Poor Sales Translates to job cuts

[Geoarch]

Not all unions are equal though. One of my buddies, his girlfriends son went to a plumbing union. They paid for him to go to school(tuition/apprentice pay). Once he gradated he went right to work. New company van, company credit card and they pay for all of the tools. He's 23 and already making over $100k and no education debt. Journeymen and Masters are making nearly $200k a year.

NOTE: this is in N-NW Maryland

I think that's an XLNT argument for the expansion of trade schools/community colleges, and many of those jobs can't be replaced by AI.

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[dayusmc]

I don't like to comment on things that are political in nature. But I do se almost two different distinct sides being taken here. One is management makes to much money and the other is unskilled workers make to much money.
My personal opinion, and it doesn't mean much is both are the problem. I say that because it is becoming every man out for himself.
Companies are in business to make money, there is no debating that. But companies need workers to make their product in order to make money, unless you are in a fully automated environment. BUT companies also need customers to make money. If people don't make enough money for the bare necessities, they don't have money to by the semi luxuries like Jeeps instead of Yugos. Some people will say it is the chicken or the egg thing - it is more than that.
We live in a world where CEOs make bad decisions and bankrupt companies but somehow they are making 15 million a year, and bonus for bankrupting the company. Remember bank bail outs and car manufacturer bail outs? I am not talking about someone that started a company from scratch and built it up making to much money. I sm talking about companies that are paying CEOs, CFOs and other people millions a year. You have to stop and think, what work do they do that rates that amount of pay.
Next you have workers making 50k a year literally standing on an assembly line bolting in a premade wiring harness. Does that rate 50k ayear with insane benefits? My friend use to work at the Ford plant in the early 90s making 75k on the assembly line, doing just that. He had been there for 5 years and 75k ended up being his base salary for no skill assembly line worker that barely made it out of high school. He even knew he was making to much. Guess what that plant shit down....
Unions use to be necessary. I don't believe that is the case now. I know a lit of people don't agree with that, it is just my opinion. When you have Unions demanding high wages for semi skilled labor and I do mean semi skilled making more than teachers that are required to have expense college degrees something is wrong.
I am not a big fan of college, not because I think it is bad, I have a BS and a JD. But because the cost of college is outrageous. Why is college so expensive? While my brother in law is a college professor and he makes a lot less than the coaches as his school, that is part of the problem. In fact no one will like this. But I think they need to ban college sports and make college about learning only.
One problem we had in the past, I believe it was bass shoes, was there was no cap on salaries and they workers had insane pensions. No company is going to survive if they are paying an assembly line worker 125k (in the 90s) and then 75% of that when they retire...
So in the end, everyone is out for themselves and I understand that. But to be out for yourself without think of other people I don't believe in. I will give an example.
If the CEO makes an insane salary,cit has to come from one of two places. From the high price of the product or from not paying the company employees enough.
If they are paying 50k a year + benefits for someone to put a tire on while a vehicle is going down the assembly line cost of the vehicle has to go up. When the cost of the vehicles go up to much people stop buying them. When sales are down they need less people to build them so people are laid off.
To me it seems like the whole balance is off. CEOs need to make less money, putting a wheel on a vehicle on an assembly line needs to be an entry level job that is designed for someone to get there foot in the door, but not as a career path. There is to big of a gap between the rich and the poor. Again if the rich want to be filthy rich and take all the money for the middle and low class, the ones who actually buy the products, then sales drop.
So in all the pages I read in this post it was either one side was the problem or the other side was the problem. My opinion is it is both sides.
Sales drop = lay offs because we don't need the product.

AND Please excuse my typos, I am trying on a small phone without my glasses on! It sucks getting old....

 

[Vtur]

1. I started as Asst. Professor, but it depends on the context. That's apples and oranges compared to many entry level jobs I've had at entry level pay. Still if the bottom was $15 the GDP, despite what corps say will rise. The have in my town at $12 and Santa Fe at 14. But 7.25 is an insult to even those without a high school diploma. It's 2024 not 2009.

I agreed that 7.25 isn't enough in 2024. However, there's a different between skilled trade unions vs assembly workers unions. Assembly can be replaced by robots or get sends overseas, also very little negotiating power when nearly anyone can perform the jobs.

 

[Rocksalt]

corporate profits go to shareholders and upper mgmnt.
CEOs make millions... and even if they suck, are given lucrative buy out golden parachutes. Sad that the "buy American" yahoos truly dont support American workers.

 

[Rocksalt]

UNHINGED!

you are unhinged and not part of the solution... you must be a reall asshat in person

 

[Rocksalt]

hootbro and tnjarhead ... 2 yahoos for sure

 

[Hootbro]

corporate profits go to shareholders and upper mgmnt.

So if you own a house and are looking to sell it and employ a local landscaper for the cost of $5K and their work added $30K in value at selling time, are you profit sharing with them?

 

[kubankevin]

I worked IT in Miami-Dade College for 10 years. Each year where matriculation/retention fell, people were cut. People were hired when matriculation/retention were high. This is a “non-profit org” with public funding.

I worked at the University of Miami as well, a private institution. There were sizeable cuts when 2020 happened because they believed there would be a hit to profit.

As workers we are a cost to the organization we work for. We are no different than your monthly bills. Just like when you need to cut costs, you remove subscriptions and items that you do not need, companies will remove those they feel they can let go in order to survive.

Welcome to reality.

 

[Teqsand]

1. I started as Asst. Professor, but it depends on the context. That's apples and oranges compared to many entry level jobs I've had at entry level pay. Still if the bottom was $15 the GDP, despite what corps say will rise. The have in my town at $12 and Santa Fe at 14. But 7.25 is an insult to even those without a high school diploma. It's 2024 not 2009.

What you are not factoring in is that when you raise min wage, you have to raise every wage above it... you cannot arbitrarily raise wage from 7.25 to 15, what do you tell the people who worked hard to climb up to 15, "hey guys you're now min wage and little Sally who is getting her first Job is making what you're making"..... entry level jobs, min wage jobs are meant to force you to improve yourself, make yourself more valuable and EARÑ AN INCREASE, not be handed it for having a pulse....

If I as business owner are forced to may top dollar for min wage workers ($20hr for fast food in calif) , I'm sure nut hiring some snot nosed HS kid or an unskilled one, I'll hold out for upper level workers

 

[Teqsand]

1) Yes
2) entry level implies minimal or zero skill........So yes, the pay should reflect
3) Ever heard the line, "Moving up the corporate ladder" Again, implies with skill and experience you move in to positions of greater responsibility and or skill
4) no installing wheels and tires is not a $50k skillset.......I was doing it when I was 10 years old. In HS I was actual mounting and balancing tires from a class I took in high school. Minimum wage in 1996 when I "officially" started working was $4.25

BONUS, minimum wages job(s) were never intended to be a career dot period. The more people scrap for high pay in low skill or low responsibility positions........the corporate world and business will continue to find ways to eliminate those jobs........example 1........self check everyplace you go now. 2 more automation in manufacturing. We'll see a huge up tick in AI and ML in the next decade.......I work as a contractor for DoD and there are new organizations, commands and task forces being established on those to domains.

The official reset in education priorities is starting now. Some examples

Who makes more, a teacher with a degree in Education or the Plumber?
Who makes more, the person with a Masters in Art history or the HVAC tech?
Who makes more, the entry level manager with a MBA or the certified welder?
I could go on and on with examples.

Point here is what currently has the best ROI in education....... 4-6 years of college or a Trade school? Assuming most like myself that did not have a college fund......how do you fund that?

We are on the same page.....

 

[Teqsand]

The Unions would answer YES to all those questions ?

And that's why unions have outlived thier usefulness......

 

[Hootbro]

Unions push higher minimum wage because many of their contracts are tied to their pay scales being X amount above minimum wage.

 

[Throwback]

A couple of points:

The premise of this thread is that low sales are leading to layoffs. Vehicles aren't selling because Stellaaaantis and Ford and GM raised prices faster than inflation (and wages). Look at their filings from the last few years, and have a listen to their earnings calls. They were crowing about their margins. $6,000 per unit! $7,500 per unit! Dealers were also raking it in. Now they've killed the golden goose, for now. They're overpriced for the market and can't move the metal. Those price increases had nothing to do with labor demands in the US; they were all about those fat margins.

Keep in mind that Jeep and Ram were the jewels in the crown when the merger happened. The brands with the highest margins, even before the price increase mania. There wasn't a single thing PSA or Fiat brought to the table that came close to being as attractive as Jeep and Ram. Now, these genius managers are killing those brands' sales with crackhead price increases.

Another point: Sure the main purpose of companies is to make money. No mainstream economists would say otherwise. I would argue, though, that three companies (Chrysler, Fiat, Peugeot) that have each been bailed out by the taxpayers of their respective countries (2 of them multiple times) might have more of an obligation to create/preserve jobs in their home countries. It is after all the argument they use to blackmail governments into bailing them out.

 

[Rocksalt]

for all you anti living wage anti union koolaid drinkers... go. have your plumbing, electrical, hvac , carpentry work done by non trade certified workers... lmao
and again...either support American workers with a living wage or
exploit cheap labor... which btw has to be done by immigrants (legal or not) because you refuse to support American workers. Eat that.

 

[Rocksalt]

Hey! Putin's Russia doesn't allow unions!!! Why don't you who are anti American workers pack up and move to Moscow?

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