Noticed oil smoke on start up

[Sandevino]

Nothing but some troubleshooting. no problem found was the answer and it still does it. I was told as long as its running its ok.

Oh the fun I could have with that one...

Sponsored

 

[Fx03gladi1]

FCA approved a 4 point check and nothing. I asked for an engine they said the vehicle had to have engine failure

Nothing but some troubleshooting. no problem found was the answer and it still does it. I was told as long as its running its ok.

Thanks for update. Sounds like you've taken the right steps and it's been documented!

 

[Lunentucker]

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

[ShadowsPapa]

FCA approved a 4 point check and nothing. I asked for an engine they said the vehicle had to have engine failure

Nothing but some troubleshooting. no problem found was the answer and it still does it. I was told as long as its running its ok.

Frankly, it almost sounds like a nothing thing to me.
And you can't "ask for an engine" - sorry but that's silly over such a minor thing - a puff when it starts and you really can't swear exactly what it is.

It's really easy to tell if there's an oil problem:
Oil level will drop after a couple thousand miles - measurably on the stick,
Pulling spark plugs will tell a story,
a scop in the spark plug hole or through the intake manifold to look at the back side of the valves.

You won't get an engine over valve seals - no one one their right mind would do that, and IF and this is an IF because you can't prove and don't know for a fact otherwise, if the puff is due to valve seal issues. You swap heads in the case of a dealer, or in my shop, I'd find the issue and fix it.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

That's well fine and good but won't say anything about a start-up puff IF it's oil and IF it's due to valve seals.

Too many myths and urban legends in threads like this - I've worked on too many cars and trucks to even try to keep track of over decades and people who follow the books don't ruin engines like people here believe the old timers saying. They don't do the first change at 500 miles and they don't do other changes at 3,000 and they get over 100,000 miles without trouble. Heck, I've pulled heads off engines to do valve seals or valve jobs and looked at the cylinders and found no ridge - and the hone cross-hatch marks were still in the cylinders - and the customer followed the book.
They don't do that to "sell more cars" - that's bull shit.
In fact, the cars that last longest get the most customers because people talk. If that car only goes 70,000 miles you won't be buying another one of THAT brand. You will find out which ones last over 100,000 miles and go with that brand. It was a big struggle in the 70s to get engines and cars in general to last longer for customer retention and to pull in new customers.
So this bit about "they want it to fail" is just crap. No, they do not. they don't win customers, they don't get repeat business from engines lasting under 100,000 miles. They get customers with engines that last longer. You don't go back and keep buying things with short lives - you move on to someone else. It's why the Japanese did so well - things lasted longer, U.S. automakers lost because their vehicles fell apart.
Don't buy into that bunk that's been posted in this thread and elsewhere about "the book is so that the engines will fail". Wrong.
They've had longer oil change intervals for 50 years so it's nothing new - and that was with older technology and worse oils. 1970 - change oil every 7500 miles. So you think that today you can't go that far and long?

 

[Shopshirt]

If it's oil, could be as simple as a bad pcv valve. Had a truck, not Gladiator, that started doing that puff of smoke on startup and a new pcv valve fixed it.

 

[Max-t]

9300 miles before first change??? All of those particles of metal from new engine wear floating around in there and they tell you 9300 miles??? ........

I use a filter. But yea mine generally complain at 7000 or so and if I get one new I change it pretty soon after buying it.

 

[Max-t]

I’m surprised at the reactions that people have thinking that a car company would expect you to buy another of their vehicles after deliberately sabotaging their reputation.
Turns out, they don’t really care a whole lot about the 8+ year 150000 mile plus used market, but happy customers are repeat buyers. Ask Toyota. They make objectively ugly and boring cars with generally bad mpg and low features but they sell based on reliability. Even though they’re on the road forever, they still sell more than everyone else (usually). Even bmw WANTS to build a reliable car, they just can’t keep costs down. It’s a balancing act. And now a days people want computers in their cars.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If it's oil, could be as simple as a bad pcv valve. Had a truck, not Gladiator, that started doing that puff of smoke on startup and a new pcv valve fixed it.

And there have been some bad ones - there's a TSB about the PCV causing carbon build-up.
Yeah very possible.

And now a days people want computers in their cars.

Read some of the latest from JD Powers - and reports on what the youngest generation is thumbing their noses at.
Satisfaction has gone down 2 years in a row - and some of the biggest complaints is "too many electronics". Odd, that sort of matches a lot of Jeep JT Sport owners' thinking.

the latest generation to enter the car buying arena also is bad news for Carvana and others - they very much prefer going to a dealership, asking questions and test driving multiple vehicles. They do not like buying cars online

Most people now prefer to have their phone be their electronics, not the built-in systems. (I've been participating in such studies lately myself). The bulk of younger buyers don't want the infotainment to do it, they want the phone to link to the vehicle and use their phone for those things -music navigation and so on.

 

[Choatecav]

Actually the oil life monitor is programmed to "change oil soon " at 10,000 miles. What do you think about that?

Well, without being too direct and abrupt........ I think it is a total load of crap.

Oil technology and lubricants in general have definitely advanced, but the laws of metallurgy and physics are still in place. A new engine wears off burrs and slight imperfections during the break in period. Those pieces are still floating around in the oil doing damage at some level.

Remember, the company that makes those "recommendations" also make the vehicles and once the engine wears out, many/most will go back and buy another Jeep or whatever. It is not in their best interest for anyone to get 250,000 miles out of an engine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Actually the oil life monitor is programmed to "change oil soon " at 10,000 miles. What do you think about that?

You are an aircraft mechanic??

No, that monitor is "programmed" to take into account engine temperatures, torque output (to see if you are towing), and many other factors - including length of the drive, minutes (actually in seconds) the engine has been running and more.
It will change from that 10,000 down to 8,000, even 7,000 miles if it detects short drives with low engine temperatures and high torque output.
I watched mine drop several percent just over a short time towing - it was literally cutting the miles left down at a much faster rate than normal.
That 100% life for 10,000 miles is only for ideal conditions.
I've seen that 100% drop faster under less than ideal use, so you aren't correct about how it works.

You don't seem to know a lot about engines or how the oil life monitor works.

 

[TroutFishingInAmerica]

Yes, an aircraft mechanic and not interested in becoming an auto mechanic.

Me too, A&P. Retired now and haven't touched an amazing flying machine in years. Was a good gig. I can't complain.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Engines are engines, all the same principals even if the parts are organized differently from I to V to flat to radial to an inverted Ranger 440 training aircraft engine (a friend has one he displays at our engine shows), to a multi-rotor Wankel in an old Mazda, to a 1936 Farmall F20 or the V-twin Kawasaki on your JD lawn tractor, or the 110 year old Chapman stationary engine.

Like said - the color (and even smell) of the smoke is what matters. Of course the catalytic converters on these can skew things, making it not as cut and dried as it was in 1970, but still.....
Valves run in guides that can wear, and have seals that can break or wear.
Rings - same principal in anything - hold combustion pressure and gases in, allow an very thin oil film on the cylinder, scrape the rest back into the crankcase. If worn or broken, they can't do their job. Easier to determine a ring issue than some other issues.
Since the 1960s, domestically made vehicle engines have had PCV - positive crankcase ventilation - valves. They maintain a vacuum in the crankcase and purge it of moisture and acidic combustion gases that get past even great rings. The vacuum helps seal the rings as well.
On some V configuration engines where the intake manifold is also the valley cover, a manifold gasket leak can result in oil consumption.

So there's some ways oil can get in. How and when the smoke presents itself, and when it does not can be indicative of where the issue may lie - clues.
Smoke when first started - the moment it starts, not 20 seconds later, and under very high vacuum conditions (deceleration, like a downshift, etc.) can indicate valve seals.
You can burn oil past valve seals without it getting into the combustion chamber!
People think - oh, that's going to be showing up on the plugs, or it's being burned in the chamber. No, on some engines the exiting exhaust gases form a low pressure area (the venturi effect) and can actually pull oil down past exhaust valves where it burns in the exiting exhaust and forms carbon/oil deposits on the exhaust valves, not the intake valves.

 

[Todd Fourmy]

Engines are engines, all the same principals even if the parts are organized differently from I to V to flat to radial to an inverted Ranger 440 training aircraft engine (a friend has one he displays at our engine shows), to a multi-rotor Wankel in an old Mazda, to a 1936 Farmall F20 or the V-twin Kawasaki on your JD lawn tractor, or the 110 year old Chapman stationary engine.

Like said - the color (and even smell) of the smoke is what matters. Of course the catalytic converters on these can skew things, making it not as cut and dried as it was in 1970, but still.....
Valves run in guides that can wear, and have seals that can break or wear.
Rings - same principal in anything - hold combustion pressure and gases in, allow an very thin oil film on the cylinder, scrape the rest back into the crankcase. If worn or broken, they can't do their job. Easier to determine a ring issue than some other issues.
Since the 1960s, domestically made vehicle engines have had PCV - positive crankcase ventilation - valves. They maintain a vacuum in the crankcase and purge it of moisture and acidic combustion gases that get past even great rings. The vacuum helps seal the rings as well.
On some V configuration engines where the intake manifold is also the valley cover, a manifold gasket leak can result in oil consumption.

So there's some ways oil can get in. How and when the smoke presents itself, and when it does not can be indicative of where the issue may lie - clues.
Smoke when first started - the moment it starts, not 20 seconds later, and under very high vacuum conditions (deceleration, like a downshift, etc.) can indicate valve seals.
You can burn oil past valve seals without it getting into the combustion chamber!
People think - oh, that's going to be showing up on the plugs, or it's being burned in the chamber. No, on some engines the exiting exhaust gases form a low pressure area (the venturi effect) and can actually pull oil down past exhaust valves where it burns in the exiting exhaust and forms carbon/oil deposits on the exhaust valves, not the intake valves.

I'd like to know how to upload the video I made. I did Zip because the forum said it was too large. and it opened on my computer but wasn't trying to spread a virus. Sorry.

 

[Girth13]

I'm having the same issue from my '22 JTR 3.6. Bluish smoke immediately at random startups. No consistent variables leading up to each occurrence which makes it difficult to replicate. The very first time I noticed the smoke, a very large plume of bluish nastiness, was a couple of days after my first oil change around 4500 miles. Oil level was spot on. Made an appointment with my dealer and while I was waiting a week for my appointment it happened randomly, though not as heavy as the first time, more of a puff. Luckily I was able to take several videos. Took my truck to my dealership, shared my videos, and we immediately started an oil consumption test witch delivered negative results because of the randomness of the puffs. Mechanic confirmed it is oil burning but not burning enough to register. Hell, the tailpipe is still fairly clean.
I now have 17000 miles and it still puffs randomly at startup, and, on very rare occasions, it puffs out a large cloud. I'll be contacting my dealership for round two of diagnosing and hopefully they will be able to figure this out. I'm hopeful that it's a relatively simple fix like a PCV valve. The randomness of it is very puzzling. The squeaking in my video is not my Jeep, it's a school bus stopping.

 

[Todd Fourmy]

Do what the dealership says. It is your only option. I hope if more people see this and check their vehicles it will cause some change. 36K on mine and when run it hard it will smoke on the first start after. How did you upload your video to the forum.? I emailed it to myself and the forum says its too large to up load.?? I got drilled by some members before, they thought i was trying to up load a virus. If some how you could email or text me i could text my video, of several.

Sponsored