The people who order at dealerships

[Redfour5]

It may apply to zip codes, but they did it last month also while I was in the initial stages of buying, looking. They had the you have to take possession message to 12/1 for my zip code and then they reduced it to 10%...grrr. This month they got rid of it completely on everything except Rubicons, Oh you can get the 6.9% for 60 months...on whatever the dealer will reduce it. It was good in the morning when they did my credit check, good after noon my time when they took my deposit and then just like it never happened just like last week. Where are those jeep cares people...

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[muanis]

I feel you. But it is not people at dealership, as someone said, dealers order their lot with what sells, cup holders for stanley cups win.

I still remember when I factory ordered my BMW X3 because I wanted the integrated hitch and not some crap ugly after market. There wasn’t a single car in a 200 miles radius with one. Yeah I also added a ton of other stuff and removed crap I didn’t want.

 

[NVjeff]

If the dealership took your deposit it sounds like you had a deal.
Now they won't honor it because Stellantis suspended the discounts?

Or did you need to actually take delivery before the discounts were suspended?

 

[Koolcarguy]

Rule number 1: 98% of car salesmen don't know shit about cars.
Rule number 2: the people who get promoted up from salesman are the people who sell cars the best, not the people with the most product knowledge.
Rule number 3: 99.5% of customers don't know shit about cars, so the 2% of salesmen who know their business only rarely ever meet a customer where their knowledge is appreciated.

What this all leaves you with is what you're seeing: regions of the country that should be optioning 4A and LSD on their entire fleet (at least models where this is possible) just aren't, and there aren't enough customer who notice or care to make dealerships care to change.

I take it you've only bought new cars from big city high volume dealerships? Thats not at all the way it is around here....I ran a Jeep store a few years and have done sales seminars here for local dealerships and thats not the training they get here. If your numbers are true or even close I would find a new Cdjr dealership.....

 

[Redfour5]

If the dealership took your deposit it sounds like you had a deal.
Now they won't honor it because Stellantis suspended the discounts?

Or did you need to actually take delivery before the discounts were suspended?

It's the Stellantis incentive wording that hangs you up. I've called and spoken with someone. You must "take retail delivery by January 1" It apparently stops deals cold unless you are holding the keys in your hand after signing the papers... The local sales manager said, it's like they want to get rid of them but since there are no 24's coming in the incentives are like a spigot they are turning off and on based upon what's on the lots. They don't want to empty the lots just do a transition on the few 23's in the transit pipeline and the new 24's starting to feed into the pipeline. In fact, as I was looking this morning, my local dealer has one 2024 on his lot according to CarGurus. He has been completely out for a month so might have gotten one of the first ones. NO deals on it...

Right now within 300 miles of me there are 96 Rubicons on lots, the next closest are sports X's at about 50. So, they still have the 15% off on Rubicons, all others are ONLY the 6.9% for 72 months...for...my...zip...code. Last month, they started with all at 15% off then on the 15th moved most of them to 10% off incentives except the Sports... AND it is by zip code levels where it occurs. The dealers I've been working with some still had the 15% off in their zip code but incentives are tied to where YOU live as a customer. So, I can buy from a dealer that "lives" in a 15% off zip code but when I purchase, my zip code won't allow the systems to give me the 15% off. I suppose you could claim an address if you have a relative there, but for me in Montana with zero sales tax, I'm not going to pay a sales tax in another state like 7 to 9% that takes away most of the incentive...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If the dealership took your deposit it sounds like you had a deal.
Now they won't honor it because Stellantis suspended the discounts?

Or did you need to actually take delivery before the discounts were suspended?

The incentives posted online don't say when they are going to actually end, so that gets tricky. They are there one day, gone the next, but the worst of it is that "must take delivery by xx/xx/yyyy.
So if it's on a truck and coming to the dealership, and the incentive "must take deliver by....." date is today and the thing arrives tomorrow, it's a problem in the legal wording of the thing.
It's pretty much intended to get you to go to the lot, pick one out, and make the whole deal and pick it up before the date in that incentive post.

Click on "show disclosure" link and you get this -

So that means you need to go in on the 26th, get your ducks in a row (or dogs if you don't like ducks) and sign the papers and have the FOB in your hand by 1/2/24 for it to apply.

Can the DEALER give you that same deal if there's a hitch in getting the truck to them, or getting together on signing the papers?
That I'd like to know.

 

[jac04]

Yup, dealerships order what sells. Many people just figure that the JT has 'four wheel drive' so that's going to be good enough for them, not even realizing that Selec-Trac exists.

My dealership story: Back in 2019, I went to the local Volvo dealer to order a V60 wagon with a silver exterior and amber leather interior. I was prepared to put my deposit down and pay the full amount in cash when the vehicle arrived. The manager of the dealership refused to order it because he said that he would have a hard time selling it if I backed out. I bought an Audi Allroad instead.

 

[Redfour5]

The incentives posted online don't say when they are going to actually end, so that gets tricky. They are there one day, gone the next, but the worst of it is that "must take delivery by xx/xx/yyyy.
So if it's on a truck and coming to the dealership, and the incentive "must take deliver by....." date is today and the thing arrives tomorrow, it's a problem in the legal wording of the thing.
It's pretty much intended to get you to go to the lot, pick one out, and make the whole deal and pick it up before the date in that incentive post.

Click on "show disclosure" link and you get this -

So that means you need to go in on the 26th, get your ducks in a row (or dogs if you don't like ducks) and sign the papers and have the FOB in your hand by 1/2/24 for it to apply.

Can the DEALER give you that same deal if there's a hitch in getting the truck to them, or getting together on signing the papers?
That I'd like to know.

I'm pretty sure, if you have all the papers signed and they have put the sale into their selling system for Stellantis that is considered "retail delivery" for them. If its physically on a truck between dealerships I don't think they care... Last month, it was my local dealer who was working on a possible transfer from one Lithia to another they would match the deal who called me on the 15th of November and told me that late on the 14th their local rep sent that the change would happen overnight to reduce from 15% to 10% on most trims. He showed me the email and the sales guy from regional Stellantis said he was sorry but all deals had to be done that day or not at all and that he didn't know about it until a conference call just before he sent the email to the dealers in his area. He said he hadn't seen anything like that before just stopping a national sale advertising an end date in the middle of a month... They were the ones that told me it was like a "spigot" Stellantis was doing at the national level looking at things pretty molecularly apparently...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Just a GUESS, here, but one might consider this -
SelecTrac, I'll call 4HA (4 high auto) for simplicity since Rubicon still uses the RockTrac name whether or not it has the 4HA option...............
anyway, 4HA is not an option in the 4xe - it's standard.
The JLU 4xe is a hot seller - they've sold well over 100,000 of them.
That's a lot of those transfer cases going out.
Jeep tries to concentrate, like any company would, where they get the most bang for their own buck, and keep moving what's selling hot.
With the STILL existing shortages of things, and still existing supply chain and delivery issues going on, there may be a very real limit to the number of those transfer cases they can get.
Since it's not an option for the 4xe Wrangler - I suspect a lot of those transfer cases are going that direction. If there's not a huge demand for them elsewhere - dealers are not ordering them and customers aren't demanding them, many not even getting the differences, it makes sense to me - the existing supply is mostly going to JL 4xe builds.

The 4HA option was a reason I traded my 2020 for a 22 - among a couple of other reasons.
For my wife, it was a must have - she comes from the Grand Cherokee and doesn't have the ability to constantly be messing with shifting a transfer case in and out, especially when it's not always that easy to do. So that was a limiting factor for us and one reason she ended up with the 4xe - that transfer case was standard, I could not find a reign Wrangler with the SelecTrac/RockTrac transfer case anywhere in the country.

 

[Stan H]

I'm about to close a deal right now Nov 2023 15% incentive and I'm a long time Ram Truck owner, Renegade (getting traded) wife with a Cherokee. I research and scour details on CDJR vehicles.

The people AT DEALERSHIPS who order ought to often be shot. You can tell dealerships where the person who orders KNOWS what they are doing and not. I cannot believe how many are ordered without the trac lock limited slip differential. I mean like the majority of them on lots do NOT have lots of what I consider important things. Trac Lock is one of these imho. I guess if you live in a few places where it never rains or snows much you don't need it, but it is a basic safety feature...

Further, I also wanted Selec Trac (having had the auto 4WD/same thing on Ram 1500's) and a limited slip diff Trac Lock. It was almost impossible to find. I could order but don't like some of the changes on 24's and sure ain't gonna get the incentives on those till next November. I finally found a couple at a dealership who made sure ALL models had the trac lock at a minimum. You will find a few dealerships where it is obviously ordered as a standard...at least up here in Montana, but most dealerships and vehicles on lots don't have it and that goes right to the guy who orders them or maybe the general manager who tries to cut costs knowing most buyers won't know the difference.

I asked where I'm buying and the only place I could find with both Selec Trac and Trac Lock and the guy who did the orders, one was a Gladiator owner, but two knew his stuff under the hood on all the CDJR vehicles. Now you need to understand we live in the mountains, him in Idaho me in Montana but considering that he said he thought the LSD (Trac Lock) was an essential component and I agreed. He said Selec Lock essentially a front and back AWD gave you the best of both worlds. I pointed out in agreement my 2013 Ram 1500 that ONLY had the 4WD like most Gladiators. Simply escaping from the mailboxes in my neighborhood was a bear with their polished ice and snow and irregular surface... But my 2015 Ram 1500 had the limited slip and no problem at the mailboxes. My 2021 had the auto 4WD auto/Selec Trac and limited slip and it was awesome. We usually have a month to six week period in the spring and shorter period in the fall where our roads are blacktop interspersed with long areas with snow and ice. They do NOT plow our roads down to blacktop like back east. They plow down to about a couple of inches of slushy snow and you deal... It's a PITA reaching down and turning 4WD on and off... Selec Trac does it by itself.

Being retired, researching is my thing and a generalization I've learned is that if you are looking and you find a dealer where most if not all of them have at least Trac Lock, you know you gotta a dealership where the person who orders is pretty good at it if his general manager lets him... Most general managers don't know either so don't interfere, but a few micromanage everything. Just depends.

Trac Lock is just a limited slip differential and Rubicons dont have this or is it available if I am not mistaken it isnt available ona Mojave either . Because it isn't needed. Both models can run in the high side in 4 wheel drive with the rear diff locked.
Select track isn't in my opinion much of a thing. Thatvbeen around since Ford put a NP 203 transfer case in the Ford 3/4 tons trucks which started in 4 wheel drive and then transfer case came out of 4 wheel at 35 mph and right back in under 35mph. Select track is similar it is based on speed. I pull the lever I'm in push I'm out easy peavey lemon squeeze. I had a Ford with the NP 203 put a upgrade kit in it to get rid of that . It was a pain in the behind.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Select track isn't in my opinion much of a thing. Thatvbeen around since Ford put a NP 203 transfer case in the Ford 3/4 tons trucks which started in 4 wheel drive and then transfer case came out of 4 wheel at 35 mph and right back in under 35mph. Select track is similar it is based on speed. I pull the lever I'm in push I'm out easy peavey lemon squeeze. I had a Ford with the NP 203 put a upgrade kit in it to get rid of that . It was a pain in the behind.

Very different system. Not really comparable. It's not based on speed alone, but throttle position, and other factors as well. And the throttle position can change how it acts regardless of road speed.
Once you've used one of these, you'll see the difference and why they are standard on the 4xe.
I've posted JSCAN screen shots of the clutch packs in these transfer cases in action at various speeds and throttle positions and so on. It's not even close to a speed based system where it's in our out based on speed.
It's a heck of a lot better than having to constantly shift the transfer case in and out of 4H in road conditions like ours where you can drive 10 miles and have to shift almost 20 times - bare pavement, snow pack, clear pavement, a drift, clear pavement and so on.

 

[Stan H]

So it works off of wheel slippage ? If its so good let me ask you this how come that transfer case isn't in Ever single Jeep every single one.
I dont buy into it completely. Also it seems to only be compatible with a limited slip rear-end ?
Which tell me the rear-end has to be semi-locked most of the time. Which makes a mostly pavement option. Not a true comparible to the spider/locker combo of the Rubicon and Mojave Rear-ends. Am I correct in my thinking?

 

[Kevin_D]

The people AT DEALERSHIPS who order ought to often be shot. You can tell dealerships where the person who orders KNOWS what they are doing and not. I cannot believe how many are ordered without the trac lock limited slip differential. I mean like the majority of them on lots do NOT have lots of what I consider important things. Trac Lock is one of these imho. I guess if you live in a few places where it never rains or snows much you don't need it, but it is a basic safety feature...

I wanted a TracLoc, too.
Then I was reading up on the traction control, and read about the Brake Lock Differential feature in the traction control, and many of my concerns were assuaged.
The BLD acts more or less like TracLoc. I've found it works well enough for getting around the mountains in eastern WA and northern ID.

Kevin

 

[ZoMojave]

That blows. Maybe that's regional? Everywhere here I see it in print it expires 1/2. I've a feeling they'll extend it into 2024, since so many are still unsold.

In the fine print it states, "residency restrictions apply".

 

[Redfour5]

I wanted a TracLoc, too.
Then I was reading up on the traction control, and read about the Brake Lock Differential feature in the traction control, and many of my concerns were assuaged.
The BLD acts more or less like TracLoc. I've found it works well enough for getting around the mountains in eastern WA and northern ID.

Kevin

Yes, computers have compensated to a great degree for what used to be strictly a mechanical fix. But, I still always go back to the mailbox section in my neighborhood. Everyone has to go there. It has a slight incline and is unpaved and has ruts. When it snows it gets sort of plowed... Within days it is polished ice and occasionally someone will throw some sand/grit down.

The ruts are the only thing that keeps people from sliding into the boxes or onto the road as they leave the boxes. Well, my 2013 Ram had the traction control but NO LSD. I slid feeling the traction control making an attempt to do something. I usually had to turn on 4WD to move. My 2015 had the LSD and it was no problem. You could feel it slip and shift the torque to the other side distinctly and it might go back and forth for like a split second but it would grab and there was zero problem So, I know there is a difference. My 2021 Ram 1500 had the "auto" 4WD (same as selec trac) and the LSD (same as trac Lock) and was obviously superior to both as you could feel it do everything front back and sideways... On March/April Montana thawing roads it was wonderful. Half a mile of slushy ice, half mile of clear pavement, never having to push a button to activate 4WD...

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