Sunrider owners - MY mess-up, or theirs?

[ShadowsPapa]

Why on God's green earth would ya continue with that. I would go with something else

Something else?
There's another?

IF you mean the sunrider - it came with the Jeep - it's part of the package. Jeep owes me, and in turn it looks like just maybe, Bestop owes Jeep (and maybe some other owners who have the same fit issues)

This summer has been so bad so far, it's really a good time to have it off and the panels back in place - it's crazy weather here. We'd be fried in our own vehicle.

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[WILDHOBO]

The dealership had my truck 3 days (well, not 3 full days, but close).
Each day, STAR asked the techs for more pictures and more measurements.
Three days in a row - more photos, more measurements.
I have to assume that some of those were the sunriders (plural) and some were for the JT itself.

It's a two person job when you are 68, have a bad back and essential tremor bad enough to go with electrode implants. Yeah, it's a 2 person job in my case for a JLU. I can't lift it up to the roof.
I had to set it in the bed of the truck, climb in, cover the roof, then get it up onto the roof, and slide it in place across blankets and cardboard.
People forget that others get old and have some health issues that prevent lifting even a 40 pound thing up high.

As far as "the problem followed the Jeep" - please explain the many dozens, perhaps hundreds if they'd be honest, of other owners who have the same fit problems but have been told "it's normal, tuck that seal because it's the right thing to do" and they blindly follow it because some other Jeep owner said so on a video.
Me messing around trying to get that onto my wife's Jeep when the dealer has done 3 days worth of back and forth with STAR, STAR has kicked it to engineering - it seems it would be a bit of a waste even if it was so simple I could just lift it up there. (I could cover the side and top with blankets and slide it up there up and over the top, I suppose - but to what end? We KNOW many others have the same type of issue, STAR already kicked it up)

Check the threads out there, the videos - I'm not the only one. In fact even in just this thread, others have spoken up.
We have also found two different mount designs - so there's that.

If it was "just my Jeep" then why do others have the same problem?

You seem to believe Bestop has a perfect fit on all JTs and JL models from beginning to end and can't believe others have a problem - check out this guys "solution" - and there are many other reports of fit issues - if you look. It's not just me, my Jeep, not by a longshot. Anyone who has "tucked the seal" is ignoring a bad fit and following bad advice on youtube.

This is from a forum member - (I note the front of the sunrider also sits really low in the seal on his)

Proof it's not just my situation. His was so bad he GROUND the sunrider to make it fit!

Bill. I get it. You’re mad. But the dealer is going to take seven years to get an answer for you. Stop lecturing me about how hard it is, and how others have this issue as well. You certainly know how inept and slow dealers are. If you want to let them go through their “process” at a snails pace, that’s of course your choice and I have no problem with it. It’s your Jeep. But you keep complaining on the forum. So when I offer suggestions, you don’t want to try anything. STAR means zilch to me. It might as well mean “so they are ready” to finally agree to put it on some list of problems. I personally am not waiting for a dealer to troubleshoot something I and you can figure out faster. Get a friend to help you put it on the JLU and check if it works. If it does, note the differences and call the dealer and bestop. Although if you’ve lectured them as you have me, I doubt you’re at the top of their list anymore.

 

[Mister Lamb]

Your issue with the top sitting way low is unique though. I'm wondering if there's a variation in Mopar-based Sunrider compared to one purchased directly from Bestop. The Sunrider on my 2021 did not crush seals like this one has on my 2025 so there is in fact an issue with the seals. As reported by Bestop themselves in this very thread

 

[Main Line Willys]

With a laser pointer pointing at the floor making the red dot move....

Is it installer error. Did you set the screws correctly? Are the cables twisted?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But you keep complaining on the forum.

Because you and others keep talking seals - and - I'm looking for even more people who have the same issue. It keeps coming up again about seals, what changed, when did it change and I keep coming back - it's not the seals that are the problem! But it will happen again - someone will concentrate on the seals and what changed about the Jeep.

NO -
I'm not mad - I'm frustrated that people are hung up on the seal change and can't get past that. Seals don't determine how something bolts on, but people keep talking about the seals.
Frustrated because some can't see it's an issue with how it bolts on and instead wonder about the seals. Big difference.
There's no anger here, I'm not mad at or angry with anyone - not Jeep, not Bestop, not anyone.
I am frustrated that so many "don't get it", can't see beyond the word "seal" -they should instead concentrate o how it sinks into the windshield seal, and is down to the top edge of the door.

You say it will take forever - yes, it will. But honestly, more testing changes nothing, there's no way for me to shortcut the process by trying it on others.
Doesn't matter how it fits on the 23. Either way, it's a Jeep and Bestop problem to solve.

Let's say someone comes along and hey, we get it on the 23, and same thing - then what?
It still MUST go through Jeep and Bestop people. I've saved nothing and get nothing fixed any sooner! All I've done is duplicated what the dealership has done.

Say it fits perfectly on the 23 - then what? It still has to go through Jeep (and ultimately Bestop in the end)

Doesn't matter what I do now, however -
I'm looking for others with the issue - the more people who have this same fit issue, the more pressure there is as far as a solution. That ultimate solution will be a Bestop change - because they made it for Jeep.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Because you and others keep talking seals - and - I'm looking for even more people who have the same issue. It keeps coming up again about seals, what changed, when did it change and I keep coming back - it's not the seals that are the problem! But it will happen again - someone will concentrate on the seals and what changed about the Jeep.

NO -
I'm not mad - I'm frustrated that people are hung up on the seal change and can't get past that. Seals don't determine how something bolts on, but people keep talking about the seals.
Frustrated because some can't see it's an issue with how it bolts on and instead wonder about the seals. Big difference.
There's no anger here, I'm not mad at or angry with anyone - not Jeep, not Bestop, not anyone.
I am frustrated that so many "don't get it", can't see beyond the word "seal" -they should instead concentrate o how it sinks into the windshield seal, and is down to the top edge of the door.

You say it will take forever - yes, it will. But honestly, more testing changes nothing, there's no way for me to shortcut the process by trying it on others.
Doesn't matter how it fits on the 23. Either way, it's a Jeep and Bestop problem to solve.

Let's say someone comes along and hey, we get it on the 23, and same thing - then what?
It still MUST go through Jeep and Bestop people. I've saved nothing and get nothing fixed any sooner! All I've done is duplicated what the dealership has done.

Say it fits perfectly on the 23 - then what? It still has to go through Jeep (and ultimately Bestop in the end)

Doesn't matter what I do now, however -
I'm looking for others with the issue - the more people who have this same fit issue, the more pressure there is as far as a solution. That ultimate solution will be a Bestop change - because they made it for Jeep.

The windshield seal is the only one I’m actually talking about. But without trying it on another Jeep, you won’t know if the problem follows the top or the Jeep. So far it’s the Jeep. If the top has the same problem on another Jeep, keep looking at the top. If not, start looking at what’s different about your Jeep. Any number of things could be wrong. And it could possibly be an alignment issue on your JT. Have you checked to see how tight your windshield bolts are for example? Bad windshield alignment with the roll bar could cause wind noise and top misalignment. I’m genuinely trying to help. Whether you think so or not, I’m really quite a good troubleshooter. I’m terrible at most things. But that I’m good at.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Your issue with the top sitting way low is unique though. I'm wondering if there's a variation in Mopar-based Sunrider compared to one purchased directly from Bestop. The Sunrider on my 2021 did not crush seals like this one has on my 2025 so there is in fact an issue with the seals. As reported by Bestop themselves in this very thread

The seals are a symptom - not the issue.

So go ahead and remove those seals - you don't see how low the front of the sunrider's rail is vs. the rear? You don't see it sitting lower at the front than the rear?
This exact same seal setup has existed for 3 years - 22 through 25 (the TSB came out in 2021)

The freedom panels don't crush the seals, the sunrider is supposed to fit like they do.

You say Bestop is blaming the seals? But they say "don't tuck the seals", and they also say "that's not right" when they see my pictures.
How are they saying the problem is the seals.

If the sunrider fit properly, if the gap above the door was parallel and didn't disappear at the front (literally, no gap), they would clear the seals.

Again - 2022-2025 style mucket and drain, and it's a PERFECT FIT! This is a Sunrider on a Jeep with the same seals any 22 through 25 has, or any 2020 that has the TSB done - check this fit - PERFECT.
Same seals - but the problem is the seals?
Also look at how high the front edge of the sunrider sits on the windshield seal - way higher than mine.
This is from Bestop - and it sits WAAAY higher than mine does. You can tell by how the drip rail lines up with the small rib on the windshield seal- Mine sits BELOW that rib, almost 1/4" lower than this one.
So no, it's not a seal issue - this one is proof, and it's from Bestop themselves -

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The windshield seal is the only one I’m actually talking about. But without trying it on another Jeep, you won’t know if the problem follows the top or the Jeep. So far it’s the Jeep. If the top has the same problem on another Jeep, keep looking at the top. If not, start looking at what’s different about your Jeep. Any number of things could be wrong. And it could possibly be an alignment issue on your JT. Have you checked to see how tight your windshield bolts are for example? Bad windshield alignment with the roll bar could cause wind noise and top misalignment. I’m genuinely trying to help. Whether you think so or not, I’m really quite a good troubleshooter. I’m terrible at most things. But that I’m good at.

I know you well enough just via posts you aren't "one of those" so I never take it any other way.

Yeah, what's interesting is that all bolts everywhere fit right smack in the middle of the holes, and go in finger pressure only. No forcing anything. This must have been super-easy to build in Ohio because all bolts simply slip into the holes and thread in easily - windshield, etc. (easier to lay the windshield down to apply that t-rex decal and I STILL got it imperfectly aligned due to the damned tremor!)

I look at the photo (just posted above) and see how PERFECTLY that sunrider fits that Jeep - it's flawless, absolutely perfect. It sits on things exactly how the freedom panels would. And that photo came from - Bestop. All of them should fit that way. And I've got a couple of other pictures of them sitting just right and the seals are untouched, perfectly flat, perfectly aligned. So - perfect fitting units are out there.
What's the difference?
A couple of people have shown pictures showing differences in the sunrider mounting pads - those front pads that sit on the top of the cage and the front bolt goes up into it.
It's a design change - or design difference. Still a question.

As far as the windshield seal - along the top where the panels seal against - that area shouldn't matter because it only comes into play with the sunrider closed, and when it's closed on mine, the front edge really sits down deep into that top seal.
With it open, there's still the horrible fit of the side rails where it actually bolts to the Jeep.
The issue is - where the thing bolts to the Jeep's structure. If that fit right, then when the sunrider was closed, it wouldn't come down so far into the front windshield seal.

 

[WILDHOBO]

The seals are a symptom - not the issue.

So go ahead and remove those seals - you don't see how low the front of the sunrider's rail is vs. the rear? You don't see it sitting lower at the front than the rear?
This exact same seal setup has existed for 3 years - 22 through 25 (the TSB came out in 2021)

The freedom panels don't crush the seals, the sunrider is supposed to fit like they do.

You say Bestop is blaming the seals? But they say "don't tuck the seals", and they also say "that's not right" when they see my pictures.
How are they saying the problem is the seals.

If the sunrider fit properly, if the gap above the door was parallel and didn't disappear at the front (literally, no gap), they would clear the seals.

Again - 2022-2025 style mucket and drain, and it's a PERFECT FIT! This is a Sunrider on a Jeep with the same seals any 22 through 25 has, or any 2020 that has the TSB done - check this fit - PERFECT.
Same seals - but the problem is the seals?
Also look at how high the front edge of the sunrider sits on the windshield seal - way higher than mine.
This is from Bestop - and it sits WAAAY higher than mine does. You can tell by how the drip rail lines up with the small rib on the windshield seal- Mine sits BELOW that rib, almost 1/4" lower than this one.
So no, it's not a seal issue - this one is proof, and it's from Bestop themselves -

I’m genuinely not joking when I say this. Please drive southwest. I will help you fix this. If I didn’t have a family and a job, I’d drive to you with your permission, to help. I’m confident we can figure this out. Very.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I know you well enough just via posts you aren't "one of those" so I never take it any other way.

Yeah, what's interesting is that all bolts everywhere fit right smack in the middle of the holes, and go in finger pressure only. No forcing anything. This must have been super-easy to build in Ohio because all bolts simply slip into the holes and thread in easily - windshield, etc. (easier to lay the windshield down to apply that t-rex decal and I STILL got it imperfectly aligned due to the damned tremor!)

I look at the photo (just posted above) and see how PERFECTLY that sunrider fits that Jeep - it's flawless, absolutely perfect. It sits on things exactly how the freedom panels would. And that photo came from - Bestop. All of them should fit that way. And I've got a couple of other pictures of them sitting just right and the seals are untouched, perfectly flat, perfectly aligned. So - perfect fitting units are out there.
What's the difference?
A couple of people have shown pictures showing differences in the sunrider mounting pads - those front pads that sit on the top of the cage and the front bolt goes up into it.
It's a design change - or design difference. Still a question.

As far as the windshield seal - along the top where the panels seal against - that area shouldn't matter because it only comes into play with the sunrider closed, and when it's closed on mine, the front edge really sits down deep into that top seal.
With it open, there's still the horrible fit of the side rails where it actually bolts to the Jeep.
The issue is - where the thing bolts to the Jeep's structure. If that fit right, then when the sunrider was closed, it wouldn't come down so far into the front windshield seal.

Ok. Do you have any pictures of the bottom of the sunrider rails? I’ll happily remove mind and take comparison pictures.

 

[Stan H]

Because you and others keep talking seals - and - I'm looking for even more people who have the same issue. It keeps coming up again about seals, what changed, when did it change and I keep coming back - it's not the seals that are the problem! But it will happen again - someone will concentrate on the seals and what changed about the Jeep.

NO -
I'm not mad - I'm frustrated that people are hung up on the seal change and can't get past that. Seals don't determine how something bolts on, but people keep talking about the seals.
Frustrated because some can't see it's an issue with how it bolts on and instead wonder about the seals. Big difference.
There's no anger here, I'm not mad at or angry with anyone - not Jeep, not Bestop, not anyone.
I am frustrated that so many "don't get it", can't see beyond the word "seal" -they should instead concentrate o how it sinks into the windshield seal, and is down to the top edge of the door.

You say it will take forever - yes, it will. But honestly, more testing changes nothing, there's no way for me to shortcut the process by trying it on others.
Doesn't matter how it fits on the 23. Either way, it's a Jeep and Bestop problem to solve.

Let's say someone comes along and hey, we get it on the 23, and same thing - then what?
It still MUST go through Jeep and Bestop people. I've saved nothing and get nothing fixed any sooner! All I've done is duplicated what the dealership has done.

Say it fits perfectly on the 23 - then what? It still has to go through Jeep (and ultimately Bestop in the end)

Doesn't matter what I do now, however -
I'm looking for others with the issue - the more people who have this same fit issue, the more pressure there is as far as a solution. That ultimate solution will be a Bestop change - because they made it for Jeep.

Has anyone approached BESTOP ??
MAYBE it can be resolved for you through their end .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ok. Do you have any pictures of the bottom of the sunrider rails? I’ll happily remove mind and take comparison pictures.

Hmmm, don't think you'll have to actually remove - maybe just "open" it?

I don't have pics of the bottom - but since it's off and laying on the floor, that could be easy to get.
I've got these -

This shows the other style - someone else posted this one -

Has anyone approached BESTOP ??
MAYBE it can be resolved for you through their end .

The final resolution will have to come from them since it's their patented product, they conceived, developed, engineered and had it made.
Unless Jeep actually bought the rights to manufacture it from them (and no one knows) it's totally Bestop.
IF - again we don't know - IF Jeep bought the rights, licensed the rights to make it and sell it through their dealerships and as a factory option, then it's a Jeep problem.
(the way FCA licensed the rights to build the ZF transmission).
But we don't know who makes it, if Jeep licensed it, or if it's all Bestop.
In any case it's their baby - their invention, design and so on. They hold the rights in any case.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Okee-dokee-

The way these attach, there's no adjustment. The clamp sits above the sunrider's drip rails and any adjustment would only make things worse - you'd raise this clamp, but in the process LOWER the sunrider itself, so there's no fix here. Otherwise I'd have happily loosened screws and inserted washers and called it good.

By the way - this area is very very rough - sharp, even.
Minor thing, but it rubs on things and literally cuts. It's on both sides, like some part of their molding process doesn't get attention.
If I end up with a good one that fits good - that will get filed and smoothed for sure. Not a "gripe" but an attention to finish detail thing.

Sure glad we FINALLY after years of promised, finally got some broadband internet out here! (well, not by the goodwill of the company, but a government grant). The company has a monopoly on all internet in the area and refused to come out here until someone waved big bucks in their face.
But the company suffers frequent and long-term outages, so there is that...........

 

[JT1]

Hmmm, don't think you'll have to actually remove - maybe just "open" it?

I don't have pics of the bottom - but since it's off and laying on the floor, that could be easy to get.
I've got these -

This shows the other style - someone else posted this one -

The final resolution will have to come from them since it's their patented product, they conceived, developed, engineered and had it made.
Unless Jeep actually bought the rights to manufacture it from them (and no one knows) it's totally Bestop.
IF - again we don't know - IF Jeep bought the rights, licensed the rights to make it and sell it through their dealerships and as a factory option, then it's a Jeep problem.
(the way FCA licensed the rights to build the ZF transmission).
But we don't know who makes it, if Jeep licensed it, or if it's all Bestop.
In any case it's their baby - their invention, design and so on. They hold the rights in any case.

Bill, I know yours sits really low at the front, but yours is high at the back too when it's installed, correct?

If there was a small captive spacer that surrounded the front mounting bolt, think hard rubber 3/16 thick washer, would that lift up the front enough to clear the seals and still let it drop enough to latch?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Bill, I know yours sits really low at the front, but yours is high at the back too when it's installed, correct?

Yes, and oddly, mostly on the right side. The left is up a bit in the back, but not enough to really bother with. The right rear is really up there.

If there was a small captive spacer that surrounded the front mounting bolt, think hard rubber 3/16 thick washer, would that lift up the front enough to clear the seals and still let it drop enough to latch?

That was actually an idea to test, except the way that front mount is designed, if you lift that front mounting pad up, then the lower clamp part can't swing down to get a bolt through.
there's an upper and a lower part of the front mount, but not the rear mount.
This part here would no longer reach (I tried to hold up the sunrider a bit and see if this would still go around the bottom of the bar, and it wouldn't)

By the way - this is clipped from a youtube video and it shows another perfectly fine fitting sunrider on a later model with the new style rain diversion parts -

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