3.6 Engine Tick

[ShadowsPapa]

the exhaust lash adjusters don't actually stand high enough to properly locate the intake rocker arms.

So a really low lift.
The intake lash adjusters have the extra passage on the top for the dual-lift function so it makes sense they are taller.

I've lost track of the 3.6s we've had and I'm on my second Gladiator. If it ticks, it ticks and I get it fixed.

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[Charles 236]

The exhaust lash adjuster would be at maximum extension if used in the intake position, and even then there would probably be a bit of noise. Definitely driveability issues would be present. I'm glad to know that you are having good service from your Pentastars. Also glad to see that you take the effort to understand how and why they work the way they do, instead of just relying on Internet myths and legends.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The exhaust lash adjuster would be at maximum extension if used in the intake position, and even then there would probably be a bit of noise. Definitely driveability issues would be present. I'm glad to know that you are having good service from your Pentastars. Also glad to see that you take the effort to understand how and why they work the way they do, instead of just relying on Internet myths and legends.

I used to drag broken things home and take them apart to figure out how they worked. One time I went with Dad to the city landfill (I used to find tossed small engines, mower and such) and one thing I thought was an air compressor ended up being parts of a 1930s Maytag twin gas engine and at age 15 or 16, that got me into collecting and restoring antique engines.
At age 14 I took that curiosity to cars, by 16 I had my own shop doing small engine and odds and ends auto repair, and worked in a shop across town. I got to skip the first two years of automotive classes in HS and won a bet with the teacher. Still have the small engine stand he built me when he lost that bet.
I'm very curious about things - I want to know how stuff works. Science teachers loved me as I never took anything at face value and questioned everything.
If you know how something works, or why it works, you can go from there if it's not working.

As far as the internet - In the late 1990s my then boss was already calling it the "misinformation stupid highway" (a play on information super-highway)
He's right. Especially now with the money involved and Youtube where everyone can post their goofy face making silly expressions can put up a video on almost anything. Some good, some not-so-good.
There are times I wish I could shadow a real tech working on engines for a couple of days, or have access to their training materials.
My friend with Mercedes use to bring parts he'd taken off Mercedes cars to the AMC events we went to in IL and we'd talk the tech involved, how the stuff worked and so on. I remember years ago the variable runner size intake manifold. Clever - you want smaller runners for low end torque but need the volume at higher RPM. In the 70s you chose your intake based on needs, and Offy came up with a dual-plane intake, small runners for the primaries of a 4bbl, and larger parallel runners for the larger secondaries. Good low end, but not restrictive on the high end.

 

[Charles 236]

I used to drag broken things home and take them apart to figure out how they worked. One time I went with Dad to the city landfill (I used to find tossed small engines, mower and such) and one thing I thought was an air compressor ended up being parts of a 1930s Maytag twin gas engine and at age 15 or 16, that got me into collecting and restoring antique engines.
At age 14 I took that curiosity to cars, by 16 I had my own shop doing small engine and odds and ends auto repair, and worked in a shop across town. I got to skip the first two years of automotive classes in HS and won a bet with the teacher. Still have the small engine stand he built me when he lost that bet.
I'm very curious about things - I want to know how stuff works. Science teachers loved me as I never took anything at face value and questioned everything.
If you know how something works, or why it works, you can go from there if it's not working.

As far as the internet - In the late 1990s my then boss was already calling it the "misinformation stupid highway" (a play on information super-highway)
He's right. Especially now with the money involved and Youtube where everyone can post their goofy face making silly expressions can put up a video on almost anything. Some good, some not-so-good.
There are times I wish I could shadow a real tech working on engines for a couple of days, or have access to their training materials.
My friend with Mercedes use to bring parts he'd taken off Mercedes cars to the AMC events we went to in IL and we'd talk the tech involved, how the stuff worked and so on. I remember years ago the variable runner size intake manifold. Clever - you want smaller runners for low end torque but need the volume at higher RPM. In the 70s you chose your intake based on needs, and Offy came up with a dual-plane intake, small runners for the primaries of a 4bbl, and larger parallel runners for the larger secondaries. Good low end, but not restrictive on the high end.

Sounds good. I too used to take things apart to study how they worked. I paid attention in class and tried to apply science to my hot rodded cars when I could. I ended up being pretty much self taught in automotive technology, but when I went to work in the dealership I took advantage of whatever training was offered to me. That got me into courses on driveability, automatic transmissions and electronics. I even took a course on NVH that was invaluable for understanding a lot of what goes on in an automobile.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sounds good. I too used to take things apart to study how they worked. I paid attention in class and tried to apply science to my hot rodded cars when I could. I ended up being pretty much self taught in automotive technology, but when I went to work in the dealership I took advantage of whatever training was offered to me. That got me into courses on driveability, automatic transmissions and electronics. I even took a course on NVH that was invaluable for understanding a lot of what goes on in an automobile.

Man that sounds like pages out of my own history!
When the boss said "you guys are going to Omaha for xxxx training", I was all over it. I still have the handouts from those days. Great references when restoring classic cars.

 

[Hipbilly]

Long update post on my engine.....
They warrantied me at 35k miles for a pretty heavy tick, that was September of '21.
Around 58K it started again, but lightly; I had them make a note of it at that oil change. Around 64K, it really started ticking again so I took it in.

Even though I was out of warranty, they were kind enough to repair as a goodwill job and I only owed a $500 deductible. Not $0, but better than full price.
Upon doing the work, they found a burnt valve seat and replaced that under the same claim.

Once I got the truck back, I drove it for one day and the battery died and wouldn't hold a charge. I bought a new battery (it was 4 years old), and the ASS system kept showing "Start/Stop not ready, battery charging" so I figured the aux battery was shot too.
Now, a check engine light showed up and the code read "P000B bank 1 camshaft 2 position slow response" so I took it back in.

Initially they just changed the aux battery, sat on the diagnostic fee, and were going to turn it loose (since the code had gone away and didn't come back).
Then, the code returned, and they identified it as a bad phaser.

They wanted to charge $830 to change the phaser back in, and it took me quite a bit of back-and-forth to convince them it's all the same issue from the get-go.

SO, they currently still have my truck, and are doing the phaser work under a new goodwill claim with a $100 deductible.... hopefully it fixes it for good, we'll see.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They warrantied me at 35k miles for a pretty heavy tick, that was September of '21.
Around 58K it started again, but lightly; I had them make a note of it at that oil change. Around 64K, it really started ticking again so I took it in.

Even though I was out of warranty, they were kind enough to repair as a goodwill job and I only owed a $500 deductible. Not $0, but better than full price.

If you make note of the issue with them, and they note that it's not normal but can't "find the issue" at that time, if it breaks later, it's still under warranty because it was reported and noted to be a problem during the warranty time.

It's not "goodwill", it's warranty since you reported it and they noted it.
If you have an abnormal tick and they say yeah, that's not right, then a month later it's out of warranty and a cam is found to be bad - it's covered as you and they reported it.
If I report a leak and they are too busy to fix it today, and a month later I take it in and it's out of warranty, it's covered since it was reported and recorded, regardless of if it was fixed then or not.

Damn, you got 4 years on a Jeep battery? call the Guinness Book of World Records people! That's totally amazing. (and have a Guinness while you are at it)

 

[Alpine Warthog]

Dang, this has got me scared. just topped over 37K and the thing sounds like a diesel at start up. been that way since I brought it home at 21K miles. Always thought it was too loud but assumed it was normal?

 

[Chadnutz]

My shredded cam was replaced under warranty at around 51k miles. I could hear ticking not so much on startup, but while driving. Always random. Not like tick tick tick matching engine speed.

Now I have around 75k miles and I'm no longer under warranty. I am hearing the same ticking again. Not sure how Jeep will handle it depending on the side it is on. I'm not paying them full price to fix it when it fails. If they want that I'll have to do it myself, but then it seems this job may end up being routine maintenance.

Ridiculous that I can't get even 50k miles out of an engine. I keep vehicles for a LONG time. This is my first new vehicle of my life and I'm 42. It seems it is also the least reliable of any vehicle I have owned, back to a MY 1991. At some point before this Jeep we had a 1996 F350 (still have), a 2005 BMW 330, and a 2006 Chevy 1500. Total miles from the three was somewhere around 640,000.

 

[Chadnutz]

That is a good question. MOPAR parts warranty is 24 months unlimited mileage but I do not know if that extends to existing warranty repairs.

I need to know this. Mine was repaired 1 year ago and it seems like it's doing it again. No code yet. No loss in power. Fuel economy may be a little down, but not as much as last time yet.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My shredded cam was replaced under warranty at around 51k miles. I could hear ticking not so much on startup, but while driving. Always random. Not like tick tick tick matching engine speed.

Now I have around 75k miles and I'm no longer under warranty. I am hearing the same ticking again. Not sure how Jeep will handle it depending on the side it is on. I'm not paying them full price to fix it when it fails. If they want that I'll have to do it myself, but then it seems this job may end up being routine maintenance.

Ridiculous that I can't get even 50k miles out of an engine. I keep vehicles for a LONG time. This is my first new vehicle of my life and I'm 42. It seems it is also the least reliable of any vehicle I have owned, back to a MY 1991. At some point before this Jeep we had a 1996 F350 (still have), a 2005 BMW 330, and a 2006 Chevy 1500. Total miles from the three was somewhere around 640,000.

You don't state what year it is................
2020 had issues with cam and followers.
Later years don't seem to have the same issues, however, there's a TSB for ticking sound accompanied by certain codes.
In that case it's lash adjusters.
So a tick can be caused by any one of multiple things - doesn't mean it's doing the same thing for the same reason caused by the same part.
I'm on my 2nd JT - first was a 2020 - smooth and very quiet. My current one is a 2022 - smooth and very quiet. My wife has had several Grand Cherokees with the both versions of the 3.6 - very smooth and quiet engines. Really easy to exit the vehicle and forget to shut it off, so quiet and smooth.
In fact my son did just that - twice - when driving my 2022 JT this summer. He'd pull up to a stop and open the door and get out and the thing just sat there running - in gear.
He was used to his EV where that exactly what you did. Stop and get out.
Anyway, in your case, it's time for a diagnosis - could be cam (which side?) or follower (which side) or lash adjuster (again.............)

Unfortunately for you or any car or truck owner, a shop is going to want to charge a diagnostic fee to find out what the sound is and where it's coming from.............. if the dealership says no warranty, contact Jeep customer care, and nicely explain exactly what happened the last time and when and find out if they'll bend on the warranty - that is IF it's the same thing caused by the same parts again. If it's a different side, different parts, they may not because now it's not the same thing/same parts.

 

[Chadnutz]

You don't state what year it is................

2020

 

[Sandman21]

My shredded cam was replaced under warranty at around 51k miles. I could hear ticking not so much on startup, but while driving. Always random. Not like tick tick tick matching engine speed.

Now I have around 75k miles and I'm no longer under warranty. I am hearing the same ticking again. Not sure how Jeep will handle it depending on the side it is on. I'm not paying them full price to fix it when it fails. If they want that I'll have to do it myself, but then it seems this job may end up being routine maintenance.

Ridiculous that I can't get even 50k miles out of an engine. I keep vehicles for a LONG time. This is my first new vehicle of my life and I'm 42. It seems it is also the least reliable of any vehicle I have owned, back to a MY 1991. At some point before this Jeep we had a 1996 F350 (still have), a 2005 BMW 330, and a 2006 Chevy 1500. Total miles from the three was somewhere around 640,000.

Yeah that was my fear exactly! After 3rd fix at the dealer, 2 days later I wasn’t hearing same ticking noise but similar coming from the front. I wasn’t about to take it back after almost month and a half. Looked around some dealers online and found some good prices. Traded it in for JT Rubicon! Not the good feeling I would expect when getting a Rubicon given I felt forced into it and loved my Gobi JT. Had to sprint home and in 6 hours take off 10 mods I’d done over the 3 years of ownership. Grateful that I’m able to drive a JTR though it’s just taken some time to get over the bad experience.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

2020

unfortunately, 2020 model year was the model year most problematic as far as cams and followers.
If it was out of warranty and I was paying out of pocket, OR, was doing the work myself (likely not, they are watching my heart closely and leaning over fenders may be going over the way-side for this guy) -anyway, either way, me doing it or someone else, IF it was cams - I'd replace cams, followers AND lash adjusters because there was something going on in 2020 and it was a problem with oil delivery from the lash adjusters, for the low price that lash adjusters are, I'd replace those as well and then know that I had the whole valve train taken care of (less valves, springs, retainers, VVL solenoids, etc.)
If there were cam problems with enough wear and/or material missing, I'd follow the work with a couple quick sequence oil/filter changes. I'd do an oil change right away, drive just a couple hundred miles or so and change it again and have that oil looked at closely - visually inspected, and sent to a lab for analysis.


What I'd do right now is drive it for 30 minutes minimum, park it in may garage, right away pull an oil sample via the dipstick tube and get the oil analyzed by someone like Blackstone.
Depending on the exact findings, that will tell you at least a bit of where the issue is right now.

Anyone with an abnormal noise can at least get an idea by the metals found in the oil - bearing wear will be a lot different from cam lob or follower wear, for example.

For me, i need to actually hear first-hand, not via video or description, a sound, to have even a 70/30 chance at figuring out what the sound may be.

 

[briscoelab]

Yeah that was my fear exactly! After 3rd fix at the dealer, 2 days later I wasn’t hearing same ticking noise but similar coming from the front. I wasn’t about to take it back after almost month and a half. Looked around some dealers online and found some good prices. Traded it in for JT Rubicon! Not the good feeling I would expect when getting a Rubicon given I felt forced into it and loved my Gobi JT. Had to sprint home and in 6 hours take off 10 mods I’d done over the 3 years of ownership. Grateful that I’m able to drive a JTR though it’s just taken some time to get over the bad experience.

FYI, we traded our 2020 Launch Edition in a couple weeks ago. Given its issues, I just didn't feel right selling it directly to another person, even though it had some nice mods and was in fantastic condition. I had to go through the same thing... "de-modding". Sold the RSI smart cap, reinstalled the factory bed cover, removed twin ARB, Warn winch, etc. Only stuff I left was the Mopar 2" and the 315/70r17 KO2 that were nearing the end of the line anyway. This was planned since May though, we when ordered a Rubicon X 4XE Wrangler (we have a Rubicon JT diesel that is staying put), which finally came in.

We had some awful clacking, described earlier in this thread, at around 42k miles and the dealership replaced the passenger side cam and associated parts. They didn't change the oil though... so stupid. But, I changed it the next day at home. All was good for about 3000 miles and it started making noises again. Dealer claimed it was "normal" and within specs. Granted, it was nothing like the initial noises. But it was a definite change and you could tell it was progressing.

Honestly, we loved that truck, but it had gremlins for sure. All the hinges were showing sings of the paint issues so many have... but we didn't push to have those addressed since we knew it was going away (and likely before we could get them repaired under warranty). Also had a couple good chips in the windshield, near the borders though... so not obvious at a quick glance.

I'm a hobby detailer on our own vehicles, so they are well cared for body/interior. So I cleaned it up decently inside and out. Dealership didn't even wash it. Marked it CPO, put it on the lot and it sold in about 4 days. LOL. At least the new buyer gets an extended powertrain to 100k miles with the CPO.

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