overland with 40% higher crawl ratio. It’s not even close to apples and oranges. And your 4xe which has likely never seen rocks, is totally different.

Then you can show or demonstrate, right? 3 others have said no - and yet you don't tell them THEY are wrong.
Go tell them directly. They've said the same thing "no".
Why would it be nice if I approached an incline and was in 4L and took my foot off the gas if it idled up and tried to continue?

If it makes you happier, later today I'll turn my truck around, facing the incline and roughly 1.5" jump required to get into my garage, pull up until there's some resistance and let up on the gas. If it's like you say, the idle speed should increase. I'll try both buckled and not buckled in. It's a mild hill due to how the concrete had to be poured to guide heavy rains away from the buildings and to a big drain. So you go down hill when coming in, hit that low spot, then the last 3 or 4 feet are up hill again, then the ledge to get into the garage. Will that be enough?

And since 3 others (at least) have said no, it doesn't - how about YOU prove they are wrong by demonstrating it since you have a JTR and can very easily prove it. It would take you mere minutes to do it with a phone recording the tach.

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