Scout Tuktut - Official Thread

[darkhorse13]

Looks cool. Is this a universal design or was it specifically engineered for the Glady's?

It is Scout's offering for the short bed midsize truck line up. So technically yes, it's a universal design.

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[AstroZombie]

It is Scout's offering for the short bed midsize truck line up. So technically yes, it's a universal design.

Yeah, i guess that is what i meant a design for a 5 foot bed

 

[NotSo Bright White]

Nice! That looks like it'll work great. And help with one of the problems with wedge campers like mine, that you always end up head at the rear and frequently lose your pillows downstairs

I had the same problem of pillows falling off the cliff. I purchased a Big Agnes double sleeping bag and it has pockets for the pillows that keeps them from falling down into the abyss. Very warm too and roomy too!

https://www.rei.com/product/203950/...V-MvCBB251wGjEAQYASABEgJ_4_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[ScottBeach]

Curious what do you think the lean over angle might be reduced to? I would be worried about taking any track off line that might break 15 degrees

 

[darkhorse13]

Curious what do you think the lean over angle might be reduced to? I would be worried about taking any track off line that might break 15 degrees

That's a great question. I'm sure it's differs with the amount of lift. At one point I remember asking Scout the weight bias percentages from the bed to the roof. I recall them saying of course that most of the weight is below the bed line then it progressively gets lighter up to the roof. I'll reach out to ask again.

 

[JTGuy]

I think the top 12+ inches would be better as a pop up design. Less wind drag and a lower CG.

 

[darkhorse13]

I think the top 12+ inches would be better as a pop up design. Less wind drag and a lower CG.

Correct, that would help with wind and COG. There are a number of companies with "pop-up" campers on the market already (i.e AT Overland, Alu-Cab, Four Wheel Campers, OVRLND Campers, GFC, Harker Campers) that are lighter, cheaper and more aerodynamic, but they are not fully hard-sided like the Scout.

The appeal (or non-appeal) of the Scout is that it requires no setup, is more 4-season oriented and can still allow for stealth camping. As our overlanding adventures change, my wife and I have no disillusions of "wheeling" this camper like we did with previous RTT setups. We will still be able to travel to our favorite remote locations in Utah/CO/NM, but we'll loose access to some of our go-to spots in the wooded trails of CO.

 

[BearFootSam]

Trust me, when my wife and I first saw these last year we were not keen on "the look". After spending time with friends and the shop guys at Juniper Overland in these (Yoho and Olympic versions), we became used-to the look and the comfort of them met our needs. We've been in a RTT for the past 6 years in CO and this is our next chapter of camping.

I'm not going to take offense to any of the comments here... everyone has their own opinions and I know that I'm guilty of not always "preferring" others build choices as well. Just hoping to shed light on the Scout Tuktut for people considering this camper.

I’ll say I appreciate your congenial attitude.

Having spent many nights in our RTT I can see the advantages but also limitations. When I bought the JT one thought was that it would be able to manage the weight of the tent and gear with a more suitable CoG. Which is to say on some trails in CO, UT, MT, the prior vehicle was too compromised by the 160# tent (heavy canvas and aluminum 3pax model). I also didn’t like being at the max GVWR with the tent, foood and water for 10 days unsupported and three people while also working the vehicle at capability limits. Moving up to the JTR 1,000lbs of people and gear would ride a lot better with lower chance of breaking something and less degradation of trail ability.

So I guess my point is that while you still have a very capable vehicle, being at the margin of weight capacity in addition to a very high CoG you will have to make serious compromises about where you go, especially in CO. I’m thinking specifically of H2O. We camped a week between lake city and Silverton and though there were running streams (end of may), many of those in that area are polluted by century ago mining and at least I won't trust arsenic to the MSR. Proving you must carry it, alotting 3ga/pp/day that weight accrues quickly to several hundred pounds. With such a nice rig you are going to be tempted to over weight excessively or find yourself watching your tanks trying to judge when it's time to roll with a safety margin. Obviously pushing into desert locales negates the purity concerns when there ain't no water period and so you carry it and more of it.

Of course you acknowledged these limitations but to me and for where the jeep as a platform is capable of taking you it's an odd choice. Why not use a 2500 that could carry twice or triple the payload and be no less capable than a similarly laden JT?

 

[Free2roam]

Correct, that would help with wind and COG. There are a number of companies with "pop-up" campers on the market already (i.e AT Overland, Alu-Cab, Four Wheel Campers, OVRLND Campers, GFC, Harker Campers) that are lighter, cheaper and more aerodynamic, but they are not fully hard-sided like the Scout.

The only two that I can think of that are also hard sided are the Ross monster, Hiatus, and Topotooper. Ross monster being the baddest looking one of the three.

 

[darkhorse13]

Why not use a 2500 that could carry twice or triple the payload and be no less capable than a similarly laden JT?

First off, I completely agree with your assessment of weight, water and CoG. Unfortunately I'm guilty of "overloading" my Gladiator even with my old set-up of AluCab RTT and Contour Canopy Topper. It's just my wife and myself so we are not packing in as much as a family of 3+ or even an additional pet. Now with the Scout we'll be even more conscious.

In regard to the quote above... 100% we'll head down the full size diesel route with likely a 3500 Ram if this year's experience with a slide-in camper is something we enjoy. For now we enjoy mid-size truck life

 

[Flyin6]

First off, I completely agree with your assessment of weight, water and CoG. Unfortunately I'm guilty of "overloading" my Gladiator even with my old set-up of AluCab RTT and Contour Canopy Topper. It's just my wife and myself so we are not packing in as much as a family of 3+ or even an additional pet. Now with the Scout we'll be even more conscious.

In regard to the quote above... 100% we'll head down the full size diesel route with likely a 3500 Ram if this year's experience with a slide-in camper is something we enjoy. For now we enjoy mid-size truck life

I believe you have a healthy and deliberate attitude about this. I am skeptical about the top-heavy aspect of this setup. Moreso than the more minor concern about breaking some arbitrary MGWT number. you can build in things to attenuate that GWT number. Things like sway bars, overload springs airbags, removal of rear seats, and her cosmetics bag. (I can say that because on last year's San Juan mountain adventure, my wife camped with a cosmetics case!)

Go for it, heck you may surprise yourself and some of the readership here. But you may also find yourself in a no-notice 90-degree roll with sudden stoppage at the terminus of that roll. Just be careful and forget the more aggressive stuff. We use the IKamper system mounted up high on our JT which has 37s and a 3.5" lift and that crawled around just fine in Co, NM, NC, and KY this past year. People told me my setup was too top-heavy as well.

Also owning a 3500 RAM, I would highly recommend one of those on 37's, a leveling Carli suspension, and an Alu-cab setup all day long. I don't think it would be as trail-friendly as a JT, but I think you could get 90% of "Our" trails done as long as you accept some natural pin stripping and a few "aw-sh_t" moments. I would not, could not imagine me driving it down the corkscrew. Nope, I would impose a limit on that one. And there is a takeaway with that comment. Don't go exploring with this new unknown setup, but stick to trails you know.

Write often about how this setup performs and hint at the weight you're carrying. Like the name of the camper you purchased, you are actually, the scout in this undertaking.

I hope it works out well for you.

 

[darkhorse13]

I believe you have a healthy and deliberate attitude about this. I am skeptical about the top-heavy aspect of this setup. Moreso than the more minor concern about breaking some arbitrary MGWT number. you can build in things to attenuate that GWT number. Things like sway bars, overload springs airbags, removal of rear seats, and her cosmetics bag. (I can say that because on last year's San Juan mountain adventure, my wife camped with a cosmetics case!)

Go for it, heck you may surprise yourself and some of the readership here. But you may also find yourself in a no-notice 90-degree roll with sudden stoppage at the terminus of that roll. Just be careful and forget the more aggressive stuff. We use the IKamper system mounted up high on our JT which has 37s and a 3.5" lift and that crawled around just fine in Co, NM, NC, and KY this past year. People told me my setup was too top-heavy as well.

Also owning a 3500 RAM, I would highly recommend one of those on 37's, a leveling Carli suspension, and an Alu-cab setup all day long. I don't think it would be as trail-friendly as a JT, but I think you could get 90% of "Our" trails done as long as you accept some natural pin stripping and a few "aw-sh_t" moments. I would not, could not imagine me driving it down the corkscrew. Nope, I would impose a limit on that one. And there is a takeaway with that comment. Don't go exploring with this new unknown setup, but stick to trails you know.

Write often about how this setup performs and hint at the weight you're carrying. Like the name of the camper you purchased, you are actually, the scout in this undertaking.

I hope it works out well for you.

Thank you for a very thoughtful response. I definitely welcome any and all conversations about the Scout in the JT as this is new territory. I'm excited to provide feedback as the miles rack up.

In terms of the CoG, I have an email out to Scout asking if they can quantify weight bias %'s by "zones". I completely made up the drawing below, but it seems like a simplistic approach to look at a majority of overland setups IMO.

If I look at my previous setup below, I honesty believe that a majority of my weight was in zones 2 and 3.

ZONE 2: total 300lb

1. AluCab Contour topper weighed empty at 135lb
2. Kitchen cupboard + contents weighed out at 60lb
3. (2) RotoPax gas cans at 30lb
4. Pair of Maxtrax/AluCab table/ 10lb Propane tank / hot water heater / misc first aid and speaker box in passenger side + cupboard all combined ~75lb

ZONE 3: total 255lb

1. Gen3 RTT weighs approx 165lb
2. Shadow Awning weighs approx. 70lb
3. Shower Cube weighs approx. 20lb

So in my old setup I had ~550lb above the bedrails. I honestly believe that there's an equivalent amount of weight distribution happening in the 619lb Scout Tuktut.

Again, the intent with presenting all of the data is to not prove that the Scout is any worse or any better, but rather trying to align expectations of where the Scout fits in our new camping equation. For us, that is extended comfort on trips, less setup and ability to still adventure to locations beyond #vanlife. Will we take this on Engineer Pass? No. Can we still explore remote locations in Utah like the San Rafael Swells? Yes. Do we continue to kill gas mileage with every new overlanding setup? Absolutely

Last thoughts... yes a Ram 3500 with full Carli suspension and 37's does ride better than my JTR and is more than equipped to handle a slide-in camper. Case in point, the Juniper Overland shop truck below. You tend to overland with a group of like minded people and given they are all in full size trucks, we should be able to keep up on the trails that keep us together

 

[fourfa]

I would definitely take the Scout setup on Engineer Pass (I don't know why people think that's a hard trail...) Are there some that I wouldn't, sure. Same is true with my ACCC, though I haven't been stopped by anything yet

I also think we tend to overreact about weight distribution. Take an narrow old Land Rover with loose saggy leafs, put two spare tires, 100L of fuel, and 100L of water on the roof - sure, that's gonna be noticeable. With stiffer suspension and anti-roll (check), moderate lift (check), wide axles and tires (check), lightweight laminate/composite construction (check) I suspect we're talking about very small changes in actual real-world rollover angle. Dan Grec recently concluded the same about the spare tire on his roof - it was a rounding error compared to the heavy frame, driveline, etc.

I would love to go to one of those events where you measure actual rollover angle with a forklift and a team of guys with ropes... Most I've done was 26° sideslope and I find the GF starts screaming in terror long before that

 

[Flyin6]

Thank you for a very thoughtful response. I definitely welcome any and all conversations about the Scout in the JT as this is new territory. I'm excited to provide feedback as the miles rack up.

In terms of the CoG, I have an email out to Scout asking if they can quantify weight bias %'s by "zones". I completely made up the drawing below, but it seems like a simplistic approach to look at a majority of overland setups IMO.

If I look at my previous setup below, I honesty believe that a majority of my weight was in zones 2 and 3. The AluCab Contour topper weighs ~135lb totally empty as an FYI. In zone 2 (total est weight 165lb), the kitchen cupboard + contents weighed out at 60lb, (2) RotoPax gas cans at 30lb, the pair of Maxtrax/AluCab table/ 10lb Propane tank / hot water heater / misc first aid and speaker box in passenger side + cupboard all combined ~75lb. In zone 3 (total est weight 235lb), there's the RTT (165lb) and awning (70lb). In both the Scout and old setup, water and gear will be stored in zone 1. So in my old setup I had ~400lb above the bedrails. I honestly believe that there's an equivalent amount of weight distribution happening in the 619lb Scout Tuktut.

Again, the intent with presenting all of the data is to not prove that the Scout is any worse or any better, but rather trying to align expectations of where the Scout fits in our new camping equation. For us, that is extended comfort on trips, less setup and ability to still adventure to locations beyond #vanlife. Will we take this on Engineer Pass? No. Can we still explore remote locations in Utah like the San Rafael Swells? Yes. Do we continue to kill gas mileage with every new overlanding setup? Absolutely

Last thoughts... yes a Ram 3500 with full Carli suspension and 37's does ride better than my JTR and is more than equipped to handle a slide-in camper. Case in point, the Juniper Overland shop truck below. You tend to overland with a group of like minded people and given they are all in full size trucks, we should be able to keep up on the trails that keep us together

Couple of thoughts: I think your simplistic way of looking at zones of weight distribution is a good start. I would like to see how the engineers have measured the distributed weight.
Not sure about vehicles, although some of the dynamics are the same, aircraft are set up according to both vertical and lateral CG with fore and aft being the most important. Fore and and locations are measured as "stations. Station zero is the point of origin and varies. I'd guess station zero is at the leading edge of the bumper or perhaps an inch or two forward of that.

They measure and account for lateral points of structure but that is not relevant as much for something always planted on the ground. Those are referred to as "Butt-Lines". Vertical points are called "Waterline." So any point on your vehicle could be accounted for by locating it in the x-y-z axis the boys with the pencils previously determined. For example, your steering wheel could be located at, Station 52 (52" aft of zero), Butt line 18 left, and waterline 20 (Assuming waterline zero is at the planned center of gravity (CG), near the floor somewhere.

Sorry for the short class, but if you could find out those calculations for your JT, then for the scout, you could numerically marry the two and get an idea for WHERE the weight is distributed. I think you may be pleasantly surprised to discover the vertical CG is lower than you think as most of the weight of that camper is likely distributed down low. If, however, that bulbous sleeping area pumps you skyward, well we are in trouble.

And here is why that is important. All your mentions and considerations seem to revolve around the concept of being stationary. They do not account for the speed of the "rolling moment" where a weight like that sleeping area bulge, starts to accelerate in one direction, as in a roll. Here's where something called momentum will bite you in the a$$. Even a light weight suddenly accelerated as in this theoretical roll, builds up momentum. This is a significant force all to its own and will not just stop when the wheels touch back and the springs settle. Oh, no it will work to pull everything else in its direction. Everything including the rest of the scout, you, your wife, and her cosmetic bag. ;-)

Flying helicopters while doing slope landings we know this all too well. As we approach that critical angle where the GC starts to move laterally things get dicey. as it nears the point where the landing gear should touch the ground, and if that rate is too fast or quickening, then the CG is no longer above the point where you remain upright. If your rate exceeds anything other than DEAD slow, well, you get to be dead, along with a very expensive machine and bystanders, wildlife, and the flora and fauna in the immediate vicinity.

So apologies for being so wordy. You could advance your calculations to get a really good idea by doing a deep dive. I know, and we are just having fun here, but the speed at which you now do things needs to reflect the new parameters (tall topper) and you would be well advised to do it slowly and approach old limits with an abundance of caution. Or just get plan B going, buy back that old Alu-Cap and a good used JT ;-)

 

[darkhorse13]

@Flyin6 I stopped reading after "Butt-Lines" Kidding. I read it and tried to digest as much as possible. For early investigation, I'll rely on my own "Butt-Meter" when out wheeling on side slopes.

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