Thoughts on steering issue

[DanJT]

I set my pinion angle at 0 which in turn has my caster at 6 and is smooth sailing.

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[Rubiwoo]

7 can cause "caster wobble" in some cases. That seems too high for my experiences. For me, personally, 6 would be my top end.

A summary of too much caster from the internet -
.......and a less responsive or even unstable feel during cornering and braking. While positive caster improves straight-line stability and self-centering, excessive amounts can negatively impact handling.
Too much caster can lead to steering vibrations or "shimmy,"

I've tried to explain that here - but some believe more is always better, and increasing caster can resolve a shimmy or even DW - and yet, it can actually CAUSE it (plus the feeling of instability)

I'm not sure why Rusty's installation instructions recommends 7, but hopefully this helps others down the road

 

[RudeJeepin]

“Toe in” means the front of both tires are closer together than the back of the tires.

No, really.

The question was, where did he measure from. I've seen some guys measure at the rims, some guys measure at the outer edge of the tires.
1/8" toe measured at the wheels would be way too much toe in. 1/8" measured at the outside of the tires would be just about right. Maybe even slightly under ideal, IMO.
But what do I know. Obviously I don't even know what "toe in" is, you had to explain it to me.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

No, really.

The question was, where did he measure from. I've seen some guys measure at the rims, some guys measure at the outer edge of the tires.
1/8" toe measured at the wheels would be way too much toe in. 1/8" measured at the outside of the tires would be just about right. Maybe even slightly under ideal, IMO.
But what do I know. Obviously I don't even know what "toe in" is, you had to explain it to me.

I misread your question. Sorry.

 

[The Yeti]

Yes, but where is the 1/8" toe in measured at?

This is exactly what I thought the first time I made a set of "alignment bars" or whatever they might be called to check and set my toe with. I've never found an answer yet. I think this makes sense where it could vary and be somewhat dependent on the backspacing of your particular wheel. Curious on this as it was an after thought and never came to my mind until I realized the set I made were made based on the angle I had and not made with a specific spec on length in mind. These bars would be measured at the hubs, but length would make a difference on the measurement at1/8" or whatever your spec might be.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think this makes sense where it could vary and be somewhat dependent on the backspacing of your particular wheel.

Why would the wheel spacing matter? The angles would still be the same, just more distance.
Equipment I used over the years measured at the rim of the wheel.
One reason today's specs are given as an angle in degrees is because if you use the tire's tread, the toe-in or out will vary depending on the tire diameter.
Measuring at the wheel, this can't happen, using the angle spec, this can't happen.

I know DIYers usually measure at the tire tread, but it's not how it's been done historically, and will vary with tire size changes.

However, wheel spacers, backspacing, offset and so on can't change toe measurements.

 

[The Yeti]

I guess I had two thoughts in one in my mind there. You're right the backspacing wouldnt have an effect on the toe setting. It may however have an effect on the tracking/steering handling characteristics of the vehicle overall. I had used a home made alignment tool in the past for toe that was basically 2 pieces of squaretubing, 1 fittong insidethe other with a set screw. You could put both ends to the inside edge of the lip of your rim then move it to the front making sure you are center height up each time and get it pretty damn close. This was on a different vehicle but same deal

 

[Bbannongmu]

You could try the Synergy or Steer Smarts track bar and sector shaft brace, it worked for me and many others in the forums!

 

[DanJT]

When I checked mine, I used the rims edge. It was dead set the exact same measurement and no issues so I left it alone!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It may however have an effect on the tracking/steering handling characteristics of the vehicle

Absolutely - it can change how toe has to be set, cause brake steer, and WOBBLE.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Quick update:
- changed steering stabilizer from medium to soft. No change
- changed caster from 7 to 6. Drives much better.
- kept stabilizer set to soft

FYI: Rusty's steering components suggests 7 degrees caster is recommended. I didn't change it when switching to Steer Smarts. 6 degrees for me seems to have resolved my wandering issue

Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions

I have a question for you. I have the same front springs you do. I cannot for the life of me get a decent pinion angle while getting even close to 6 degrees of caster. Are you running a Dana 44 housing? If so, how did you succeed at this?

 

[WILDHOBO]

I set my pinion angle at 0 which in turn has my caster at 6 and is smooth sailing.

How?! I genuinely want to know. I adjusted my control arms to eliminate spring bow, but my caster is almost zero, and my pinion angle is terrible, like 13 degrees.

 

[Rubiwoo]

I have a question for you. I have the same front springs you do. I cannot for the life of me get a decent pinion angle while getting even close to 6 degrees of caster. Are you running a Dana 44 housing? If so, how did you succeed at this?

Adjusted my upper and lower control arms. Yes, D44

 

[WILDHOBO]

Adjusted my upper and lower control arms. Yes, D44

I get that. I was looking for more specifics, like lengths. When I installed those springs super recently, I had some expected spring bow having gone bigger and different from the 3.5” hd springs I had. I looked at the lower spring perch angle and corrected slightly to eliminate it. But my caster is now gone. I’m barely at 1 degree of caster and I can definitely feel it. I just put 1000 miles or so on it. Drives “safely”, for a Jeep, But it used to drive on rails.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

How?! I genuinely want to know. I adjusted my control arms to eliminate spring bow, but my caster is almost zero, and my pinion angle is terrible, like 13 degrees.

Is the front axle too far forward or backward, causing bow?

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