Ecodiesel Oil Analysis - updated 11/23/23

[Summitsearcher]

I should test mine. Almost to 40K with the majority of my miles towing and highway. I basically covered every variable possible on my 3.6. First change at 2K then 5K and every 5K after that.

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[22EcoDs]

Alright here's the latest from QS euro through a stp filter, 5388 miles , GDE for the full interval I did have mine reflashed to the latest release after I did this oil change based on reading up on the ecodiesel ram forums. Once I get the new pump I'll go back to GDE.

 

[GladiatorPilot23]

The Pennzoil add pack looks better than the CS Euro. Also the Pennzoil had less sheering then the QS Euro based on other samples with similar miles I have seen.

 

[NMH_94]

Results after running Amsoil's 5W-40 FS Euro. Roughly 21k miles on the Jeep and 4k miles on this oil interval.

 

[GladiatorPilot23]

Results after running Amsoil's 5W-40 FS Euro. Roughly 21k miles on the Jeep and 4k miles on this oil interval.

Thanks for posting! Wow that lab is nice it has the ISO and only $25

The report is pretty good considering it is a Group 3 Oil. Amsoil no longer uses a PAO Group4/5 Ester. Even there Signature Series is a Group 3+ . Hot Shots has a some PAO oils and So does Redline Oil. The problem is just like this Amsoil's 5W-40 FS Euro is that it is not an approved oil and warranty has been void using. It. There is no API Starburst and API SN Donut on the back. It's not licensed unfortunately. I did my first oil change at 795 Miles and will do another at 4k Miles and every 4k Miles there after. After listening blogs with industry leading tribologists, they say TBN needs to be 7 and up in a Diesel for max life of engine. I would 100% dump this oil and change it because your right there. With a good bypass filter system and a Group 4/5 Oil you can go much longer and do so by using TBN boosters and lab work. Thanks to Castols win in court, Group 3/3+ GTL oils are NOT True 100% Synthetic base stocks molecules even though they claim they say 100% or "Full Synthetic"


With that said I plan on doing secret oil changes in-between the 10k mark that Warnaty would not know about to test both Redline Oil and Hot Shots PAO. Let see how they do with lab work if it's worth to use or not in my case.

Also it shows fuel but don't see a number for dissolution. In the Manual it states that if you EVER use B6-B20 fuel, you must change the oil in 6 months and not the year because fuel dissolution give excelatrated wear. This is why I 'm going to do my changes at 4k.

 

[NMH_94]

Thanks for posting! Wow that lab is nice it has the ISO and only $25

The report is pretty good considering it is a Group 3 Oil. Amsoil no longer uses a PAO Group4/5 Ester. Even there Signature Series is a Group 3+ . Hot Shots has a some PAO oils and So does Redline Oil. The problem is just like this Amsoil's 5W-40 FS Euro is that it is not an approved oil and warranty has been void using. It. There is no API Starburst and API SN Donut on the back. It's not licensed unfortunately. I did my first oil change at 795 Miles and will do another at 4k Miles and every 4k Miles there after. After listening blogs with industry leading tribologists, they say TBN needs to be 7 and up in a Diesel for max life of engine. I would 100% dump this oil and change it because your right there. With a good bypass filter system and a Group 4/5 Oil you can go much longer and do so by using TBN boosters and lab work. Thanks to Castols win in court, Group 3/3+ GTL oils are NOT True 100% Synthetic base stocks molecules even though they claim they say 100% or "Full Synthetic"


With that said I plan on doing secret oil changes in-between the 10k mark that Warnaty would not know about to test both Redline Oil and Hot Shots PAO. Let see how they do with lab work if it's worth to use or not in my case.

Also it shows fuel but don't see a number for dissolution. In the Manual it states that if you EVER use B6-B20 fuel, you must change the oil in 6 months and not the year because fuel dissolution give excelatrated wear. This is why I 'm going to do my changes at 4k.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm new to oil analyses, so I'm happy to get informed about how to read these things. I've been doing oil changes every 4-5k since I bought the Wrangler new.

I'm currently running Hot Shot's Secret 5W-40 Gray Diamond Euro and Stiction Eliminator this oil interval. Will do another analysis of that after 4k miles (25k on the vehicle) and post here as well. I started to get curious about Hot Shot's mid-SAPS oil after seeing that Amsoil's mid-SAPS seems to be outperforming its full-SAPS, and because Hot Shot's oil has FR3 in it (which I understand is a state-of-the-art nano lubricant additive) and I've had good experiences running Hot Shot's fuel additives.

On the fuel, I don't run bio diesel fuel, but my base fuel is always Exxon's "Diesel Efficient" and I run Hot Shot's Secret EDT every fill up and Diesel Extreme every 6k miles. The oil analysis I bought doesn't have a number for fuel like you pointed out, just an "AAA" mark, which is an indicator that the fuel is within "normal" range.

 

[GladiatorPilot23]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm new to oil analyses, so I'm happy to get informed about how to read these things. I've been doing oil changes every 4-5k since I bought the Wrangler new.

I'm currently running Hot Shot's Secret 5W-40 Gray Diamond Euro and Stiction Eliminator this oil interval. Will do another analysis of that after 4k miles (25k on the vehicle) and post here as well. I started to get curious about Hot Shot's mid-SAPS oil after seeing that Amsoil's mid-SAPS seems to be outperforming its full-SAPS, and because Hot Shot's oil has FR3 in it (which I understand is a state-of-the-art nano lubricant additive) and I've had good experiences running Hot Shot's fuel additives.

On the fuel, I don't run bio diesel fuel, but my base fuel is always Exxon's "Diesel Efficient" and I run Hot Shot's Secret EDT every fill up and Diesel Extreme every 6k miles. The oil analysis I bought doesn't have a number for fuel like you pointed out, just an "AAA" mark, which is an indicator that the fuel is within "normal" range.

Oh wow what a surprise! Can't wait to see that next report with Hot Shots and the FR3. I was going to add some to my Next Mopar 5W-40 Oil Change and see what it does. They post there independent lab reports with wear scars against the competitors. So that Gray Diamond Euro is a Group 3 and as you know Mid Saps but the Blue Diamond is the Group 4/5 PAO and full saps HDEO with More wear protection. The mid saps is for the protection of the DPF but theoretically if your not consuming oil, then full saps might be worth a try if you want to have the best shot and the lowest wear. The engine costs let say new 15k, what does a DPF cost or to have it cleaned? Much much less. For the Manufacture and EPA pushing them. The emissions matter most, not engine life. They aren't going to spec 2 oils for us by saying if you know consume oil run fill saps if you do then run mid saps.

Going back your Amsoil lab work. Almost no moly?? I have heard there is a new kind of moly ad pack that doesn't show up on regular lab work. Infinium Moly or something like that, Not sure what's going on otherwise?


I have LX4 for the fuel tank im adding with my Redline 85+. When I finish that I may go to EDT with the LX4 combo to get the most lubricity and I spoke with them. The LX4 is vegetable oil base and does not harm DPFs.

 

[22EcoDs]

What are our thoughts on this post ? https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/official-2020-ecodiesel-uoa-reports.70047/post-1117900 I see @biodiesel is over there too lol

 

[NMH_94]

Oh wow what a surprise! Can't wait to see that next report with Hot Shots and the FR3. I was going to add some to my Next Mopar 5W-40 Oil Change and see what it does. They post there independent lab reports with wear scars against the competitors. So that Gray Diamond Euro is a Group 3 and as you know Mid Saps but the Blue Diamond is the Group 4/5 PAO and full saps HDEO with More wear protection. The mid saps is for the protection of the DPF but theoretically if your not consuming oil, then full saps might be worth a try if you want to have the best shot and the lowest wear. The engine costs let say new 15k, what does a DPF cost or to have it cleaned? Much much less. For the Manufacture and EPA pushing them. The emissions matter most, not engine life. They aren't going to spec 2 oils for us by saying if you know consume oil run fill saps if you do then run mid saps.

Going back your Amsoil lab work. Almost no moly?? I have heard there is a new kind of moly ad pack that doesn't show up on regular lab work. Infinium Moly or something like that, Not sure what's going on otherwise?


I have LX4 for the fuel tank im adding with my Redline 85+. When I finish that I may go to EDT with the LX4 combo to get the most lubricity and I spoke with them. The LX4 is vegetable oil base and does not harm DPFs.

What's weird is that the mid-SAPS oils appear to be outperforming the full-SAPS on reducing wear metals. At least the Amsoil mid-SAPS is. Remains to be seen whether the HSS will too.

If it's a choice between replacing the engine and the DPF, obviously you would pick the DPF. But if the mid-SAPS oils perform just as good if not better against engine wear, then fortunately you wouldn't have to make that choice. Instead, the choice would be between (a) picking the oil that is within owner's manual specs or (b) picking the oil that will produce less ash and prolong the life of the DPF (which is an expensive item to replace/repair). I personally would go with option (b) since I'm keeping my Jeep for the long haul, but I wouldn't blame anyone for making either choice.

On my results, not sure why the moly is low ?‍ and to be honest, I'm not informed enough to know the significance of that. As far as TBN goes, I'd be curious to know the reasons the tribologists you consulted gave for saying the TBN should always remain above 7 to prolong engine life. From what I understand, TBN is still relevant, but no longer as relevant as it used to be given the prevalence of ULSD fuel. A couple different sources on that:

https://www.championbrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Tech-Bulletin-TBN-Chevron.pdf

https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/understanding-total-base-number-in-todays-hd-engine-oils/

https://www.chevronlubricants.com/e...ment/used-engine-oil-analysis-tbn-vs-tan.html

 

[NMH_94]

What are our thoughts on this post ? https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/official-2020-ecodiesel-uoa-reports.70047/post-1117900 I see @biodiesel is over there too lol

If I'm reading the right post, I think OhioTech is making an unsupported assumption that the FR3 is the cause of the lower detergent levels (e.g., phosphorous and zinc). I'm not sure if OhioTech caught this, but the person posting the analysis OhioTech appeared to be commenting on stated that the interval was the first time he was using Amsoil's mid-SAPS oil, so presumably he was using full-SAPS oils beforehand. Thus, the cause of the lower SAPS would almost certainly be the use of the mid-SAPS oil (which has less detergents), not the addition of FR3 to the mid-SAPS oil.

 

[GladiatorPilot23]

What are our thoughts on this post ? https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/official-2020-ecodiesel-uoa-reports.70047/post-1117900 I see @biodiesel is over there too lol

Wow thanks for posting! I'll have to keep an eye on that thread for sure.

Very brutal! Those poor guys on the GDE tune added so much wasted fuel into the oil. That's why I only trust the Banks stuff which I saw some oil reports with normal fuel in the oil. That 1 poor guy did 3x the wear on that GDE tune.

Well the best reports were with Amsoil AFL it seems and the Pennzoil Euro 5W-40

That one person mentions that Hot Shot FR3 is Chlorinated paraffins. Disappointing if true. I would stay clear from the oils and additives.

They even had a Redline 5W-40 report and it was not WOW. I wonder if what some say is true that if the oil cleans, you see more wear metal and must run it lets say 3 times to see a trend?


Ohiotech also said that the best numbers on reports he has seen is from
Molygen New Generation SAE 5W-40??

No API SN/SP donut like many don't have.

So far the best oil that keeps Warranty is the Penz/Mopar we all know about.

 

[GladiatorPilot23]

What's weird is that the mid-SAPS oils appear to be outperforming the full-SAPS on reducing wear metals. At least the Amsoil mid-SAPS is. Remains to be seen whether the HSS will too.

If it's a choice between replacing the engine and the DPF, obviously you would pick the DPF. But if the mid-SAPS oils perform just as good if not better against engine wear, then fortunately you wouldn't have to make that choice. Instead, the choice would be between (a) picking the oil that is within owner's manual specs or (b) picking the oil that will produce less ash and prolong the life of the DPF (which is an expensive item to replace/repair). I personally would go with option (b) since I'm keeping my Jeep for the long haul, but I wouldn't blame anyone for making either choice.

On my results, not sure why the moly is low ?‍ and to be honest, I'm not informed enough to know the significance of that. As far as TBN goes, I'd be curious to know the reasons the tribologists you consulted gave for saying the TBN should always remain above 7 to prolong engine life. From what I understand, TBN is still relevant, but no longer as relevant as it used to be given the prevalence of ULSD fuel. A couple different sources on that:

https://www.championbrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Tech-Bulletin-TBN-Chevron.pdf

https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/understanding-total-base-number-in-todays-hd-engine-oils/

https://www.chevronlubricants.com/e...ment/used-engine-oil-analysis-tbn-vs-tan.html

Good point I am starting to see that as well on he Mid-SAPS doing better or so it seems?? It throws out all the stuff I have learned on high ZDDP is the way to go. It still is im sure important but not on our engines and maybe other new engines as well?? My brain is going to pop from taking in all of this.


Same here I want to keep the truck to the grave! I found the info on the 7TBN or more. That was recommended for big rigs doing a bypass. Those guys boost TBN on the oil since it could be 50-100k miles on it and he was saying if it hit 7tbn use the booster.

 

[22EcoDs]

This section is what concerned me from his post.

"This tells me that FR3, like Slick 50c, is probably a combination of TMP esters and chlorinated parrafins.

Chlorinated paraffins indeed reduce sliding friction in oils. Too bad there’s very few places in an engine that benefit from that, and the effects are short lived. At high temps, these chlorinated paraffins break down rapidly into hydrogen chloride. This mixes with the moisture present in the engine - and you end up with hydrochloric acid. Hence the lower TBN and high oxidation."

 

[22EcoDs]

Wow thanks for posting! I'll have to keep an eye on that thread for sure.

Very brutal! Those poor guys on the GDE tune added so much wasted fuel into the oil. That's why I only trust the Banks stuff which I saw some oil reports with normal fuel in the oil. That 1 poor guy did 3x the wear on that GDE tune.

Well the best reports were with Amsoil AFL it seems and the Pennzoil Euro 5W-40

That one person mentions that Hot Shot FR3 is Chlorinated paraffins. Disappointing if true. I would stay clear from the oils and additives.

They even had a Redline 5W-40 report and it was not WOW. I wonder if what some say is true that if the oil cleans, you see more wear metal and must run it lets say 3 times to see a trend?


Ohiotech also said that the best numbers on reports he has seen is from
Molygen New Generation SAE 5W-40??

No API SN/SP donut like many don't have.

So far the best oil that keeps Warranty is the Penz/Mopar we all know about.

I was on the first gen gde for my last uoa, I just put in the revised version and plan to post uoa after this 6k. Same qs euro.

 

[NMH_94]

This section is what concerned me from his post.

"This tells me that FR3, like Slick 50c, is probably a combination of TMP esters and chlorinated parrafins.

Chlorinated paraffins indeed reduce sliding friction in oils. Too bad there’s very few places in an engine that benefit from that, and the effects are short lived. At high temps, these chlorinated paraffins break down rapidly into hydrogen chloride. This mixes with the moisture present in the engine - and you end up with hydrochloric acid. Hence the lower TBN and high oxidation."

Candidly, I don't think he knows what he's talking about. His base assumption is that the lower TBN and detergent numbers are signs that FR3 is made of chlorinated paraffins, but he provides no evidence either for the claim that chlorinated paraffins lower TBN and other detergents or the claim that FR3 has chlorinated paraffins. On a related note, he attributes the lower TBN to the FR3, when in reality the lower TBN is due to the fact that the base oil the poster used was a mid-SAPS oil, not a full-SAPS oil. But don't take my word for it, you can just look at AMSOIL's bulletin materials, which will tell you that the mid-SAPS 5W-40 is formulated at a lower TBN (and again, keep in mind that the poster stated he was using the mid-SAPS for the first time when he decided to give FR3 a try):

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3395.pdf

In short, the statement you quoted from OhioTech shares the same flawed assumption: he attributes lower TBN and overall detergents to the addition of FR3, not the fact that poster was using mid-SAPS for the first time instead of full-SAPS. And based on that flawed assumption, he out of nowhere just claims that FR3 must be formulated with chlorinated paraffins.

TLDR, I wouldn't put any stock into his opinion on this.

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