2020 Gladiator Towing (Overland)

[gwpeaks]

The payload capacity has been the hardest part of the search for a camper. For my Overland, according to the sticker inside the door frame, the max payload is 5800lbs. The GCVWR is 11,100lbs so I think we will be ok there. The hitch weight on the camper we want is 465lbs and with the family and dogs in the truck we are right at the 5800lb mark counting the full hitch weight. I was told that using a weight distribution hitch I would have some wiggle room there but I get varying responses when I inquire with folks. I will be getting the WDH regardless though.

For us, we will likely only go on 2 or 3 day trips max and will never fill the tanks. In the future that may change but right now the kids are little so we only plan to visit campgrounds with full hookups.

As I've figured it, 80% should be around 4800lbs. so with this camper having a dry weight of 4500lbs I'm hoping we can load up 400 -450lbs of stuff and still be ok. I've never hauled a travel trailer or even camped in one so any insight is MUCH appreciated. I get better info here than at any of the 20 dealerships we've visited in recent weeks.

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[ShadowsPapa]

DEFINITELY use a weight distributing hitch setup otherwise with that tongue weight an Overland will squat bad. Mine dropped a huge amount just with 300-400 pounds on the hitch. It handled weird with 300 pounds of concrete in the back end up against the tail gate.
I can't with my car hauler - aluminum trailers can't use that type hitch. The trailer frame and tongue won't deal with them.

There's a couple of existing threads here that deal in great detail about trailer weight, GVW, axle weight, payload and so on. Payload is the weight on the truck itself - not what's in the trailer. Payload is the tongue weight, the driver and passengers, anything that's in the box, a suitcase in the back seat, your 8 track tapes in the box in the back seat, whatever. It's the weight you put in or on the truck - not what you pull.

The gross vehicle weight rating, GVWR is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

Then there's gross combined weight rating - that's like the picture shows, the weight of your truck, YOU, the trailer, water in the trailer, battery for the trailer, LP tank, food, whatever. It's what the whole shootin' match weighs when you hit the road loaded.
TW here is TONGUE WEIGHT
Payload is the weight the truck is carrying - you, luggage, kids, dog, rifles, paddles for the boat, trolling motor if in the back of the truck, bucket of worms, etc.
Note the red arrows in the GAWR - gross AXLE weight rating - the load on the axles.
Gross trailer weight is the loaded trailer it can haul- weight of the trailer empty, plus water, your waste water, food, ice, bedding/sheets/pillows, mouse traps, whatever is in the camper plus the weight of the camper.

This site does a good job explaining and untwisting all the abbreviations, acronyms, whatever -
https://www.curtmfg.com/towing-capacity

 

[tmcarr]

The payload capacity has been the hardest part of the search for a camper. For my Overland, according to the sticker inside the door frame, the max payload is 5800lbs. The GCVWR is 11,100lbs so I think we will be ok there. The hitch weight on the camper we want is 465lbs and with the family and dogs in the truck we are right at the 5800lb mark counting the full hitch weight. I was told that using a weight distribution hitch I would have some wiggle room there but I get varying responses when I inquire with folks. I will be getting the WDH regardless though.

For us, we will likely only go on 2 or 3 day trips max and will never fill the tanks. In the future that may change but right now the kids are little so we only plan to visit campgrounds with full hookups.

As I've figured it, 80% should be around 4800lbs. so with this camper having a dry weight of 4500lbs I'm hoping we can load up 400 -450lbs of stuff and still be ok. I've never hauled a travel trailer or even camped in one so any insight is MUCH appreciated. I get better info here than at any of the 20 dealerships we've visited in recent weeks.

Dealerships sometimes give advise slanted to selling something. The folks here are less biased, but none the less opinionated (a good thing). You still have to weed though the information and make the best decision you can.
I assume you meant the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR is 5800#'s. The payload is much less (GVWR - Curb weight of vehicle). A weight distributing hitch will allow you to move a small amount of weight from your tow vehicle's rear axle to the tow vehicle's front axle and the trailer axle(s). So if you are heavy on the drive axle and light on the steering axle, WDH can help to transfer some of the drive axle weight both forward to the steer axle and it can also move some of the 5800#s to the trailer axle. This is where the CAT scales come in handy, you can change up the WDH tension and see how it effects axle weights. CAT, in my area, charges $12 for the first weight and either $2 or $4 for "re-weigh" within the same day.

 

[gwpeaks]

DEFINITELY use a weight distributing hitch setup otherwise with that tongue weight an Overland will squat bad. Mine dropped a huge amount just with 300-400 pounds on the hitch. It handled weird with 300 pounds of concrete in the back end up against the tail gate.
I can't with my car hauler - aluminum trailers can't use that type hitch. The trailer frame and tongue won't deal with them.

There's a couple of existing threads here that deal in great detail about trailer weight, GVW, axle weight, payload and so on. Payload is the weight on the truck itself - not what's in the trailer. Payload is the tongue weight, the driver and passengers, anything that's in the box, a suitcase in the back seat, your 8 track tapes in the box in the back seat, whatever. It's the weight you put in or on the truck - not what you pull.

The gross vehicle weight rating, GVWR is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

Then there's gross combined weight rating - that's like the picture shows, the weight of your truck, YOU, the trailer, water in the trailer, battery for the trailer, LP tank, food, whatever. It's what the whole shootin' match weighs when you hit the road loaded.
TW here is TONGUE WEIGHT
Payload is the weight the truck is carrying - you, luggage, kids, dog, rifles, paddles for the boat, trolling motor if in the back of the truck, bucket of worms, etc.
Note the red arrows in the GAWR - gross AXLE weight rating - the load on the axles.
Gross trailer weight is the loaded trailer it can haul- weight of the trailer empty, plus water, your waste water, food, ice, bedding/sheets/pillows, mouse traps, whatever is in the camper plus the weight of the camper.

This site does a good job explaining and untwisting all the abbreviations, acronyms, whatever -
https://www.curtmfg.com/towing-capacity

DEFINITELY use a weight distributing hitch setup otherwise with that tongue weight an Overland will squat bad. Mine dropped a huge amount just with 300-400 pounds on the hitch. It handled weird with 300 pounds of concrete in the back end up against the tail gate.
I can't with my car hauler - aluminum trailers can't use that type hitch. The trailer frame and tongue won't deal with them.

There's a couple of existing threads here that deal in great detail about trailer weight, GVW, axle weight, payload and so on. Payload is the weight on the truck itself - not what's in the trailer. Payload is the tongue weight, the driver and passengers, anything that's in the box, a suitcase in the back seat, your 8 track tapes in the box in the back seat, whatever. It's the weight you put in or on the truck - not what you pull.

The gross vehicle weight rating, GVWR is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

Then there's gross combined weight rating - that's like the picture shows, the weight of your truck, YOU, the trailer, water in the trailer, battery for the trailer, LP tank, food, whatever. It's what the whole shootin' match weighs when you hit the road loaded.
TW here is TONGUE WEIGHT
Payload is the weight the truck is carrying - you, luggage, kids, dog, rifles, paddles for the boat, trolling motor if in the back of the truck, bucket of worms, etc.
Note the red arrows in the GAWR - gross AXLE weight rating - the load on the axles.
Gross trailer weight is the loaded trailer it can haul- weight of the trailer empty, plus water, your waste water, food, ice, bedding/sheets/pillows, mouse traps, whatever is in the camper plus the weight of the camper.

This site does a good job explaining and untwisting all the abbreviations, acronyms, whatever -
https://www.curtmfg.com/towing-capacity

Thanks. I read through the posts a while back (along with 10000 other sites and Youtube videos). I've been adding the weight of all passengers and cargo in the truck and adding the 465lbs to the total and trying to stay within the parameters of the sticker on the door frame. Per the sticker, the weight should not exceed 1078lbs total. I was told that the WDH hitch would cut the total hitch weight in half and if that's true than we should be under the 1078lb total. If it isn't true than we will be right at it in a year or so when the kids gain some pounds. Eventually I may trade for a Rubicon but for now I can't (happy with the Overland though).

My main goal is to make sure everything is safe and legal so my family isn't at risk.

 

[tmcarr]

Excellent graphic Papa. A picture IS worth a thousand words.

 

[gwpeaks]

Dealerships sometimes give advise slanted to selling something. The folks here are less biased, but none the less opinionated (a good thing). You still have to weed though the information and make the best decision you can.
I assume you meant the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR is 5800#'s. The payload is much less (GVWR - Curb weight of vehicle). A weight distributing hitch will allow you to move a small amount of weight from your tow vehicle's rear axle to the tow vehicle's front axle and the trailer axle(s). So if you are heavy on the drive axle and light on the steering axle, WDH can help to transfer some of the drive axle weight both forward to the steer axle and it can also move some of the 5800#s to the trailer axle. This is where the CAT scales come in handy, you can change up the WDH tension and see how it effects axle weights. CAT, in my area, charges $12 for the first weight and either $2 or $4 for "re-weigh" within the same day.

Thanks, you definitely seem knowledgable. In your opinion, am I stretching it pulling a 4500 travel trailer that has a 465lb hitch weight without filling the tanks and using a WDH? We have a different trailer reserved for September that weighs 4000lb but we like the heavier MUCH more. We are scheduled to go look and possibly get it Wednesday of this week. Obviously the dealership doesn't seem to think so but I trust no one.

 

[tmcarr]

Thanks. I read through the posts a while back (along with 10000 other sites and Youtube videos). I've been adding the weight of all passengers and cargo in the truck and adding the 465lbs to the total and trying to stay within the parameters of the sticker on the door frame. Per the sticker, the weight should not exceed 1078lbs total. I was told that the WDH hitch would cut the total hitch weight in half and if that's true than we should be under the 1078lb total. If it isn't true than we will be right at it in a year or so when the kids gain some pounds. Eventually I may trade for a Rubicon but for now I can't (happy with the Overland though).

My main goal is to make sure everything is safe and legal so my family isn't at risk.

WDH will decrease your tongue weight. But part of it is shifted to the steer axle which still has to be calculated in the GVWR. You also don't want to crank the tension too high that you have too little tongue weight, things can get squirrelly that way as well.

 

[tmcarr]

Thanks, you definitely seem knowledgable. In your opinion, am I stretching it pulling a 4500 travel trailer that has a 465lb hitch weight without filling the tanks and using a WDH? We have a different trailer reserved for September that weighs 4000lb but we like the heavier MUCH more. We are scheduled to go look and possibly get it Wednesday of this week. Obviously the dealership doesn't seem to think so but I trust no one.

Sorry, I may have read this wrong but when you say; "without filling the tanks and using a WDH", are you saying not filling the tanks but "yes" using a WDH or not using a WDH? I personally would not tow a 4500# TT without a WDH with a Gladiator. You could get by without one on a ton truck.
You may have been saying without filling tanks but using a WDH. Then I would say you should be fine. I say that only because with either TT you seem to be at or under the maximum limits set forth by Jeep and whichever government body regulates how they measure maximum weights. There are those here and other places that have towed for years over weight without issues, I do not condone that.
But if you are under all maximums you should be safe, that's why the list them. That being said, your performance, stopping distance handling in crosswinds will all be affected more as you creep upon the maximum number. The more you can stay under the maximum, the less strenuous your driving experience will be.
If by "reserved" you mean you are renting a 4000# trailer in September, I think this is a very good decision. You will be able to see for yourself what your comfort rating is towing 4000#s. You may find you are okay with moving to 4500#, or you may find you would be more comfortable at 3500#s. There are lots of lighter weight options these days.
Again, just so I'm clear, first time towing and it being 4000#'s I think a WDH is an absolute. I'm guessing the rental place may require it.
Enjoy your trip and PM me any time if you have any specific questions I can help you with. The only way I can pay back the poor people that I have aggravated in the past is to possibly help someone else.

 

[gwpeaks]

Sorry, I may have read this wrong but when you say; "without filling the tanks and using a WDH", are you saying not filling the tanks but "yes" using a WDH or not using a WDH? I personally would not tow a 4500# TT without a WDH with a Gladiator. You could get by without one on a ton truck.
You may have been saying without filling tanks but using a WDH. Then I would say you should be fine. I say that only because with either TT you seem to be at or under the maximum limits set forth by Jeep and whichever government body regulates how they measure maximum weights. There are those here and other places that have towed for years over weight without issues, I do not condone that.
But if you are under all maximums you should be safe, that's why the list them. That being said, your performance, stopping distance handling in crosswinds will all be affected more as you creep upon the maximum number. The more you can stay under the maximum, the less strenuous your driving experience will be.
If by "reserved" you mean you are renting a 4000# trailer in September, I think this is a very good decision. You will be able to see for yourself what your comfort rating is towing 4000#s. You may find you are okay with moving to 4500#, or you may find you would be more comfortable at 3500#s. There are lots of lighter weight options these days.
Again, just so I'm clear, first time towing and it being 4000#'s I think a WDH is an absolute. I'm guessing the rental place may require it.
Enjoy your trip and PM me any time if you have any specific questions I can help you with. The only way I can pay back the poor people that I have aggravated in the past is to possibly help someone else.

Thanks. I'll be using a WDH but not filling the water tanks on the camper. I should be under all the limits but cutting in close on payload as the kids grow (one is only 10 months/20lbs). Unfortunately by "reserved" I mean we paid a deposit before the dealership gets the trailer so they won't sell it before we can get it. The camper/RV market for anything under 5000lbs that has bunks is utterly insane right now. We've found 2 in our entire state and they were both sold within 48 hours.

I think we will probably pull the trigger on 4500lb unit. My Overland is leased for the next three years but then I can change to a Rubicon or Max Tow if necessary.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

WDH will decrease your tongue weight. But part of it is shifted to the steer axle which still has to be calculated in the GVWR. You also don't want to crank the tension too high that you have too little tongue weight, things can get squirrelly that way as well.

I've seen guys have their trailers swinging all over the place because they loaded the trailer back-heavy as they were afraid of that tongue weight. Not enough is not wise - like you said, things get squirrely, too much is not good for other reasons.

I think it's recommended 10% of the trailer weight be tongue weight - up to a certain trailer weight, or is that not correct?

My camper had a weight distributing hitch and sway control - the friction sort (like a brake pad against a bar) - towed like a dream but I did really over-tax the Cherokee I had years ago, boiled the transmission fluid. BAD BAD, shame on me, a mechanic, transmission person, should know better! Good thing none of my customers saw me pulled over checking where the transmission fluid and smoke was coming from.

The car haulers I've never ever had sway, it's just never happened, ever, at all. But they are long and the axles sit back under the trailer.

Speaking of pulling campers - a co-worker was big on his camping trips - he had a pretty good sized trailer and pulled it behind a very capable Ford truck. He often drove 3/4-1 ton trucks, at times he owned duallys. He had a new Ford truck pulling a camper he'd owned for a little while and he'd get up to speed and that thing would sway like nobody's business. He had all the proper hitch and equipment. His other trucks never did that. The camper place checked it all over, he was doing everything right. Ford dealer blamed the tires, so he spent big bucks on a tire upgrade. Same thing. He made some other expensive changes to the truck - same thing. Dealer blamed him, his hitch, his camper, everything he owned. So he pulled it behind another truck - NO ISSUES. Back to his truck - sway like crazy, couldn't control it at interstate speed.
He got the regional Ford rep involved, they went for a ride - the rep agreed - this ain't right!
So they replaced a bunch of suspension parts - same problem. Next some steering parts - same problem.
He ended up getting rid of the truck - Ford could never figure it out.

 

[tmcarr]

Very good advise Papa, back heavy or front heavy both effect tongue weight. Yes, 10% is always the number I've heard and used. I try not to go below 10%, had a buddy cross a rough bridge joint on an Interstate at 70mph pulling a trailer with a small excavator, improperly loaded rear heavy, the bounce caused the drive axle of truck to lift from road...needless to say it went real bad. Truck, trailer, excavator; total loss. No serious personal injuries though.
I also never exceed 15%, 10-12 is my sweet-spot, if possible.
Lots of things affect towing. My experience is a tandem trailer is much less prone to sway than a single axle trailer. Tire pressure is also an issue...I may get a lot of feedback on this one, but my 2018 JLUS towing a 3100# TT had much less sway from big trucks and crosswinds when the tire pressure was at 36#'s than the 41#'s from factory. Don't know why, can't explain; C-rated stock Bridgestone tires, same trailer, same hitch, same WDH tension, same everything. Not scientific, just my experience.
I've used the friction-style sway devices in the past with very good experiences. With the JL and the 3100# Jayco Hummingbird 16MRB, I went with an Andersen WDH with built-in sway control. I have been very pleased with it.
I may also get some forum-flack for this one as well, but in the JL I used Air-Ride inside-the-coil spring air bags. (I also just purchased a new set for the JT that I will be installing on Friday) I use the air bags not to increase the load carrying capacity, but just to bring the TV back to stock height. Even with WDH the JL would squat about an inch when hitched to TT. I aired the bags to 35psi, (this would raise the rear about 1.5" before I hitched the trailer) then i would follow the proper WDH procedures and when I was finished, the JL would be at exactly stock ride height. No squatted look, no readjusting headlights to keep from blinding oncoming motorists.
Also, Rancho just released (last Thursday) their RS9000xl adjustable shocks for the rear of the JT. I have had these on the last four trucks I have owned (Silverado's 2500's and 3500's). I dial them down for unburdened, dial them up when loaded, either towing or hauling. Always helped with Brand X trucks waiting to see how they work with JT.
Sorry for being long-winded. I'm done now. Somebody else's turn.

 

[gwpeaks]

Very good advise Papa, back heavy or front heavy both effect tongue weight. Yes, 10% is always the number I've heard and used. I try not to go below 10%, had a buddy cross a rough bridge joint on an Interstate at 70mph pulling a trailer with a small excavator, improperly loaded rear heavy, the bounce caused the drive axle of truck to lift from road...needless to say it went real bad. Truck, trailer, excavator; total loss. No serious personal injuries though.
I also never exceed 15%, 10-12 is my sweet-spot, if possible.
Lots of things affect towing. My experience is a tandem trailer is much less prone to sway than a single axle trailer. Tire pressure is also an issue...I may get a lot of feedback on this one, but my 2018 JLUS towing a 3100# TT had much less sway from big trucks and crosswinds when the tire pressure was at 36#'s than the 41#'s from factory. Don't know why, can't explain; C-rated stock Bridgestone tires, same trailer, same hitch, same WDH tension, same everything. Not scientific, just my experience.
I've used the friction-style sway devices in the past with very good experiences. With the JL and the 3100# Jayco Hummingbird 16MRB, I went with an Andersen WDH with built-in sway control. I have been very pleased with it.
I may also get some forum-flack for this one as well, but in the JL I used Air-Ride inside-the-coil spring air bags. (I also just purchased a new set for the JT that I will be installing on Friday) I use the air bags not to increase the load carrying capacity, but just to bring the TV back to stock height. Even with WDH the JL would squat about an inch when hitched to TT. I aired the bags to 35psi, (this would raise the rear about 1.5" before I hitched the trailer) then i would follow the proper WDH procedures and when I was finished, the JL would be at exactly stock ride height. No squatted look, no readjusting headlights to keep from blinding oncoming motorists.
Also, Rancho just released (last Thursday) their RS9000xl adjustable shocks for the rear of the JT. I have had these on the last four trucks I have owned (Silverado's 2500's and 3500's). I dial them down for unburdened, dial them up when loaded, either towing or hauling. Always helped with Brand X trucks waiting to see how they work with JT.
Sorry for being long-winded. I'm done now. Somebody else's turn.

This is probably a stupid question but I'm totally new to all of this. When you say 10%, am I correct that if the trailer is 4500lbs dry, and we load 400lbs into it, 490lbs needs to be applied to the hitch weight? When applied, I need to add 490lbs to the overall weight in the truck itself (passengers and cargo)?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is probably a stupid question but I'm totally new to all of this. When you say 10%, am I correct that if the trailer is 4500lbs dry, and we load 400lbs into it, 490lbs needs to be applied to the hitch weight? When applied, I need to add 490lbs to the overall weight in the truck itself (passengers and cargo)?

The tongue of the trailer should way about 10% of the total loaded trailer weight.
If the trailer loaded is 4900 then the tongue weight should be 10% or 490 pounds.

There are trailer tongue scales, hitches that do that for you, and you can use scales like someone suggested - the CAT scales. There's a nominal cost but it's a good way to get yourself acquainted with things so you can more easily judge in the future.
I have it easy with a car hauler - I load up the car and position it until I have the right weight on the tongue, then mark my trailer, I do that for each car (one is pretty short 4x4 car with decent weight distribution front to back, the other is a LONG car with a lot of its weight up front)

Anyway, yeah, if the trailer was loaded, you want the tongue to weigh 490 pounds if the trailer total is 4900. (in other words, if you could lift 490 pounds, that the effort it would take you to lift it)

 

[gwpeaks]

The tongue of the trailer should way about 10% of the total loaded trailer weight.
If the trailer loaded is 4900 then the tongue weight should be 10% or 490 pounds.

There are trailer tongue scales, hitches that do that for you, and you can use scales like someone suggested - the CAT scales. There's a nominal cost but it's a good way to get yourself acquainted with things so you can more easily judge in the future.
I have it easy with a car hauler - I load up the car and position it until I have the right weight on the tongue, then mark my trailer, I do that for each car (one is pretty short 4x4 car with decent weight distribution front to back, the other is a LONG car with a lot of its weight up front)

Anyway, yeah, if the trailer was loaded, you want the tongue to weigh 490 pounds if the trailer total is 4900. (in other words, if you could lift 490 pounds, that the effort it would take you to lift it)

Ugh. That puts a damper on things. We would be right at the max payload in that scenario. Should have gotten a Rubicon....

 

[bjohnsonmn]

Piling on your thread a little, but adding a new question to the mix:

I am in a similar scenario, but have not picked the travel trailer yet.

Me: 2020JT Rubicon, 1112 Cargo Capacity on the sticker, 7000#/700# rated towing weights.

I am lifting theJT (2.5" Teraflex with fully adjustable control arms), going to 315/70R17 BFG KO2's (Truck weight (C) so long as the capacities match the door jam sticker weight capacity), I'm either putting the heavier RockHard belly skids or the lighter Arctec (only add 10# net). Keeping the stock shocks (advised trail and towing reports are they match well with this lift with the spacer in the front) Retaining the rear coils (The TF 2.5" uses a small spacer in the rear coils).

Long story short: We are planning on long distance tows, about 6 times per year. Likely only 2-4runs over mountain passes (I-70, I-90) each year, 1-2 real wheeling trips each year (CO Front Range, Moab).

Essentially, I figure our starting weights are:

Passengers + must have in cab items: 390# (That's figuring in a lot of stuff)
Full Fuel: 139#
Minimum "Maximum" Cargo on Cab: 529#
Net GVW remaining: 583#

583# - 10% of 450# of crap (We travel light, but I would move recovery gear to the trailer to reduce GVW of those items by 90%) = 538#

538# - Additional weight of armor (25# net) = 513# Max on the road Tongue Weight.

Does that all check? If it does, at that point with the appropriately set weight distribution hitch, tire inflation, brake settings, etc. would that be a comfortable tow? Figuring that we would likely be under 5000# total weight of the trailer with all of the model travel trailers we are looking at.

OR, am I being ultra conservative on this and pushing the loaded tongue weight to 550# would not cause issues for safety or comfort.

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