My absolute nightmare Jeep Gladiator Experience over the last 20 months

[Maximus Gladius]

My burping procedure is probably my own special procedure in that I too was aware of the possibility of air lock so I levelled the frame then as I was getting the coolant up to temp, I’d go back and forth with the jack and raise either passenger or driver’s side higher to get all the angles so air could just move along and out. I’d even raise the whole front higher. I’d also turn the heater on full blast.

I think it’s just fine to be unconventional and use “simple science”. We know air likes to float to its highest point in water, right? So move the highest point around and air will just move along. Think of it like gas in your gut when you go lay down after a big meal. You know you have all that gas building up but nothing comes out until you change position and then BOOM! Right, so let the engine heat up level, then raise it higher then raise one side, then the other, squeeze the hose as mentioned above, keep rotating through and then just drive it. Inclines, declines, do some angle flexing… you’ll be ok.

Sponsored

 

[Maximus Gladius]

So tell me, after doing all this, were your clothes also whiter and brighter?

I only ask because if so, then the next time my wife whinges at me for getting grease and oil on my good clothes because ive been caught a number of time wearing them fixing my car, i can assure her not to worry, the cothese will be fine cause ive added Calgon to the car radiator

You don’t leave the calgon in there my friend! Let your final flushing flush that out so it’s just distilled water that’s draining out then fill up with the OAT coolant. Calgon isn’t a bleach, it’s just a water softener.

Another trick with the Calgon is to dump it into your black water tank on trailers and let it slosh around in there. It’ll clean your sensors and keep shit from sticking.

 

[adamjedgar]

My burping procedure is probably my own special procedure in that I too was aware of the possibility of air lock so I levelled the frame then as I was getting the coolant up to temp, I’d go back and forth with the jack and raise either passenger or driver’s side higher to get all the angles so air could just move along and out. I’d even raise the whole front higher. I’d also turn the heater on full blast.

I think it’s just fine to be unconventional and use “simple science”. We know air likes to float to its highest point in water, right? So move the highest point around and air will just move along. Think of it like gas in your gut when you go lay down after a big meal. You know you have all that gas building up but nothing comes out until you change position and then BOOM! Right, so let the engine heat up level, then raise it higher then raise one side, then the other, squeeze the hose as mentioned above, keep rotating through and then just drive it. Inclines, declines, do some angle flexing… you’ll be ok.

Did you use distilled water for entire flush and refill procdure? Ive purchased 2x 4 litres of distilled water to refill (to add to coolant concentrate)...i might need to get some more?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Did you use distilled water for entire flush and refill procdure? Ive purchased 2x 4 litres of distilled water to refill (to add to coolant concentrate)...i might need to get some more?

Yes, 100% distilled water/calgon mix. From the photo, it looks like I flushed 5 times. The last one was just straight distilled water. I used 50/50 mix Cummins OAT coolant.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ethanol has 15% less energy. And yes it will not burn clean in a car that is not designed to use it. That is why you do not use E85 unless your car is made to run it. You will foul your plugs among other things. (i.e. Carbon build up). Ethanol does not burn as hot as gasoline, and without adequate compression, it does not burn clean. 100% gasoline is hard to find and expensive here, so you are always going to be burning some ethanol. Some Ethanol is fine, but when you get to the higher percentages (as in super high octane), it is not fine to run unless your engine is designed for it. So, if they are running super high octane gas, with a lot of Ethanol, yes, that may be the source, or part of the source of high carbon build up.

You can get what they call a "Monday car" Not necessarily an actual Monday, but sometimes a factory will have a bad day/week for various reasons. However. normally you will get engine problems, or transmission problems, or electrical problems, or assembly issues. Not normally problems in all areas because the components are made in completely different locations and even by different companies (Transmissions are made by ZF in South Carolina, engines are made in Trenton MI, assembly is in Toledo, Mobis (Hyundai) makes the chassis in a factory on the Jeep Campus}. So it is usual to have rare major repeated problems with all components of a new vehicle like this, unless something happened to it after manufacture.

Wow, all of that conspiracy stuff from around the web.

First, your first half has nothing at all to do with these. He's running at most 15%. These are high compression engines. There's zero issues with ethanol - so you are really only muddying the waters. I started as a mechanic when ethanol was first introduced in Iowa in the 1970s so yeah, I know all of the real vs. fake stuff out there related to ethanol.
In the states, the content is limited to 15% unless you get to E85 - there's no way he's running too much Ethanol. He's not dealing with excessive carbon in a new engine - so let's not even go there.
Bluntly, frankly, this is zero to do with ethanol, period.

Next, that "monday car" bullshit died with the old methodology. Factory work weeks have changed drastically, as have methods. It was really only a myth back then, perpetuated by those who never even worked putting cars together, let alone visited those factories, several of them, on various days of the week. Been there, done that - Chrysler, Ford, you name it. Even have friends and know people who worked in the AMC plants back in the 70s and 80s - building cars.
What people call "monday cars" or "friday cars" are typically due to what's called in the industry a "stackup of tolerances" where you have, for example, a crankshaft that is in specs, but on the smaller side of that spec RANGE, and then you pair that with a rod and bearing that is in spec, but on the outer area of the spec, and you end up with a connection looser then your neighbor's car who ended up on the other end of things - it's part of the logic and reasons behind why some people can get 200,000 miles out of an engine and poor Joe only gets 90,000 miles (of course the driver/owner figure in - duh)

You are so far off of even the edge of explaining his problems, I hope most totally ignore it.

Back in May of 2023 I flushed the coolant from my second engine (roughly 21k kms on the new engine) and I was surprised to see the techs used the old coolant from the first old engine for the new one! I knew they did because they put a dye in the old engine to find where the engine was consuming coolant (1 ounce/1000 kms) but when that investigation was going to move forward, my insurance stepped in and paid for a new engine.

The coolant I use is the OAT brand Cummins has designed for use in the Cummins fleet. If it’s tough enough for those engines, I approved it for mine.

I used distilled water with part mix of Calgon water softener to flush with which this little secret I’ve done all my years of flushing the coolant and debris out with. It kicks the crap off, descales anything that may have formed and helps rid any assembly and machining sands in the system.

After refilling the system with my flush mix and running it up to temp at least approximately 6 times, I was done and filled it up with the Cummins OAT coolant. I was quite surprised to see what debris had filtered out when I was done.

Vinegar works for flushing things out. Some of us have literally put vinegar in with some distilled water and driven around for a day or two, then flushed things out good. Not sure I'd try it on the 3.6 but it sure worked on our classics! The stuff that came out.......
Grits are hard on water pump impellers. (and the shaft seals)

 

[Maximus Gladius]

From the photo you can see the closest one had the dye and it got less and less toward the end.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My burping procedure is probably my own special procedure in that I too was aware of the possibility of air lock so I levelled the frame then as I was getting the coolant up to temp, I’d go back and forth with the jack and raise either passenger or driver’s side higher to get all the angles so air could just move along and out. I’d even raise the whole front higher. I’d also turn the heater on full blast.

I think it’s just fine to be unconventional and use “simple science”. We know air likes to float to its highest point in water, right? So move the highest point around and air will just move along. Think of it like gas in your gut when you go lay down after a big meal. You know you have all that gas building up but nothing comes out until you change position and then BOOM! Right, so let the engine heat up level, then raise it higher then raise one side, then the other, squeeze the hose as mentioned above, keep rotating through and then just drive it. Inclines, declines, do some angle flexing… you’ll be ok.

Get the engine good and hot and the air literally mixes with the coolant/water mix............making it harder to get rid of. It can literally "aerate" the coolant - not form foam. You'll get rid of the most air once the stat opens, but you don't have a lot of turbulence in the system
The 4.0 stats literally had a small hole drilled in the thermostat - and many overlooked that bleed hole and didn't position it at 12:00 when installing it, meaning it took forever to get air out.

His problem, though, is really doubtfully "air" in the system. The air will be at the highest points, the coolant will still be around the cylinders and heads and coolant will still flow. If air was a massive issue in these, we'd be seeing many dozens of members coming back with "my engine is overheating" or - I keep having to add coolant to my Jeep".

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Get the engine good and hot and the water literally mixes with the coolant............making it harder to get rid of. You'll get rid of the most air once the stat opens, but you don't have a lot of turbulence in the system
The 4.0 stats literally had a small hole drilled in the thermostat - and many overlooked that bleed hole and didn't position it at 12:00 when installing it, meaning it took forever to get air out.

His problem, though, is really doubtfully "air" in the system. The air will be at the highest points, the coolant will still be around the cylinders and heads and coolant will still flow. If air was a massive issue in these, we'd be seeing many dozens of members coming back with "my engine is overheating" or - I keep having to add coolant to my Jeep".

Maybe this has been covered but the only ones I see complaining about over heating and derating are the diesel owners. Could it be they are dealing with air lock in their design causing overheating issues?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

From the photo you can see the closest one had the dye and it got less and less toward the end.

Having to get rid of the dye in my system should answer anyone wondering ‘how many flushes are necessary to get rid of the old coolant?’ This experiment, by accident, shows 5 flushes but it still showed dye in the 5th flush. I didn’t worry about having a little dye left in there but that was 5 flushes.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

OP, if you can, try and capture all your flushes and screen it out in the end and show us what debris was floating around in yours

 

[Firehawkcpo]

I had a leak in the oil cooler/filter housing on my JK that caused my loss of coolant. You have a lot of good pics but did you check for coolant in the valley? I noticed my leak from coolant leaking down the back of the engine onto the trans. I replaced the plastic oem housing with an aluminum one.

 

[adamjedgar]

A great lot of responses there guys...all of them.very helpful.​

​

Ive had trouble sleeping thinking about this engine..i even got up at 1am and headed out in my pyjamas to check for water in the oil as well as shining a torch down the front side of the V. I cant see any evidence so far of oil contamination or coolant stain in the V. (Couldnt see the rear of the v)​

​

So, after 4 hours of troubled sleep it was nice to wake up this morning read all of the most recent responses.​

​

Given this is a new engine that potentially hasnt had its cooling system purged adequitaley and,​

​

Its a new engine which has had an unexpected and unusual but almost instantaneous overheating episode​

​

I very much doubt Jeep will believe any evidence i provide them about this in the future so....​

​

Whilst i could now do this myself... im contemplating the idea of get Jeep roadside assist to do the check, refill, purge... purely so that it gets officially documented somewhere in Jeep Australias database that a mechanic has diagnosed, tested and refilled the system according to best practise standards.​

​

That way, if anything isnt right either now or in the future, then i will have the license to...​

​

obtain a new passport (mine expired years ago)​

apply for a visa to a country in said region that has monkeys​

fly first class to said country and after landing​

walk calmly outa that terminal and locate myself a monkey​

with a burst of speed matched only by a tortise in an olympic sprint, run down and then grab said monkey (hopefully without first sucumbing to a heart attack from the effort needed to catch one)​

finally...spank that monkey's ass!​

​

​

 

[Coldjensens]

Wow, all of that conspiracy stuff from around the web.

First, your first half has nothing at all to do with these. He's running at most 15%. These are high compression engines. There's zero issues with ethanol - so you are really only muddying the waters. I started as a mechanic when ethanol was first introduced in Iowa in the 1970s so yeah, I know all of the real vs. fake stuff out there related to ethanol.
In the states, the content is limited to 15% unless you get to E85 - there's no way he's running too much Ethanol. He's not dealing with excessive carbon in a new engine - so let's not even go there.
Bluntly, frankly, this is zero to do with ethanol, period.

Next, that "monday car" bullshit died with the old methodology. Factory work weeks have changed drastically, as have methods. It was really only a myth back then, perpetuated by those who never even worked putting cars together, let alone visited those factories, several of them, on various days of the week. Been there, done that - Chrysler, Ford, you name it. Even have friends and know people who worked in the AMC plants back in the 70s and 80s - building cars.
What people call "monday cars" or "friday cars" are typically due to what's called in the industry a "stackup of tolerances" where you have, for example, a crankshaft that is in specs, but on the smaller side of that spec RANGE, and then you pair that with a rod and bearing that is in spec, but on the outer area of the spec, and you end up with a connection looser then your neighbor's car who ended up on the other end of things - it's part of the logic and reasons behind why some people can get 200,000 miles out of an engine and poor Joe only gets 90,000 miles (of course the driver/owner figure in - duh)

You are so far off of even the edge of explaining his problems, I hope most totally ignore it.

Vinegar works for flushing things out. Some of us have literally put vinegar in with some distilled water and driven around for a day or two, then flushed things out good. Not sure I'd try it on the 3.6 but it sure worked on our classics! The stuff that came out.......
Grits are hard on water pump impellers. (and the shaft seals)

Sorry, but factories do have bad days or weeks where they have a huge number of quality defects (huge compared to normal). Often they catch the defects and the cars stack up in the correction area. Sometimes they slip through and they hav a bunch of warranty issues. This is what as I explained are often called "Monday" cars. I also indicated that the label of "Monday" is incorrect. So, you are making up things that I did not say just so you can argue with it.

This happens for many different reasons. Maybe a new boss everyone hates, maybe a huge retirement party and everyone is hung over and tired, maybe a popular employee was killed in a traffic accident the day before, rumors of pending shutdowns, or shifts in location, all kinds of things can cause a drop in morale, general worker exhaustion, or even intentional bad workmanship. How do I know this? Because of where i live. 14 of my friends work in car plants (2 in quality). 6 of my close friends manage or managed car plants. What do we do at get together or social events? Sit around and discuss cars, car manufacturing, problems at the plants, upcoming changes. I work in the plants at times and sometimes you have a huge backlog of cars in the QC corrections area, other times very few. Yes, you can hit a bad time for a company and get a whole bunch of cars with something that was not quite correctly done. It is rare, and even more rare that quality misses it, but it happens.

In any event, you also made up something else that I did not say just so you could try to argue about it. What I said is that this OP problems cannot possibly be a bad day at the factory. Your response - "No you are wrong, this cannot possibly be caused by a bad day a the facto0ry"

And No I am not at all far off the edge in looking for a post manufacturing expiation for the OP problems. While you can have bad days at one or another plants, you are not going to have concurrent bad days at ZF in South Carolina, Trenton Engine in Michigan, Mobis (Hyundai) in Ohio and Jeep assembly in Ohio all on the same car. For a vehicle to have that many rare and major problems in such diverse parts of the vehicle, something had to have happened to it post manufacturing. Water is an obvious answer. There may be other things that could have happened to it. A lot can happen to a car during shipping.

Jeep should just give OP another one.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sorry, but factories do have bad days or weeks where they have a huge number of quality defects (huge compared to normal). Often they catch the defects and the cars stack up in the correction area. Sometimes they slip through and they hav a bunch of warranty issues. This is what as I explained are often called "Monday" cars. I also indicated that the label of "Monday" is incorrect. So, you are making up things that I did not say just so you can argue with it.

This happens for many different reasons. Maybe a new boss everyone hates, maybe a huge retirement party and everyone is hung over and tired, maybe a popular employee was killed in a traffic accident the day before, rumors of pending shutdowns, or shifts in location, all kinds of things can cause a drop in morale, general worker exhaustion, or even intentional bad workmanship. How do I know this? Because of where i live. 14 of my friends work in car plants (2 in quality). 6 of my close friends manage or managed car plants. What do we do at get together or social events? Sit around and discuss cars, car manufacturing, problems at the plants, upcoming changes. I work in the plants at times and sometimes you have a huge backlog of cars in the QC corrections area, other times very few. Yes, you can hit a bad time for a company and get a whole bunch of cars with something that was not quite correctly done. It is rare, and even more rare that quality misses it, but it happens.

In any event, you also made up something else that I did not say just so you could try to argue about it. What I said is that this OP problems cannot possibly be a bad day at the factory. Your response - "No you are wrong, this cannot possibly be caused by a bad day a the facto0ry"

And No I am not at all far off the edge in looking for a post manufacturing expiation for the OP problems. While you can have bad days at one or another plants, you are not going to have concurrent bad days at ZF in South Carolina, Trenton Engine in Michigan, Mobis (Hyundai) in Ohio and Jeep assembly in Ohio all on the same car. For a vehicle to have that many rare and major problems in such diverse parts of the vehicle, something had to have happened to it post manufacturing. Water is an obvious answer. There may be other things that could have happened to it. A lot can happen to a car during shipping.

Jeep should just give OP another one.

Yeah, i see you as a conspiracy theorist on this stuff, he's on engine number TWO, not the original. (engine for his was most likely made in Mexico although some of the 2024 and 25 models seem to have different origins now)

Don't know why you even brought up ethanol, water or a bad day at the factory - none of his issues have anything to do with any of that.
Most of his problems are dealer shop related at this point.
His problems, which I've seen from day-1, have been a diverse set of issues likely due to the shop dopes.

You were throwing up the ethanol and water and such - for what purpose? Totally unrelated. He's looking for ideas, solid help, not stuff that's unrelated to his problems now or in the past.

Yes, as we've pointed out - time to seek counsel - an attorney or his government's consumer help system, even advise Jeep of the issue if they have such provisions for Australia like they do the US.

 

[adamjedgar]

Yeah, i see you as a conspiracy theorist on this stuff, he's on engine number TWO, not the original. (engine for his was most likely made in Mexico although some of the 2024 and 25 models seem to have different origins now)

Don't know why you even brought up ethanol, water or a bad day at the factory - none of his issues have anything to do with any of that.
Most of his problems are dealer shop related at this point.
His problems, which I've seen from day-1, have been a diverse set of issues likely due to the shop dopes.

You were throwing up the ethanol and water and such - for what purpose? Totally unrelated. He's looking for ideas, solid help, not stuff that's unrelated to his problems now or in the past.

Yes, as we've pointed out - time to seek counsel - an attorney or his government's consumer help system, even advise Jeep of the issue if they have such provisions for Australia like they do the US.

Yes i believe that mostly my problems are the result of poor testing and diagnosing of what initially were minor problems, not listening to and enacting a further test based on my evidences, then stuffing me around when it turns out there really was an issue thst needed urgent rectification in order to.prevent further and indeed (as it turns out) serious damage to the car systems.

This all started the very next morning after its first 12,000km service when i swore i heard the auto transmission slip in second gear. Prior to that morning this car appeared fautless. After that, every time a mechanic touched the car more and more stuff started to go wrong.

One could claim the conspiracy a mechanic set out to destroy my transmission, then the engine...i cannot refute that claim, however, even the other 2 dealerships that did major works on the car have now demonstrated a basket case of incompetences that conspiracy connot support unless those dealers had phone calls with previous ones and maintained the intent to damage.

The trouble is, for the conspiracy across dealerships to work, surely those dealerships wouldnt call the previous dealers work incompetent (paraphrase) to my face?

So i am going with the notion that the issue here is warranty procedures.

When a warranty claim is submitted, Stellantis desk jockeys open up their little book of preset accountant influenced procedures, send that back to the dealership, who then just act like friggin dumbass monkies and do. There is no opportunity to use common sense, no opportunity to ensure related parts of the system are also checked/repaired...

If you go back and look at tue last lot of photos i sent, you can see that with th, the block and transmission are shiny clean, everything else on the engine is as dirty as the day it enterred the Jeep worshop.

I am not used ro the idea that mechanics dont clean parts anymore. Is that how things really are these days? My dad was a mechanic...he would never have accepted that kind of nonsense with engine rebuilds/swaps.

I read the Australian Stellantis boss news release about how he is turning things around to win back customers. Given what i see in those images with the dirt and shit on my brand new engine, that guy is a delusional idiot. Those guys are so full of shit, i dont know how they are even allowed in public places...

Sponsored